yeah, if I'm understanding correctly.
I moved mario to the right side of the screen and then jumped into the left side of the koopa just as it appeared on the screen.
Super Mario Bros. console speedrunner
- Andrew Gardikis
According to some in-deep study, using turles instead of bullet pills to get stuck at the flagpole seems impossible. Since Mario bounces off turles at higher speed upwards than off bullet pills, Mario always gets too high to get stuck at flagpole. That's what I've found out, unfortunately.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
I guess the only thing to try now is to somehow manipulate the bullet bill faster or something.
I made some research when I TAS the game, and I determined that being 21 frames faster was impossible. The cannon won't fire if Mario is within the horizonal range of 1.5 times of the width of a block off either side of it. In my published movie the Bullet Bill came out 12244-12227=17 frames after Mario had went out of the non-firing range. And the 21-frame-barrier requires you making the glitch 21-(12499-12495)=17 frames faster than in the movie to be broken.... I don't think it is possible to manipulate the Bullet Bill to come out as soon as you come out of the non-firing range, assuming that the cannon needs some frames to prepair for firing.
EDIT: And assuming that everything else in that level was done perfectly, including jumping over the 14th pit counted from the beginning of the level and the following pipe. :)
EDIT2: I forgot one thing! Even if you make it 17 frames faster, you still cannot break the 21-frame-barrier, because the TIME will then be 338 instead of 337, which will cost you 1 more frame to tally it down. So you'll need more time savers than just manipulating the Bullet Bill in order to be 21 or more frames faster.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
So if the bullet bill came out the earliest possible, which it most likely cant, then the 21 frames would be beaten. that looks unlikely, I'm still trying though.
:(
Super Mario Bros. console speedrunner
- Andrew Gardikis
To clear things up: you need to be at least 18 frames faster in Level 8-2 to gain 21 frames in the whole run.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
I can't see a way I would save 18 frames. :/
I'd like to see how many frames the run needs to be improved by to get the full 21 for each level/section of the game.
So, who's up for some corner boosting?
Super Mario Bros. console speedrunner
- Andrew Gardikis
I've got a headache since I couldn't recall them after I had completed my last SMB movie. I made some memory-poking to test them. It was annoying.
EDIT: Corner boosting? Do you mean jumping towards blocks above you to get pushed forward? It doesn't seem to work during full-speed running.
EDIT2: I've got some real headaches now. X( I think it's time for me to take a rest... I might re-find out the frames required to get the full 21-frames later.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
I've got a headache since I couldn't recall them after I had completed my last SMB movie. I made some memory-poking to test them. It was annoying.
EDIT: Corner boosting? Do you mean jumping towards blocks above you to get pushed forward? It doesn't seem to work during full-speed running.
uhh, idk getting pushed by the corners, I'm not sure if it works, but people keep mentioning the idea of it.
EDIT: yeah, I'm all smb'd-out as well. Maybe I'll test more thins later.
Super Mario Bros. console speedrunner
- Andrew Gardikis
I'm still SMB'd-out. I'm not going to test those frames right now. But if you want to have a try...
The way I make such tests is to memory-poke the TIME values. The tally rate is 1 TIME/frame. Memory addresses 0x07f8-0x07fa are the three digitals for the TIME displayed from left to right on the screen. The frame the TIME begins to tally down at is when you catch the flagpole. So you can poke the TIME right 1 frame before you grab onto the flagpole to increase or decrease the frames the game takes before the inter-level screen. I hope you can understand this.
EDIT: Duh, stupid errors fixed.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
Essentially I'd like to see how much needs to be saved throughout the course of the whole warp run.
Number of frames needed in each section for an improvement:
1-1 section 1:
1-1 section 2:
1-1 section 3:
1-2:
4-1:
4-2 section 1:
4-2 section 2:
8-1:
8-2: 18 frames needed
8-3:
8-4 section 1:
8-4 section 2:
8-4 section 3:
8-4 section 4:
8-4 section 5: 1 frame needed
EDIT: SMB experiment: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/522771773/foolingaround2.fcm
Super Mario Bros. console speedrunner
- Andrew Gardikis
So basically what you're saying is that one frame before you catch the flagpole, the timer should go from 338 to 337?
