Oh yeah, forgot to add something!
If a level has more than one Runner and the level only requires you to use one or two, you can have the rest of the lemmings catch up by changing them into runners. That would shave off a few seconds from the run.
That's what I did - when the level was safe to traverse, I'd make the last few runners, using up the rest of the running skill.
That would be a potent way to shave off even minutes from the run, as many levels has the Runner skill.
have you seen my wip? i did this on the first level, haha.
you just need to give the runner to the last lemming inside...unless giving him that puts another lemming in last, then...
Nah, In some levels and thus worlds it will give you a gold if you save almost all of them. This is because the designers thought it was impossible or too hard to save all of them, but in some cases they were wrong.
Well, I went back on a TAS WIP watching binge, and I have to say good job, even if it was only one level. ;) What is your progress now?
Everything flagitious has said is absolutely correct. Going back and looking at what I have, the levels in question are Polar 8 (2 lost) and Classic 7 and 8 (1 each). From what I remember, you need to use 2 Exploders in Polar 8, and 1 Blocker each in the Classic levels.
I think it should be obvious that getting all golds would be the way to go. Minimum completion would be kinda trivial, although there are runs like glitched LTTP on this site I guess.
I think what would actually be useful is if someone went and figured out the minimum number of lemmings needed in each world to get gold. Of course, this would make a TAS a pain in the ass because you'd have to figure out which levels you could let extra lemmings die to save the most time.
haha, i wish i'd realized the fan is totally annoying. i'm less than a second into level 2, since it starts with a jetpack, and then a rope! my two favorite things!
i've been playing final fantasy iv and baten kaitos mostly, haha. ^_~
Oh in case you're wondering, I'll get back to SDA tonight or tomorrow. =) I saw your sig before you changed it (I think) and... oh wait, I'll just say it there where appropriate.
Anyway, since you're playing FF2/4 now, maybe you can watch my run when you're done. ;)
Edit: Oh god, I forgot how annoying the fan would be to operate. Even worse in a TAS probably. Maybe you should get someone to figure out the memory address to watch for fan speed? Or maybe lemming velocity? I dunno, but something.
the fan just has a more extreme version of the cursor lag i (think i) alluded to before. it takes three frames before it starts spinning and it must go for eight more before it does anything. at any rate, the annoying part is holding it for just the right amount of time. is there a way to go to full speed from frame advance, without reloading the ROM?
edit: haha, probably.
hahaha, i fail.
Well, I went back on a TAS WIP watching binge, and I have to say good job, even if it was only one level. ;) What is your progress now?
Everything flagitious has said is absolutely correct. Going back and looking at what I have, the levels in question are Polar 8 (2 lost) and Classic 7 and 8 (1 each). From what I remember, you need to use 2 Exploders in Polar 8, and 1 Blocker each in the Classic levels.
I think it should be obvious that getting all golds would be the way to go. Minimum completion would be kinda trivial, although there are runs like glitched LTTP on this site I guess.
I think what would actually be useful is if someone went and figured out the minimum number of lemmings needed in each world to get gold. Of course, this would make a TAS a pain in the ass because you'd have to figure out which levels you could let extra lemmings die to save the most time.
I haven't confirmed this, but it is possible that you would need 38 to 40 lemmings at the end of each world to get the gold medal, as in most of the worlds you can save all 40 lemmings, but in some you will have to give up a couple, but typically the surviving lemmings at the end would be from 38 to 40. So that may be about it to get the gold medal.
The only way is to test this out on a world where you can save all 40 lemmings, but purposely kill off a couple so you end up with 38. If you STILL get the gold medal in the 40 lemming worlds, then the minimum would be 38 - and it would cut down the speedrun a bit. The minimum number of lemmings required to get the gold medal may be less than 38, but you may just get the silver medal instead.
Anyway, if you plan to kill off the remaining lemmings to make the level go faster after getting an apporitate number of lemmings in the goal, just use the ever-so-handy Exploder skill. :P Or fall off a cliff, jump into acid, get into a trap, whatever, to save time. You could even use the flying gadgets (Magic Carpet, Jet Pack, Super Lem, Icarus Wings, and so on) and force the lemming into a pit, trap or acid to kill them off faster.
I'm not for killing lemmings, but hey, a couple will have to die for the sake of this speedrun :P
Wait, so now we're making gold medals the goal rather than a nice side effect of 100% possible saving?
First of all, it's impossible to save 100% of lemmings in ALL worlds, combined. In several worlds you are forced to give up a couple of lemmings - like in Classic and Polar.
So we're just going for gold medals, it seems like. It's the only way we can get a "100%" completion.
I haven't confirmed this, but it is possible that you would need 38 to 40 lemmings at the end of each world to get the gold medal, as in most of the worlds you can save all 40 lemmings, but in some you will have to give up a couple, but typically the surviving lemmings at the end would be from 38 to 40. So that may be about it to get the gold medal.
Well, I remembered that the requirements for gold are different for some tribes than others. Then, I said what the hell and just tested. With Shadow, if you let even one lemming die, you get silver.
Sketchie wrote:
Anyway, if you plan to kill off the remaining lemmings to make the level go faster after getting an apporitate number of lemmings in the goal, just use the ever-so-handy Exploder skill. :P Or fall off a cliff, jump into acid, get into a trap, whatever, to save time. You could even use the flying gadgets (Magic Carpet, Jet Pack, Super Lem, Icarus Wings, and so on) and force the lemming into a pit, trap or acid to kill them off faster.
Well, there is no shortage of ways to kill guys if you want to (armageddon being the obvious and always available, and just escaping is best in versions that allow that). The trick would be to find a level where sacrificing a lemming would allow for a faster solution. That's what I meant.
