Started on version 2. Fairy makes things very much faster ^_^ Levels are 8-3-1. Death Mountain takes about 15 seconds longer because of my lower attack level, but the time is more than recovered by having Fairy early.
Event Total time Time elapsed Event description
000 00:00:00.00 00:00:00.00 System reset!!
001 00:00:27.96 00:00:27.96 North Palace enter!!
002 00:00:52.63 00:00:24.67 Magic Container get!!
003 00:01:23.62 00:00:30.99 ATK->2, next 0100
004 00:01:33.32 00:00:09.70 Trophy get!!
005 00:01:58.01 00:00:24.69 Ruto enter!!
006 00:02:34.09 00:00:36.08 Jump get!!
007 00:03:36.39 00:01:02.30 ATK->3, next 0100
008 00:04:14.62 00:00:38.23 Talk to Bagu
009 00:04:47.02 00:00:32.40 Saria enter!!
010 00:05:43.64 00:00:56.62 Death Mountain enter!!
011 00:06:10.70 00:00:27.06 ATK->4, next 0300
012 00:07:13.52 00:01:02.82 ATK->5, next 0300
013 00:07:31.06 00:00:17.54 ATK->6, next 0300
014 00:07:51.72 00:00:20.66 ATK->7, next 0700
015 00:08:55.00 00:01:03.28 Hammer get!!
016 00:09:46.17 00:00:51.17 Magic COntainer get!!
017 00:10:03.42 00:00:17.25 ATK->8, next 0700
018 00:11:39.76 00:01:36.34 Medicine get!!
019 00:12:25.36 00:00:45.60 Mido enter!
020 00:13:03.11 00:00:37.75 Downstab get!!
021 00:13:46.01 00:00:42.90 Fairy get!!
022 00:14:49.98 00:01:03.97 Parapa enter!!
023 00:15:53.06 00:01:03.08 MAG->2, next 0700
024 00:16:29.27 00:00:36.21 Parapa win!!
025 00:16:38.26 00:00:08.99 MAG->3, next 0700
63 seconds of load-time. It seems to be 3~4 seconds per load.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster.
I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Event Total time Time elapsed Event description
026 00:17:33.68 00:00:55.42 Midoro Palace enter!!
027 00:20:50.91 00:03:17.23 Holy Glove get!!
028 00:21:29.86 00:00:38.95 MAG->4, next 1000
029 00:23:00.13 00:01:30.27 Midoro Palace clear!!
030 00:23:08.88 00:00:08.75 MAG->5, next 1000
031 00:24:16.09 00:01:07.21 Island Palace enter!!
032 00:26:03.13 00:01:47.04 Raft get!!
033 00:26:12.56 00:00:09.43 MAG->6, next 1500
034 00:27:39.66 00:01:27.10 Island Palace clear!!
035 00:27:49.47 00:00:09.81 MAG->7, next 1500
036 00:28:40.72 00:00:51.25 East Hyrule enter!!
037 00:29:15.22 00:00:34.50 Maze Island enter!!
I didn't time the loads (I have class in a bit), but I guess it's about 90 seconds or so of load time so far. There's also a bit of inefficiency with keys - I figured out too late that I can shave off 30 seconds to a minute by bringing an extra key from a different Palace.
Being able to Fairy through doors is a good thing, but it sucks when you still have to get keys to get items.. and a Fairy can't carry keys through a door, so it just gets worse.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster.
I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Just killed Carock. I probably wasted about 30~45 seconds overall doing this sequence (Maze Island to Darunia to Maze Island again) from not having MP (and no level in sight, sadly) and from Carock's attack pattern being almost entirely random..
Anyway, as I'm paused at the statue right now, I need some style advice..
I'm not taking any damage for the entire run, so of course I didn't get Shield, Life, or any of the Heart Containers.. but should I level up Life or just leave it at level 1 and level Magic again and again to refill it / get extra lives (that I won't use)?
I'm also thinking of making two future versions of this, both much faster. One will use UP+A and death, and the other will use the 'negative edge' glitches.
Timestamps to come sometime later.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster.
I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Does leveling life also refill magic? If not you should just level magic again and again to refill it unless your magic is full already. If it's full already, then I guess leveling life wouldn't hurt. By the way, what strategy did you use against Carock? Did you beat him the easy way and stay on the edge the whole time or did you move around and use save states to you advantage to make sure the reflected magic always hits him?
I'm leaving life at 1. It seems more impressive to beat the game with no Shield, no Life, no Heart Containers, and life at 1.
Michael Fried wrote:
By the way, what strategy did you use against Carock? Did you beat him the easy way and stay on the edge the whole time or did you move around and use save states to you advantage to make sure the reflected magic always hits him?
I moved around and used savestates. It doesn't help much, because even when you know where he will appear next, you can't get to the right position fast enough.. a majority of the waves hit, but not everything.
I also cleared the Temple on the Sea.. definitely some changes there from the US version (Mazura guards the fake wall and the guardian of the statue is Gemma Fencer). All the way up to New Kasuto and grabbing the last Magic Container, Spell, and the Magical Key..
The FMV is now 346 kb... grab it here.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster.
I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
I had a look at it and so far it looks good. The fact that you have to stab the items to get them slows you down, doesn't it? In the US version you wouldn't have to go out of your way for any keys in any of the first three palaces. You don't have that luxury here, do you?
One thing that I did notice is that you focused a lot on getting P-Bags when you don't really need them. As long as you reach Magic Level 5 by the beginning or early in Palace 3 and Magic Level 7 by the Great Palace all other magic level ups are meaningless.