Not like that... Since 338 costs 1 more frame to get cleared than 337 does, you have to earn that 1 extra frame which will be take account into the "required frames to get the full 21".
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
If you're trying to figure out how many frames you need save in order to save 21 frames in total, and it's proving to be difficult to calculate through the memory thing, it should fairly easy to calculate manually, right?
I mean, just keep beating the level, 1 frame slower each try, until it adds an extra 21 frames. It should be easy to do the calculation after that....
I looked at the Tricks page for Super Mario Bros. 1 and realized there's a glitch very briefly mentioned, but actually useful. There's no animated gif for it yet, but I think there should be one (preferably something like this.)
Also, I've tried this underwater, but it seems to be very hard, if not impossible.
I looked at the Tricks page for Super Mario Bros. 1 and realized there's a glitch very briefly mentioned, but actually useful. There's no animated gif for it yet, but I think there should be one
Actually, it is just a header serving as an introduction to a couple of different enter-the-wall techniques -- each of which _do_ have an animation.
I looked at the Tricks page for Super Mario Bros. 1 and realized there's a glitch very briefly mentioned, but actually useful. There's no animated gif for it yet, but I think there should be one
Actually, it is just a header serving as an introduction to a couple of different enter-the-wall techniques -- each of which _do_ have an animation.
Ah, ok. Maybe just make a new section for this one (enter a wall from standing under a corner)?
I felt like trying again today, but no luck. There are two methods I tried, that were pretty close to working out. The first is just duck-jumping in a way that you slightly get inside of the platform that is 'in the way'.
This is the closest I've got:
The second one implies using the midair-koopa-walking trick. I made an illustration of my idea on the previous page.
The problems:
-> You can't place a shell on the right side of the lower platform since you can't make it back on the platform. Therefore, the only alternative is using the gap on the left side of that platform. But then again, you can't go to the right to set up the koopas to throw them off to the lower platform because the screen scrolls and you can't access that gap again. And there are only very limited techniques to get to the right side of the screen without scrolling the screen.
I'm very confident that if we got a shell on the lower platform while still having the gap open to place the shell on the air, it will work out just fine. Both this and the other method are just one or two pixels away from working.
Sorry, I didn't bother to post my testings. I'll add them sometime in the future.
edit: I'm also convinced now that the whole gap may not be required to be displayed. Maybe only half of it? Not so sure about this though.
How are you getting the koopas down there anyway, I thought they won't walk off ledges? Are you hitting their shell into the air, then having them sprout back in the air, then hitting them again? Could you just do this to the right of the platform you jump off of?
I'm confused why you can't do this on the right side of the lower platform. You said you can't make it back to the platform; what is it, and what is the platform?
So there's no way to move the screen left at all? All you can do is move yourself right while the screen stays in place? And you can't even do this at this particular first section of the level?
Could small fire mario help at all with the first method?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
How are you getting the koopas down there anyway, I thought they won't walk off ledges? Are you hitting their shell into the air, then having them sprout back in the air, then hitting them again? Could you just do this to the right of the platform you jump off of?
I'm getting their shell to move by touching them. It is possible to land on a shell that you just pushed off the platform, just by walking off the platform. If you land on a shell that is flying in mid-air within the two rows of blocks at the bottom of the screen, a glitch will take place: The shell will be stopped from moving and will just behave as if it was on the ground. It will even walk through the floor if it is set up in a certain way.
I'm confused why you can't do this on the right side of the lower platform. You said you can't make it back to the platform; what is it, and what is the platform?
I mean the very first platform in this level. If you take a look on the big illustration, it's the one on the bottom left. Since you need to walk and running is prohibited, landing on the shell you kicked off a platform is even harder and you need a lot of speed / momentum to reach it. You can't make it back to the platform because you can't just abruptly stop and gain much momentum to the opposite direction.
