While I was doing some preliminary work on a Super Return of the Jedi TAS earlier, the question occurred to me..."Why play at the hardest level?"
From what I've seen in my time here, it's fairly well-accepted that a TAS's purpose is to entertain, not show skill, so what's the point of turning up the difficulty? In general, higher difficulties just mean more/tougher enemies, perhaps detracting from the entertainment value or making the movie take longer. (A notable exception would be Goldeneye or Perfect Dark, since more goals are added as the difficulty increases, which changes the run completely.)
What say you guys?
Most of us grew up with these games. I spent a long time fighting against Battletoads at a friend's house and don't distinctly remember beating it without cheating. These games beat players, not the other way around.
Seeing them walked all over at their hardest difficulty is jaw dropping. That is why you should play at hardest difficulty.
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It's a relic from before frame-advancing was common, and most movies that were made still consisted of people actually playing the game. I'd say it's still relevant today though, as harder levels provide more for the runner to do, and more for the viewer to see. It also provides the viewer with the satisfaction of knowing they've seen the entirety of the game conquered, instead of wondering "what if he did the hard route?".
There have been exceptions made, however it is usually due to the hard mode only adding HP to enemies and bosses, resulting in longer times without an increase in activity or change in goals. But I'm very much in favor of all games to be run in hard mode because they provide the biggest feeling of "completeness" when they're done.
Seeing the game beaten with superhuman powers at the highest difficulty level *is* usually the most entertaining way. That's because the highest difficulty level usually shows best the awesomeness of perfect playing.
IMO the most successful (and entertaining) TASes are those which make the highest difficulty level look easy.
Also, the rules saves 68.325 (approximate rounding) pages of arguments as to what difficulty a popular game should be played at. Granted, as the bossdude said, exceptions are made when it doesn't aid the video.
Having the rule set just makes judging a movie that is some # of frames faster than the hardest difficulty an easier decision.
Also, rule 76.
http://www.rule76.com/
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
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If higher difficulty is simply a matter of "bosses take more hits," then I'd agree with a faster, more entertaining run on a lower setting. But if harder means "more enemies" then that will make the finished product more fun.
Solon, it's not always required that you play on the highest difficulty. If the only difference is the player takes more damage, or the enemies take less there often is no point as it will just make the game more repetitive.
In short, while i'm sure Tompa would argue with my about the Super Star Wars series. I would say you are fine to play it on normal since it's not like there are more enemies or something.
A notable exception would be Goldeneye or Perfect Dark, since more goals are added as the difficulty increases, which changes the run completely
Just had to comment on this, I did make a run of Goldeneye on the easiest setting and while being a very fast and mostly entertaining run, it still isn't as entertaining as the 00A run. Higher difficulty means showing off more parts of the levels, more headshots to be done(=entertainment), and the fact that the console world record vids are near perfect already for easy difficulties, on 00A/PA there's much more room for improvements and new insane strategies to be used.
As for the general view, I'm sure someone already said this but poeple who have played a game themselves and perhaps struggled to beat it, LOVES to see the game destroyed/owned to death. Also, it gives the movie a little more edge as the death threat is higher(doesn't matter for the TAS'er but for the viewer it might give a diffrent feeling)
Oh well i'm not here to debate, just wanted to give my input on the GE/PD statement since i have some experience from those.
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There's also the case where you can't get the best ending if you play on a lower difficulty. That's really the only reason my Pugsley's Scavenger Hunt movie is done with only one heart - it changes nothing else whatsoever and actually makes the movie a tiny bit slower since I can't take damage shortcuts. But if you do it on an "easier" setting, the text at the end says something like "now try a higher difficulty" instead of "w00t, you beat the game, now get a life, you nerd". (paraphrased)
I just hate how many newer games make you unlock some of the higher difficulties. Why can't it be my choice whether I'm ready to graduate to a tougher game? Plus, that messes up the possibility of using the highest difficulty in runs for this site, because you're supposed to start from a clean slate. You'd have to make another run to unlock the higher level, and at that point, you've already got a run of the regular game...
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
I hate how new games incorporate a 'training session' into every new game.
