Bloobiebla's Child Route Avi
Here is the MegaUpload Link for those of you who want a much more high quality video than the mediafire one.
45min, 370mb
@bkdj
The sound doesnt desync very noticeably in this video for some reason, I think that it could be that the lower the filesize the worse that problem gets. I still dont know any way to remedy the situation unfortunately other than to not compress the file after the intial recording, in which case the avi would be huge
In that case you'll greeted by backwalking during the adult segment.
Actually the only cases where it's faster to backwalk will be long enough of a stretch to use a superslide so there will still be minimal backwalking
Also thankyou chaosv1 for the AVIs that's really helpful
i didnt follow the thread now for weeks but i heared you can skip the temple of time door so why does the current avi posted some posts above here kill all 3 bosses? do you need them for something etc ? i dont know
i didnt follow the thread now for weeks but i heared you can skip the temple of time door so why does the current avi posted some posts above here kill all 3 bosses? do you need them for something etc ? i dont know
Bloobiebla is making a movie which completes all the temples to put it short.
Bloobiebla wrote:
Well it's definitely far from "as intended", because tons of tricks are used to skip portions of temples, but in a more entertaining way than using RBA. Any optimal tricks/glitches that don't use RBA are being used in the temples
In that case you'll greeted by backwalking during the adult segment.
Actually the only cases where it's faster to backwalk will be long enough of a stretch to use a superslide so there will still be minimal backwalking
I dont know if thats what you mean, but I did some research on speed values a while back and balkwalking as an adult is actually faster than sidehopping. I posted the research on SDA ill see if I can find it and post it here
Supersliding is always 27 and undeniably the fastest method of travel
Constantly Backflipping is always 9 regardless of boots or age
Sidehopping is always 12.75 regardless of boots or age
Child:
-Sidehopping --> Fastest non-superslide method
-Backwalking and rolling is 12.375
-Normal walking is 8.25
-Diagonal walking is 7.42
Adult:
Normal Boots:
-Backwalking and rolling =13.5---->Fastest non-superslide method
-Normal walking = 9
-Diagonal walking = 8.1
Iron Boots:
-Backwalking and rolling = 6.75
-Normal walking = 4.5
-Diagonal walking = 1.8 (slowest method of travel)
Hover Boots:
-All the max values for hover boots are the same as if you were a child, plus the acceleration delay, so wearing these and walking for long distances should be avoided
Comicalflop wrote:
I don't recommend HISSing at parties though, people will think you're a snake.
Sidehopping is faster for short distances since the time to set up a backwalk/reach the level of speed faster than sidehopping takes more time for small areas. Also angle changing from backwalk to backwalk or from backwalk to sidehop takes more time than from sidehop to sidehop. Backwalking is faster than sidehopping for long, flat stretches since the time wasted accelerating is eventually made up for, therefore a superslide would be used. It just takes a lot of testing in certain areas and it IS being used occasionally.
EDIT: Also on hills, sidehopping is the fastest over backwalking no matter how long or short the stretch is
EDIT: Also on hills, sidehopping is the fastest over backwalking no matter how long or short the stretch is
That is actually wrong, on uphills its slower because Link's feet touches the ground more constantly which loses speed. On downslopes it is faster since he has more air time.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Wrong again! You'll find that Sidehopping's speed starts off faster than backwalking at the start of the sidehop, in the middle it lowers, and then at the end it goes higher. Sidehopping uphills is faster than backwalking because one of the fast parts of a sidehop, the beginning, is repeated via ground cancelling.
That might be the case for MM but in OoT sidehops are the same speed thoughtout apart from when you land and it drops for a short period. Normally sidehopping is 8.5 but it drops to 7.5 when Link lands. On a flat surface Link lands on the ground every 21 frames on steep slopes Link lands on the ground every 9 frames.
Haha this is annoying, I just like testing different types of walking and seeing which is fastest. This debate could go on for a long time. I'm sure it differentiates constantly.
That might be the case for MM but in OoT sidehops are the same speed thoughtout apart from when you land and it drops for a short period. Normally sidehopping is 8.5 but it drops to 7.5 when Link lands. On a flat surface Link lands on the ground every 21 frames on steep slopes Link lands on the ground every 9 frames.
Hello, 1rst post here :-)
This discussion on Link's speed had been ongoing literally for year ! This is quite embarrassing given the fact that 1. we have access to the instant speed value in memory and 2. character speed is one of the the most important aspect of a game, if not the most !!!
We saw some scientific attempt to do a complete list of Link's speed in every possible situation (chaosv1 for example), but what's really needed, since the speed is not constant during a given motion is an INTEGRATION of that speed over time (while also taking into account the linear displacement if physics engine is not accurate or if sliding occurs. Otherwise, integration of instantaneous speed over frames should be sufficient on it's own to calculate the accurate average speed)
The best solution would be to have access to memory values corresponding to XYZ coordinates of Link's position to make an accurate estimation, especially for Z, but landmarks could also be used to calibrate the measurements.
