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This run aims for the fastest completion time in 1p very hard mode. I used the characther yoshi, instead of the common choice , fox. I Tas'ed two test runs before this one and i got to the conclusion that yoshi beats the game in a faster time than fox.
stage 1 : link - Not much seen here i used DJC to get him quickly to the edge and finished with FAIR. Couldn't use less DJC's and i had to manipulate link's DI in the right direction or no direction at all.
stage 2 : yoshi - painfull one, but i got an excelent run, the yoshis fell in favorable position's for the DTILTS which is the only technique that is able to 1 hit Ko them without a star finish on very hard mode.
stage 3 : Fox - re did this from the beggining about 7 times and finally managed to manipulate him to do a left roll which saved me from having to use a grab and saved a few frames. As for the DJCs, beautifull combo and got perfectly timed with the spike in the end
stage 4 : Mario bros. - Maybe the best stage in the whole run, got both the brothers in the same position allowing me to combo them exactly at the same time and saved a lot of frames.
stage 5: Pikachu - had a problem with the start. pikachu would come to the left side of the stage no matter what i did, i had to wait for him to do a dash attack so i could start the DJC. Just after the first NAIR pikachu did a roll to the right which helped a lot and saved 1 DJC, the last FAIR had to be delayed 1 frame in order for pikachu to die quicker saving another 7 frames.
stage 6: DK - Much faster than the usual fox strategy. Beating DK with 2 eggs was very quick, fast falling and delaying the last B allowed DK to die while still inside the egg and that was enough to get the time counter from 4:55 to 4:56.
stage 7 :kirby team - Another perfect stage. Killing the first kirby with a spike made the "mario kirby" come to the left platform and allowing me to manipulate the other kirbys in the same position.
stage 8 : samus - the strategy used was the one i found to be fastest but no matter what i changed in the whole run i had to waste 1 frame before starting running or else she would shoot the energy ball, having to jump early to avoid it, parrying it or anything was slower than wasting 1 frame.
stage 9 : metal mario - same as DK. metal mario dies faster because of his super weight.
stage 10 :polygon team - painfull one, manipulation all the polygons in the same position is very hard. Managed to manipulate a snorlax from a pokeball to kill 4 polygons before they could reach the floor.
final stage - Master hand went just as planned without modifications from my test runs. Just used a diferent manipulation using yoshi's second jump to hit the floor instead of falling normally, both takes the same ammount of frames.
bonus stages: the bonus stages are something that made yoshi an "unfavorable characther" but the improvements in the run make up for the time lost here.

mmbossman: In general, fighting games usually do not make good TASes when speed is the primary goal. The problem usually stems from having to use one or two strategies repeated over and over in order to achieve the fastest time. While this may impress people who are knowledgeable about the game, it tends to be monotonous for the average viewer, which I think the voting for this movie, along with the resulting discussion, has demonstrated.
Most of the fighting games with runs currently published focus on showing off, while still aiming to be moderately fast. I believe that this game also fits that mold; it is preferable to show off much of what the game has to offer while sacrificing some time for the benefit of more entertainment. While I acknowledge the fact that this will be an unpopular decision with some people, I believe that this game works better as a TAS when it focuses on entertainment. Therefore, I am rejecting this submission in favor of this submission.

adelikat: Unrejecting this submission for consideration into the Vault tier.
Nahoc: Added YT module.
Nahoc: Judging...
Nahoc: Rejecting this movie since it is clearly un-optimal by today's standards. An already faster TAS by DennisBalow using Kirby has been posted on YouTube in 2009. A new and faster submission using (most likely Kirby) would probably be accepted for the vault tier. Until then, it is meaningless to publish this as it fails to beat known records.


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Uh? Since when does 'highest score' mean 'entertaining'? Maybe in a different game, it might.
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Blaze wrote:
I don't really think a 1P completion based purely on entertainment would be accepted so well here.
They have been accepted before: http://tasvideos.org/773M.html http://tasvideos.org/934M.html http://tasvideos.org/422M.html http://tasvideos.org/421M.html http://tasvideos.org/759M.html EDIT: Or, if you don't think 1p would make a very entertaining run, include a second player to set up some long strings of combos and other fun things.
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Blaze wrote:
I don't really think a 1P completion based purely on entertainment would be accepted so well here.
Have you ever seen the Killer Instinct/Mortal Kombat series TAS'? They're all based on doing wacky shit while still doing it quickly. The optimal TAS for a fighting game is doing as much wild and interesting stuff as you can and doing THAT as fast/precise as you can. Watch Mortal Kombat 2 or Killer Instinct to get an idea with what I mean.
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Kles wrote:
The optimal TAS for a fighting game is doing as much wild and interesting stuff as you can and doing THAT as fast/precise as you can. Watch Mortal Kombat 2.