So there's no way to move the screen left at all?
Not to my knowledge.
All you can do is move yourself right while the screen stays in place? And you can't even do this at this particular first section of the level?
I was able to proceed just as much as is needed to kick one of the two koopas to the left, while still having the gap open. I'll post some .vbm's soon for better realising my explanations and techniques.
What do you mean by the particular first section of the level? The only instance where to gain a few pixels of range is the 'second' platform, with the koopas on it. You bump against it while facing to the left. This trick is actually well-known and can be done in 4-1 to skip the vine. I, however, somehow found it myself and haven't bothered looking up a detailed description, so maybe someone is able to gain more distance than I was able to. Again, I'll show you what I got shortly...
Could small fire mario help at all with the first method?
I don't think so. It's been quite a while since I tried out fiery small mario, but I think he just acts like small Mario unless you shoot fireballs (which is prohibited).
I'm no SMB expert or knowledgable person, I just test stuff because I'm bored. So if I'm mistaken somewhere or something is confusing, tell me!
What do you mean by the particular first section of the level?
I mean from the start of this level up until this spot with the koopas.
Why can't you just do this fall on koopa trick to the right of the platform you're going to jump off of for the the main jump later?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Mugg, you should try and do this in the SNES version. I have a feeling it might be more doable (because of the way you bounce off of koopa shells). Just a thought.
Doing this on the nes version really seems impossible to me.
Super Mario Bros. console speedrunner
- Andrew Gardikis
I tried what you suggested, andrewg, but it seems Mario can't reach the shell he kicked off when he's in the air.
When kicking a shell off a platform it slows down just as it leaves the platform. This behavour isn't existent (or at least, not very notable) on the SNES version, it seems.
I'll try some more today.
@ Spider-Waffle: It doesn't reach the other platform. The jump you gain from landing on a koopa (or goomba or anything else) is very minimal.
Jump partially in the shell as you hit it, you can bounce off of it. I'll have to test this some more later. I feel like it's definitely doable.
EDIT: If the shell physics are a bit different it might not be doable, but I still think you should be able to get very close.
Super Mario Bros. console speedrunner
- Andrew Gardikis
So yeah, I've run a few more testings. I got lucky and managed to get the shell on the lower platform with much less scrolling, so that there was almost the whole gap still on-screen. I knew that the whole gap wasn't required, but only a part of it since you can stomp on the shell without actually going down the gap.
Then the problem was to get the shell to float in the gap. But kicking the shell off and still landing on it turned out to be very difficult and I would only die (by touching the shell) instead of landing on it. Then I saw that there where two modes of walking. One that was slower than the other, and the slower one would produce a lower jump then the faster one. I found this out after several hours of trying, and this is what led to the solution finally. The jump was just as high as it was required to be to come down and land on the shell in time. This all was very tricky...
Then all that was needed now was to bump into the left side of the screen to stop all the momentum and go do the right faster. I just barely missed the shell and that was it. The shell was on the air and the problem is now hereby solved.
-> The full-game walkathon is now possible.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/700442319/4-3_problem_solved.fcm
(FCEU movie)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=SX3V3LRE
(avi)
I'm not going to make the run, feel free to discuss, ask etc.
The second one implies using the midair-koopa-walking trick. I made an illustration of my idea on the previous page.
The problems:
-> You can't place a shell on the right side of the lower platform since you can't make it back on the platform. Therefore, the only alternative is using the gap on the left side of that platform. But then again, you can't go to the right to set up the koopas to throw them off to the lower platform because the screen scrolls and you can't access that gap again. And there are only very limited techniques to get to the right side of the screen without scrolling the screen.
I'm very confident that if we got a shell on the lower platform while still having the gap open to place the shell on the air, it will work out just fine. Both this and the other method are just one or two pixels away from working.
Sorry, I didn't bother to post my testings. I'll add them sometime in the future.
edit: I'm also convinced now that the whole gap may not be required to be displayed. Maybe only half of it? Not so sure about this though.