Having said that, you can force those enemies to give you red jars. It seems like you are relying entirely on level ups to refill your magic but with a little work you might find a place where forcing an enemy to drop a red jar is beneficial.
Here is how that works in case you don't know. This is how I observed it in the US version and I played around with it a bit in the JP version and it seems to be the same.
Every sixth small enemy (fewer than 30 exp points) will drop a 50 point P-Bag or a blue jar.
Every sixth large enemy (more than 30 exp points) will drop a 200 point P-Bag or a red jar.
Lastly, you may want to reconsider getting the Spell spell and the Magic Key. I know it doesn't take long but I don't see why it is necessary. If you skip the Cross I believe that you would only have to use Fairy 4 times in Palace 6. All you would need to get is one red jar after the first use of Fairy and you would be fine.
The fact that you have to stab the items to get them slows you down, doesn't it?
Not as much as in the US version, where you pose with the item until the sound is done playing. And I'm pretty sure in both versions you can't get items as a fairy. So it's faster in the Japanese.
kopernical wrote:
In the US version you wouldn't have to go out of your way for any keys in any of the first three palaces. You don't have that luxury here, do you?
It's faster to just use Fairy. The keys are about 30 seconds out of the way each.
kopernical wrote:
One thing that I did notice is that you focused a lot on getting P-Bags when you don't really need them. As long as you reach Magic Level 5 by the beginning or early in Palace 3 and Magic Level 7 by the Great Palace all other magic level ups are meaningless.
The next version won't force P-bags to drop. I didn't realise how rediculously fast you level in the Japanese when I first began, and because of the early precedent of always grabbing P-bags (especailly before they land), I stayed with it. Level 8-7-1 by Island of the Gods is a bit fast.
kopernical wrote:
Having said that, you can force those enemies to give you red jars. It seems like you are relying entirely on level ups to refill your magic but with a little work you might find a place where forcing an enemy to drop a red jar is beneficial.
Here is how that works in case you don't know. This is how I observed it in the US version and I played around with it a bit in the JP version and it seems to be the same.
Every sixth small enemy (fewer than 30 exp points) will drop a 50 point P-Bag or a blue jar.
Every sixth large enemy (more than 30 exp points) will drop a 200 point P-Bag or a red jar.
Thank you for this information! For the next version, I'll count enemies so they always drop what I want when I need it.
kopernical wrote:
Lastly, you may want to reconsider getting the Spell spell and the Magic Key. I know it doesn't take long but I don't see why it is necessary. If you skip the Cross I believe that you would only have to use Fairy 4 times in Palace 6. All you would need to get is one red jar after the first use of Fairy and you would be fine.
And only two of those casts are from doors...
The reason I was getting Spell was so I could use it in the battles on the way through Death Valley to see the Moa without the Cross, but I guess with savestate it's kind of useless, so yeah. No Spell or Magical Key.
The next version will also use UP+A when it would be useful, which should save even more time.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster.
I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Not as much as in the US version, where you pose with the item until the sound is done playing. And I'm pretty sure in both versions you can't get items as a fairy. So it's faster in the Japanese.
Heh, that's wasn't what I meant. In the US version you CAN collect the items as a fairy so you wouldn't have to go out of your way to collect the extra keys. As an added bonus there is no posing when you're the fairy. The US version would be considerably faster in this respect.
Boco wrote:
The next version will also use UP+A when it would be useful, which should save even more time.
I never even thought about that. It starts you back at the main palace, right? I would think it would save time after beating Palace 1, after getting the Hammer, and probably after Beating Palace 2 as well.
All this is making me want to try a US version on VirtuaNes to see how close the times would be to each other :) The JP version would still win out but I think it would be close.
I think he's using the Japanese version because the elevators work (although I've never had a problem with them in the US version) and because the level system is different. He can max out attack very quickly compared to in the US version.
Game clear!! Total time from system reset to the final hit on Link's shadow is 59 minutes 26 seconds.
The Twin Galaxies record for the US version is 1:59:57 by TSA, but you shouldn't take that as a real value, because I can beat it pretty easily (I average 1:45) and I've seen a clean 1:36 run that's 100% completion without using UP+A or other timesavers.
The timestamps are on my journal, if you're interested in exactly when things are occuring. It took less than 12 seconds to kill Bolba (Thunderbird) and about 12 seconds even to kill Link's shadow.
Oh, um.. the timestamps are estimates because they were taken at different times with different starting points. That's why the 3-second discrepancy. So don't pay attention to the hundredths of a second column at all ^_-
I'll post a little bit later with the differences between the Japanese and US versions (with audio-visual comparison! yay!!). Once that's done, I'll e-mail Bisqwit with all the info and we'll see if he wants me to shave it down to 50 minutes before he posts (I'm pretty sure it's possible).
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster.
I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Once that's done, I'll e-mail Bisqwit with all the info and we'll see if he wants me to shave it down to 50 minutes before he posts (I'm pretty sure it's possible).
It didn't make it? ;(
I really want to see a Zelda 2 time attack.
It's long, it has fluency errors and Boco said she's going to redo it anyway.
I did create an avi (unresampled high-quality one), but I ran out of disk space when I tried to record Batman so I had to delete that.
I tried searching for this topic already, but haven't found anything on it. I don't own the rom for Link no Bouken, so I can't view the fmv file movie. I was wondering Bisqwit if you were planning on creating an avi file for it, since I assume it's finished that it's on your movie page. Thanks.
Rob
The topic is here.
The AVI won't be made at least until I finish the next version of the movie. The one that's up can be improved quite a bit (minor optimisations, no EXP farming, UP+A, keys, etc).
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster.
I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
