In a LJ and diving sense there is a forward momentum cap, I believe that sliding doesn't have a cap either, since some very steep slopes allow you to build up speeds so you can double jump ridiculous distances. Unfourtunatly you're unlikely to find any use for it in a TAS, but I guess you could implement a situation where its useful in a hack.
for LJ's and diving the momentum goes on and on until you do another AB or ZA for a longjump/dive/jumpdive.
But if you never hit the ground, the momentum would go on and on.
As for sliding there is a max sliding speed I believe.
Joined: 4/2/2008
Posts: 103
Location: The Netherlands
How are the values stored? It would be vaguely amusing if you could design a (massive) area so that the value would overflow and you'd stop dead for no apparent reason after going at light speed :P
How are the values stored? It would be vaguely amusing if you could design a (massive) area so that the value would overflow and you'd stop dead for no apparent reason after going at light speed :P
If they are stored as floating point numbers, they can't overflow, they just get less and less precise. And I'm not sure but I think fixed-point doesn't overflow either.
Anyway, if there is no cap on forward motion, and assuming BLJ's are used because forward motion causes mario to enter the "knocked back" state when he collides with a wall at a high enough speed..., does that mean that forward long jump spamming could reach the same speeds as BLJing in areas where walls aren't used (such as on staircase edges)? Not that it would really be useful since those areas tend to be small and reversing speed helps mario spend longer on them and so on, but thought I'd ask.
If they are stored as floating point numbers, they can't overflow, they just get less and less precise. And I'm not sure but I think fixed-point doesn't overflow either.
Not quite. All finite length binary representations overflow (floating point, fixed point, etc.). The intuition is that if you have N bits to represent a number, there are only 2^N different numbers you can represent, and there is always some number bigger than all 2^N possibilities. That's overflow.
What actually happens when the number overflows in a game is subject to hardware and software implementation.
Joined: 3/17/2007
Posts: 97
Location: Berkeley, CA
You're missing his point. Of course there's a maximum which can't be exceeded, but that doesn't mean repeatedly adding a near-constant acceleration will cause overflow. Instead, the exponent would get so big that the acceleration would round down to zero when you added it in...
How are the values stored? It would be vaguely amusing if you could design a (massive) area so that the value would overflow and you'd stop dead for no apparent reason after going at light speed :P
If they are stored as floating point numbers, they can't overflow, they just get less and less precise. And I'm not sure but I think fixed-point doesn't overflow either.
Anyway, if there is no cap on forward motion, and assuming BLJ's are used because forward motion causes mario to enter the "knocked back" state when he collides with a wall at a high enough speed..., does that mean that forward long jump spamming could reach the same speeds as BLJing in areas where walls aren't used (such as on staircase edges)? Not that it would really be useful since those areas tend to be small and reversing speed helps mario spend longer on them and so on, but thought I'd ask.
lj'ing in blj areas forwards doesn't build up speed. it's the same as sliding. if you slide forwards, you stop when you land. if you slide backwards, you start running backwards at hyper speed when you land. and AKA, no, there's no cap for the dive/LJ speed. it keeps increasing until you hit the ground. for dives, landing to roll doesn't cap the speed, only landing after the roll. yes, even if you dive again at the first possible frame.
:P I'm so used to saying blj. I meant getting mario stuck in the same way
btw, this is a much faster strat for wall kicks will work than in previous runs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaDYDW2nxAU
In short, you can't "BLJ" forwards because every new longjump resets acceleration. Wallkicks are special in the fact that if you press "A" on the first frame possible for a wallkick, you will keep building up speed. If you double jump from that wallkick, you lose a significant amount of speed, much like jumping in a BLJ.
That's really cool how Mario accelerates almost endlessly from wall kicks.
I want to see Mario leave the wall kick area and travel from one end of a level to the other at this speed though. Seems like all you need is two close walls that connect to a ceiling, am I right?
How about this:
Enter Tiny-Huge Island with tiny Mario and big Island. Go to the stone square that creates black balls. Do a ton of wall kicks inside the square and make sure Mario leaves the square facing the water. Then let's see how many frames it takes for Mario to hit the invisible wall on the other side of the water. Sound good?
Myles
Yes, you're right, for "infinite" speed, you need that specific set up. The first time I discovered it I was doing it in BitDW, by the pipe. I used the slope to go fast then did wallkicks over and over, using the switch to double jump on and wallkick off of the stairs. This doesn't work too well, though I did get enough speed to go through the stairs, and I could also go through the mushroom-like structure with the spike on the top and the red coin.
But I would guess if you had enough speed and the walls are thick enough, you wouldn't have enough frames to wallkick in time. And something to mention is you have to wallkick on the first frame possible to retain your speed. If you see stars your speed just resets.
As for your idea, I might try it later.
Enter Tiny-Huge Island with tiny Mario and big Island. Go to the stone square that creates black balls. Do a ton of wall kicks inside the square and make sure Mario leaves the square facing the water. Then let's see how many frames it takes for Mario to hit the invisible wall on the other side of the water. Sound good?
Myles
Attempting to obtain the impossible to reach coin in that level?
And I was the one to discover that the velocity keeps increasing through wallkicks D:
Silent_Slayers wrote:
In short, you can't "BLJ" forwards because every new longjump resets acceleration. Wallkicks are special in the fact that if you press "A" on the first frame possible for a wallkick, you will keep building up speed. If you double jump from that wallkick, you lose a significant amount of speed, much like jumping in a BLJ.
Exactly. Except BLJ's are special, since they build up speed much faster than keeping a LJ going.
Can you leave the pillar and travel with hyper-speed? Maybe it will be more time consuming to build up that speed but it is worth it to test it.
Another idea I came up with is that you can actually can get more stars capless if you wall-kick and "fly" through walls that need the vanish cap:
Course 5, Big Boo's Haunt (1) - Eye to Eye in the Secret Room
Course 10, Snowman's Land (1) - Into the Igloo
Course 5, Big Boo's Haunt (1) - Eye to Eye in the Secret Room, because that requires the Vanish Cap
Course 10, Snowman's Land (1) - Into the Igloo, because you can't avoid coins on the way
Course 5, Big Boo's Haunt (1) - Eye to Eye in the Secret Room, because that requires the Vanish Cap
Course 10, Snowman's Land (1) - Into the Igloo, because you can't avoid coins on the way
How about the wall-kicks to build up speed?
I was thinking this too (after seeing that wall kick video)... seems reasonable, especially in a TAS. This would be awesome, too :)
I just thought of something. What if you only did the stars that require different strategies in a CCC run in CCC runs? The rule would be somewhat arbitrary for coins, but it would make it less similar to 100% runs. Maybe this could be accepted as a concept demo then?