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
Wait, so now we're making gold medals the goal rather than a nice side effect of 100% possible saving?
Actually, we could do either, and it's up to spineshark. It would be a lot easier to plan with 100% possible so the levels would stay independent. Both would be impressive in different ways, and there's really not going to be too much of a difference either way, so it's a judgment call.
I guess it could depend on how tricky you have to be to do 100% possible. I don't really remember. Although, with more trickyness, that leads to more gold leeway, which would also lead to more room for sacrificing timeshaving. Well the first step regardless is to figure out exactly how many you need in each tribe.
Well, there is no shortage of ways to kill guys if you want to (armageddon being the obvious and always available, and just escaping is best in versions that allow that). The trick would be to find a level where sacrificing a lemming would allow for a faster solution. That's what I meant.
if i were doing it this way, the answer seems obvious to me. you kill off the lemming as early as possible, so he doesn't drop anymore. that'd save a second or so on each level.
Actually, we could do either, and it's up to spineshark. It would be a lot easier to plan with 100% possible so the levels would stay independent. Both would be impressive in different ways, and there's really not going to be too much of a difference either way, so it's a judgment call.
i rather like the idea of maximum (for this purpose, "100") percent, as opposed to a "best rank" run. especially if some of the tribes don't give you much/any leeway anyway, i don't see what's the point of killing off 10 extra lemmings (or however many it would be) to save 45 seconds.
if i were doing it this way, the answer seems obvious to me. you kill off the lemming as early as possible, so he doesn't drop anymore. that'd save a second or so on each level.
Well actually, there might be better situations. Let's say on a level you have to go "the long way" to save all the lemmings, but if you use an Exploder in a certain spot, then you sequence break if you will, and have a much shorter path. Something like that.
spineshark wrote:
i rather like the idea of maximum (for this purpose, "100") percent, as opposed to a "best rank" run. especially if some of the tribes don't give you much/any leeway anyway, i don't see what's the point of killing off 10 extra lemmings (or however many it would be) to save 45 seconds.
Well, whatever's most impressive is best, and I don't know what that is. But all else equal, I do agree with you. ;)
no. sorry. and nothing all week. orchestra makes me very unhappy.
in fact, there will probably be no more to see until june. at this rate i'll be done in...what...2026?
no. sorry. and nothing all week. orchestra makes me very unhappy.
in fact, there will probably be no more to see until june. at this rate i'll be done in...what...2026?
ugh, sorry, this run is fucked indefinitely. i dropped my laptop on tuesday and it doesn't work. not only did i lose all my work on beach 2, but the computer that my dad lets me run snes9x on itself. in other words, i can't even start to redo my progress yet.
we...apologize...for...the...inconvenience... :(
yes.
in general the run moves slowly because i've been playing like a dozen rpgs at once continuously (many of those got nuked when i dropped my computer too) for months and attempting to console run games that suck.
any time i have to use the fan, the run is low on the list. i also note that i had a ridiculous amount of stuff to do at the end of may.
when i get the opportuntiy and the motivation, this run will be updated.
Hiya everyone. I have been playing around with Lemmings 2 and just wanna share what I've got so far. I've done 2 runs of the 10 beach levels that are the default set when you go to "play" from the main menu. I know they are no where near optimal, but I think that you can get a good feel of what a "save all lemmings" run will be like.
The first run was just to get a feel for the game again and test things out in general. The goal of the second run was simply to beat the first run, which it does so start there if you don't want to watch virtually the same thing twice, I did not change a whole lot strategy wise.
First run if you wanna watch
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/523304881/Copy%20of%20Lemmings%202%20-%20The%20Tribes%20%28U%29%20v1%20Rad%20Hazard.smv
Second run
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1358510704/Copy%20of%20Lemmings%202%20-%20The%20Tribes%20%28U%29%20v2%20Rad%20Hazard.smv
I've learned a few things that should help out:
- the cursor is movable before the victory screen appears. just hold down and left about 30 frames before it appears and the cursor should be right above the 'next' button.
- after you finish the 10th level of a tribe, you can skip the 'award me' button and go right back to the main menu to go to the map.
- if you have the game in fast forward, using L or R to change skills will return the game to normal speed as well as always auto-selecting the first skill on the left.
- however, if you use the select button to 'unfast forward', then you will still be on the skill you had selected before turning fast forward on.
- the X button is very useful in making the cursor jump across the screen when there is little time between handing out jobs to lemmings.
- if you are locked on to a lemming with X and then hold A and move the screen, it is possible to lock on to another lemming immediately after releasing A as long as you push in the direction of that lemming. This did not always work though, more testing needed.
- it seemed that when giving a lemming a job with B or changing skills with the L or R button that each button had to be held down for 4 frames. Toggling fast forward on and off only required 3 frames. Not sure though.
The beach tribe is the obvious first choice, but are there any preferences for the next tribe I try? 12 tribes x 10-11 minute average per tribe would make a complete run about 2 hours or so in length if the beach tribe can be used as a guide.
Joined: 6/9/2005
Posts: 171
Location: Southern California
If the levels are the same as the PC version, I'd recommend Shadow, Circus, Outdoor, and Cave as early contenders, as their levels are (typically) smaller and faster.
For some reason, I recall the Egyptian, Space, and Highland levels being the most difficult / annoying.
Most of the Sports levels are large, but easy--the kicker is the final level of the Sports tribe, which asked for some deadeye accuracy with the Archer tool under some strict time limits.
Of course, on the PC version, clicking "Play" at the title screen brought you straight to the Beach tribe--what happens after you complete that default tribe? Are you returned to the title screen, or does clicking "Play" continue to shuffle you through the tribes in some designated order?
I'm really looking forward to this run--Lemmings 2 is one of my favorite games!