The best thing a TAS can show in a fighting game is insane combos. Something which I feel the MKII TAS lacks, Rain would have been a better choice IMO. Unfortuneatley <=16 bit generation games don't really allow such an opportunity. You'd have to wait until more modern consoles become TASable so you can do the anime and comic based fighting games which allow for excessive combos.
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Large numbers in a combo gauge aren't that interesting - this is my issue with the Killer Instinct TAS - also, SSB doesn't have one. :) Just do absurd things! Make 2 of the players play pinball with a third; have one guy get pounded on by the other 3 then have him KO them all back at once! Just do fun stuff in a 3-stock match or something.
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SSB allows for a multitude of different methods you can use to keep the run interesting. IMO there's no reason to use the same KO technique twice in a run, because there's that many different ways to knock out enemies, especially if you include item manipulation. I think that a publishable run would put entertainment first with speed as a secondary goal; this run does it the other way around, which is the big complaint. Comparing this run to runs of other games that got published isn't really accurate, we're talking about Smash Bros. and there's no end to entertaining ways to play (see antdgar's videos). Nothing wrong with wanting to make the fastest run possible, that's what you went for here and it's fine. I just don't think it's fun enough to watch to be published. I can picture far too many people downloading it, watching it and saying "that's it"? Fast, sure, but not in a way that remains interesting past the first levels.
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AKA wrote:
Kles wrote:
The optimal TAS for a fighting game is doing as much wild and interesting stuff as you can and doing THAT as fast/precise as you can. Watch Mortal Kombat 2.
The best thing a TAS can show in a fighting game is insane combos.
Along with glitches, oddities, funny moments, taunting opponents, and many other things. I agree that combos are great to show off, but variety is the spice of life.
AKA wrote:
Something which I feel the MKII TAS lacks, Rain would have been a better choice IMO.
I may be remembering wrong, but I thought that Rain only came about in Ultimate MK or MK triology. Smoke was the "it" character in MK II.
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Raiscan wrote:
Xkeeper pix needs a bit moar res: http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/5466/ssbfailureks1.jpg
Mine was taken from the AVI, because I refuse to meddle with that piece of garbage known as Mupen. :P
Blaze wrote:
Comicalflop aimend for the highest score so he did stuff you people consider entertaining but wasn't affecting his goal, as i aimed for the fastest time i made it as entertaining as it could get.I don't taunt in the end of the stage to avoid getting the fighter stance bonus which takes time to show up, see my point?
Yes, and your goals are boring. That is where the problem lies.
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i don't agree with the idea of making a movie out of a multiplayer match. the goal, in the sense of the game, not the movie, would be lame. sure it's nice to show off, but just doing a free for all doesn't warrant anything like the 1 Player modes do.
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Good!
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Satoryu wrote:
i don't agree with the idea of making a movie out of a multiplayer match. the goal, in the sense of the game, not the movie, would be lame. sure it's nice to show off, but just doing a free for all doesn't warrant anything like the 1 Player modes do.
What exactly do you think we do here? We make movies of video games, we don't actually play them. So the only goal that really matters is the goal of the movie, not whether it makes a good goal for the game. Making an unassisted speedrun for a fighting game is entertaining because it tends to show a lot of skill; making a TAS of a fighting game with a goal of speed usually isn't entertaining because of the repetitiveness mentioned uncountable times in this thread. For some reason, I feel the need to give just a few more examples of games that make entertaining movies, but not necessarily good goals if you're actually playing the game: http://tasvideos.org/1118M.html http://tasvideos.org/1013M.html http://tasvideos.org/1039M.html http://tasvideos.org/970M.html http://tasvideos.org/1029M.html Obviously, at 10 titles, runs aiming for entertainment rather than speed are the exception, not the rule, but they still have a place here, and I think SSB would make an excellent addition to this list.
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Blaze wrote:
I don't taunt in the end of the stage to avoid getting the fighter stance bonus which takes time to show up, see my point?
For future reference, this is allowed. Just add the category Ignores delays caused by bonus effects and mention that it's for entertainment and we'll probably allow it, since it is a nice touch. I doubt anyone will complain about it.
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After reading this topic, I've noticed no one has suggested two categories for SSB(That or I missed it because I'm an idiot), a speed oriented one and one focused on entertainment yet done as fast as possible.
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IST:
bkDJ wrote:
XIF wrote:
I think its a shame the run doesnt show all of the game's quirks, but that'd easily be an hour long run going through all the characters in the game (which is an idea actually <_<)
In one of the previous SSB submissions (or perhaps the main thread, doesn't matetr), someone brought up the idea of [A] the game being beaten with 4 "interesting" characters (i.e. where lots of move variety (nonstandard like yoshi?) can be shown) to unlock everyone. Other ideas involved using sram to have all characters. Like, [B] playing around with each character at least once in 2, 3, or 4 player vs matches. Or [C] beating all the BtT and BtP levels. I think any of these 3 game plans, if well executed, has a shot at being published.