So, what's really needed (and actually a bit painfull to do) is:
- Select a completely horizontal area (relatively large)
- Select 2-3 areas with different slopes (again sufficiently large and flat)
- Backwalk and sidehop through these areas between 2 lanmarks (uphill & downhill, kid & adult)
(or between 2 positions defined by their coordinates)
- Record instant speed value on every frame and calculate the average speed (in voxels per frame ? Link's foot size per second ?)
That should give at last the ultimate answer regarding the fastest way to travel in OOT (hopefully :-)
Of course, things are a bit complicated by motion initiation (sidehopping starting faster than backwalking ?) and turning time & angles. This is less important for average to long distances, but then you can add the superslide factor and things gets a little messy :-) Well, at least all this would become more easily testable with true average speed values...especially if you know beforehand the distance you have to travel.
I hope that this does not sound too authoritarian for a 1rst post ! I may try to do this if I find some time before someone else does...
I didnt realize there was acceleration delay because when I tested it I used project64 which doesnt have frame advance. I went and found the address on mupen and used frame advance to check and for backwalking it takes child link ~23 frames after holding back, to accelerate to full backwalking speed while link goes from 0 to full speed ~6 frames when sidehopping,
I will try and be more through and post the results later, but until then if any1 is interested, This is the program I used, plus I added the address for motion to it. All you do is run mupen, click on the open process button in it and select mupen. Then find the little folder icon, click it and select Mupen Motion Values.cht
Comicalflop wrote:
I don't recommend HISSing at parties though, people will think you're a snake.
Bloobiebla's Child Route Avi
Here is the MegaUpload Link for those of you who want a much more high quality video than the mediafire one.
45min, 370mb
@bkdj
The sound doesnt desync very noticeably in this video for some reason, I think that it could be that the lower the filesize the worse that problem gets. I still dont know any way to remedy the situation unfortunately other than to not compress the file after the intial recording, in which case the avi would be huge
character speed is one of the the most important aspect of a game, if not the most !!!
Character speed is definately not the most important aspect of the game. The most time differences in different (but close) character speeds is about a few seconds. Not that a few seconds isn't alot, but glitches and routes are way more important, and can save various amounts of time.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there not one single aspect that makes exploiting a game possible. The idea is to master every element that would make you faster and they're all equally important.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there not one single aspect that makes exploiting a game possible. The idea is to master every element that would make you faster and they're all equally important.
You are wrong, programming errors are what makes the game exploitable :) [/literalness]
All arguments aside there really should be a place for OoT speed values, major factor or not. If im not mistaken TASing is about the pursuit of perfection and this would make any run that much closer to being perfect
Comicalflop wrote:
I don't recommend HISSing at parties though, people will think you're a snake.
So anyway I went and did a bunch of frame by frame testing and heres what I have found out so far....
-Before I start, since all visuals, and also motion values, update every 3 frames I will refer to 3 frame groups as triads(for lack of a better term)
Sidehopping is MUCH faster than backwalking as a child, no surprise there, but the more interesting bit was sidehopping,
-Regardless of terrain, Link always goes through set number of triads in which the speed remains constantly 12.75, and in the last triad before link touches ground, his speed slows to 11.25.
-To maintain maximum speed you must press A anywhere in the last triad before the speed slows to 11.25(frames 16,17,18 on flat ground). That rule applies to all terrain.
-Therefore the speed does not vary except during the triad before link touches ground(when link does touch ground the value changes back to 12.75). So this makes uphill sidehopping slowest because link touches the ground constantly, making link revert to 11.25 more often, followed by flat surfaces because he touches the ground less, followed by downhill because he touches the ground the least.
Ill post the data and a small demonstration .m64 that I made if anyone wants to see it, and I am going to see the differences in adult backwalk/sidehop later so we can hopefully finally close this debate
Comicalflop wrote:
I don't recommend HISSing at parties though, people will think you're a snake.
Sidehopping as YL is MARGINALY faster than backwalking. Where as backwalking as AL is MUCH faster than sidehopping.
Actually while the maximum speed of sidehopping is only Marginally greater than the maximum speed of backwalking as YL, backwalking has a delay of 4 triads in which link's speed is 0, followed by a speed of 2.25 for 1 triad, 4.5 for 1 triad, 6.75 for 1 triad, 9 for 1 triad, 11.25 for 1 triad, and then finally reaches maximum speed.
It takes link 9 triads or 27 frames to reach maximum speed during backwalking, while sidehopping reaches maximum speed in 7-10 frames.
This means in 10 triads, or 30 frames, backwalking would move link 46.125 units, while sidehopping on flat ground would move link ~87.75 units. Thats almost twice as fast, and even uphill, the slowest form of sidehopping, would still be significantly faster than backwalking
And as an adult I just discovered everything is the same except the max speed of backwalking is 13.5. So actually sidehopping is faster than backwalking as an adult for exactly 24 triads or 72 frames and a distance of 614.25 units. After that backwalking is faster than sidehopping.
Comicalflop wrote:
I don't recommend HISSing at parties though, people will think you're a snake.
Here's a TAS I did for fun of the Deku Tree/slingshot skip
http://rapidshare.com/files/118903907/Deku_TreeTAS.rar.html
This could be improved by a few frames if the Skullwalltullas had better placement. I wasn't too serious about this run though, so i didn't really worry about it.
Also, in order to watch it, make sure the 2 files are in the same folder