It's gonna be a bitch to TAS xbox, 360, ps2, and etc games someday, because the training missions CAN'T BE SKIPPED.
Does anyone else play a brand new game (GTA4, assasin's creed, etc) and think about the TAS?
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Hell yes I was thinking about how Assassin's Creed would look in a TAS. I've found some pretty silly bugs in it already, so who knows what a real beancounter could break in that game!
Technically any current PC game could be TASed, but you might have fun doing the actual implementation side. :)
From what I've seen in my time here, it's fairly well-accepted that a TAS's purpose is to entertain, not show skill, so what's the point of turning up the difficulty? In general, higher difficulties just mean more/tougher enemies, perhaps detracting from the entertainment value or making the movie take longer.
It depends on the game. More bullets to dodge = fun. More enemies to kill/dodge = usually fun. More spectacular boss battles = funnier than OHKO. And so on.
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Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
I think Drill Dozer is a good example of "shouldn't be played on hard mode." You have to beat the game and unlock a code to get hard mode. All hard mode is is you only get one health. It doesn't change the ending. (though you can skip the cutscenes in hard mode) Plus a lot of short cuts in Drill Dozer involve getting hurt, so you lose a lot of stuff when you only have one health.
The GBA Castlevania games are also a good example of games that shouldn't be TAS'ed on hard mode. Everything is identical except the player does less damage, so the fights take longer. They aren't any more entertaining, they just slow down the pace of the run.
I think there are many games where a higher difficulty level makes it less entertaining, because the difficulty would slow down a TAS.
For example, in Rainbow Six, it's possible to dash through every level without stopping at the low difficulty level, but the high difficulty level requires taking it slowly (in some levels, running causes an instant loss), hiding behind cover, etc. Some people may prefer gunfights where the player is constantly hiding and breaking cover to fire a couple shots, but I wouldn't. I prefer a low-difficulty run that sprints through levels like a madman, strafing enemies and tossing grenades around without missing a beat.
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DarkKobold wrote:
I hate how new games incorporate a 'training session' into every new game.
It's gonna be a bitch to TAS xbox, 360, ps2, and etc games someday, because the training missions CAN'T BE SKIPPED.
Does anyone else play a brand new game (GTA4, assasin's creed, etc) and think about the TAS?
Actually, yes! I think about TASes on every game I see now. And DS games too.
Even the Zelda games starting with OOT have a ton of hand holding. Off the top of my head, there must be 20 pages of text in OOT that basically reads from the instruction manual. And then there's the famous sword errand in the beginning. All that hand holding is definitely annoying during speed runs. Or even just playing the game a second time. (Who does that?!) Actually, I just played Mega Man X8 for the first time, and apparently I have to beat the game twice? What is this, Ghouls and Ghosts? :)
Also, I'm worried that the scope of the newer games kind of defys making a nice one-sitting run. DQ8 is never going to get a nice run like DQ3 did. Even Mario is kind of epic now. You gotta do 60 or 70 levels of your choice from 15 different worlds? Plus random boss battles? What happened to my 12 levels + warp whistles? Crap. CAN'T BE SKIPPED. ;)
For example, in Rainbow Six, it's possible to dash through every level without stopping at the low difficulty level, but the high difficulty level requires taking it slowly (in some levels, running causes an instant loss), hiding behind cover, etc. Some people may prefer gunfights where the player is constantly hiding and breaking cover to fire a couple shots, but I wouldn't. I prefer a low-difficulty run that sprints through levels like a madman, strafing enemies and tossing grenades around without missing a beat.
IMO in a game like Rainbow Six the whole charm of a tool-assisted run would be to see the runner find the optimal superhuman strategy at the highest difficulty level. Just dashing through the level at the easiest difficulty level may have its merits, but it would be, IMO, relatively boring in the end.
A regular speedrun of a Rainbow Six-style game at the highest difficulty level might get a bit boring because of human limitations (iow. it might get boring because the player will be constantly just hiding and waiting for the proper opportunity, etc), but all these limitations are removed in a TAS.
I would say I have the total opposite opinion than you: It's precisely when higher difficulty level affects playing strategy that makes the run more interesting.