Though bkDJ isn't really suggesting it, I feel that 2/3 categories might be necessary, though I am usually against large amounts of categories for games *cough*Metroid series*cough*
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Blaze wrote:
see my point?
I think you're missing what LDC is saying. Don't aim for pure speed, because it will get rejected for not being entertaining. You're probably not going to get a run published on the site unless it is entertaining, and the only pertinent way to do that is to not focus on just the 1P modes.
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Hm, this is indeed quite the wrong time for me to be on vacation before moving into college... in the middle of Maine, without my laptop, so no mupen, and no godless amounts of time to intellectually debate in favor or against many of the opinions that have been expressed here. (and there are quite a lot that I want to speak my piece.) Oh well. Here's what I can say based on not having watched the run yet: -Yoshi? Awesome. I was fearing fastest completion would always become attached to Fox. I am glad to see this change. -I kinda wished you had posted in the thread, I could have given pointers about technical precision. -I would probably find this run entertaining. I am a Double Jump Cancel fanatic; I abuse it alot when playing as Ness, and (with more difficulty) with Yoshi. I can imagine myself thinking strongly about voting yes on the spot. We shall see when I get back, though.... -My version better? nah... while funny, it itself is also obsolete (okaygo pointed out to me many ways to improve it) it's not my best ever piece of work, and I also got the goals kind of muddled up. I still have many old school friends and random youtube people tell me they enjoyed it, and that's good, but in this day and age I could probably do a better run. Shrug. -Beyond what I have done for Mario's Break the Target stage (I improved the TAS time by 1 frame; woop-de-shit!), and what has been done for Pikachu's TAS Board the Platforms, not much improvement remains in a full TAS for those stages. What would be achieved would mostly mirror what antD has already accomplished, or just be a few frames faster than the current WR's. I get the feeling that a continuation in the SSB thread should be made regarding what everyone would accept as a publishable run. As someone said, using the workbench to test out ideas leads to rejections; SSB has garnered quite the curse, and who in their right mind would want to try a new run if it will be met with a huge amount of arguing and controversy? If a few dedicated people spent time experimenting with new run ideas, new WIPs until the most ideal run is formulated, and then the collective TASers all worked on that run..... But meh I'm rambling. Hopefully I'll get the chance to watch when I get back from Maine, before a final decision has been reached. Or something. Now time to go out and catch some more sun.
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bkDJ wrote:
EDIT: enjoy a rushed encode, 320x240.
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edit: Naohiro19 is awesome. ....except it's too choppy on this slow computer and bad Maine connection. Also, one thing I want to just throw out there (not as an excuse for publishing, but): to all those who hate the game and don't want it published on the site, SSB has a large following of people who watch TASes for it who remain quite or not on the site at all. Of all of my youtube videos that I upload, anything SSB related gets more views/hits than for any other game. One of the things we want for the site is content that we know will be in high demand to be present for new people browsing the site. When I joined the site, first thing I did was download the AVI's of games I had played. The popularity of this game should come into play (although shouldn't dictate the outcome entirely.)
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AKA wrote:
I don't see the game getting published since there is some people who are hell bent on not seeing the game published.
Comicalflop wrote:
to all those who hate the game and don't want it published on the site
Where the hell does this idea keep coming from? I have yet to see one person say that they hate SSB, or that they think it's a horrible game that shouldn't ever have a run. Everyone's commentary, both pro and con, has been related to this run, and not to the game in general. Just because a game doesn't have a run yet after a few submissions does not indicate a conspiracy.
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I believe the standing rebuttal is "Yes, but that's not a good reason to publish a less-than-shiny run." I enjoyed this movie, but it could certainly be better- it doesn't look impressive. ...and you don't have to play it immediately on opening. Let it load first, perhaps. ;)
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Of all the SSB64 movies I've watched, this is the best. I'm giving it a yes because I found it entretaining enough, finally!
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mmbossman: i have not watched any of the runs you listed, nor have i played the games, but i can only assume that the 1 player and 2 player modes for those games are largely the same. and it sounds like they are all played to completion. maybe i didn't properly define "goal." i meant it as a finishing point, not a task to achieve. playing a free for all in Brawl offers no satisfying finishing point. in Classic mode, the finishing point is the credits (and Captain Falcon, which this run should've done imo). completing the 8 Break the Targets has a finishing point of Luigi.
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Satoryu wrote:
playing a free for all in Brawl offers no satisfying finishing point
Well, there is either a stock or a time limit... so there is a finishing point... but you are right in saying there are no clear goals besides 'trying to be entertaining'. While this might be the case, and even though I'm a big fan of having clear goals in a run, the most suitable TAS for this game clearly cannot have such clear goals.
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Satoryu wrote:
playing a free for all in Brawl offers no satisfying finishing point
I was thinking more along the lines of a playaround through the 1p mode like what was shown in this run. If there's a 2p co-op mode, that would be even better. EDIT: (Was just informed there is no co-op, which is a shame). It has a definite end point, and would still be a pretty reasonable length, I'd assume.
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