Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
stickyman05 wrote:
under the submissions, have a link to _every_ submission that person has sent.
That's where http://tasvideos.org/Subs-1up.html works. The link "list all submissions of this submitter" is shown on any submission of the author (not on the forums though).
Joined: 2/26/2007
Posts: 1365
Location: Minnesota
Oh, wow. That is neat. Thanks for the info (again, Bisqwit to the rescue ;) )
adelikat wrote:
I very much agree with this post.
Bobmario511 wrote:
Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.
Post subject: An idea plus nitpicking
Editor, Expert player (2477)
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Idea It might be fun to have all the the movie tags (manipulates luck, abuses programming errors, etc.) listed in the player profiles, not just the game genres the player has covered. Nitpicking I noticed a slight flaw in upthorn's profile. It says that "upthorn and nitsuja" is a different team than "Nitsuja and Upthorn", so upthorn is listed as having participated in 4 teams instead of the real 3. Naturally, nitsuja's profile has the same flaw. Notice also the inconsistency in the capitalization of the nicknames. Extreme Nitpicking In the players page, most of the "also known as" abbreviations are written as "aka.", but some of them are written as "aka" without the dot. I would fix it myself, but editing that particular page seems to be forbidden for editors. That page also still has "nesvideos - players" instead of "TASVideos - players" in the page title.
Former player
Joined: 12/27/2006
Posts: 532
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Why are cancelled submissions counted as gruefood? Shouldn't that be preserved for rejected ones?
My published movies [03:45:05] <Naohiro19> Soulrivers: ... [03:45:19] <Soulrivers> ? [03:46:35] <Naohiro19> <Soulrivers> No! <Naohiro19> So? <Soulrivers> Yes! [03:46:48] <Naohiro19> joke
Skilled player (1409)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
Since this topic was bumped, I guess I can ask again after a year. Aren't there any opinions on the idea I posted above? It would be nice to get some reactions on that... I still think it's a good idea. Bisqwit said he wanted ideas, and wanted changes... and while he somewhat responded, he didn't say whether or not he thought it was a good idea.
Post subject: Re: An idea plus nitpicking
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Aqfaq wrote:
some of them are written as "aka" without the dot
Thanks for informing. It has been fixed now. Re: Nesvideos, I prefer to keep that old name in a few places for better search engine visibility.
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Baxter wrote:
Since this topic was bumped, I guess I can ask again after a year. Aren't there any opinions on the idea I posted above? It would be nice to get some reactions on that... I still think it's a good idea. Bisqwit said he wanted ideas, and wanted changes... and while he somewhat responded, he didn't say whether or not he thought it was a good idea.
Sorry for ignoring your idea. I am still a bit uncomfortable with the idea of putting the players on a scalar line. But still, it is slightly better than nothing at all. Maybe I'll still end up implementing that in a form or another, since it's the most complete idea of all that we have had.
Banned User
Joined: 12/23/2004
Posts: 1850
Soulrivers wrote:
Why are cancelled submissions counted as gruefood? Shouldn't that be preserved for rejected ones?
No, because then it would be a rush to cancel a submission instead of having it rejected. (Personally, though, I see little reason to show rejected/cancelled runs in the statistics at all.)
Perma-banned
Lord_Tom
He/Him
Expert player (3142)
Joined: 5/25/2007
Posts: 399
Location: New England
There's a lot I like about Baxter's idea, but share Bisqwit's reluctance to distill players down to a single 'score.' My idea for player ranks is separately assign keywords for number and quality of movies made, and combine then to construct a rank. Thus (for example): # of movies currently published: 1-3: Contributing 4-6: Active 7-9: Workhorse 10-15: Prolific 16+: Super-Prolific Average (or median) rating of all published movies: <6.0: Dilettante 6.01-7.0: Achiever 7.01-8.0: Afficionado 8.01+: Superstar Some players' ranks then would be: Adelikat: Super-Prolific Afficionado (27 movies, average rating 7.25) Cardboard: Prolific Afficionado (10 movies, average rating 7.6) Aqfaq: Workhorse Achiever (9 movies, average rating 6.8) Me: Active Afficionado (5 movies, average rating 7.55) Chamale: Contributing Dilettante (2 movies, average rating 5.45) Scumtron: Contributing Superstar (3 movies, average rating 8.3) I like this system because it's descriptive; rather than a system with a clearly identifiable "best" and "worst" TAS'er. For instance, who is a better TAS'er, Aqfaq or Scumtron? I don't know, and using this system the site isn't shoving an answer down people's throats.
Experienced player (828)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
Lord Tom wrote:
There's a lot I like about Baxter's idea, but share Bisqwit's reluctance to distill players down to a single 'score.' My idea for player ranks is separately assign keywords for number and quality of movies made, and combine then to construct a rank. Thus (for example): # of movies currently published: 1-3: Contributing 4-6: Active 7-9: Workhorse 10-15: Prolific 16+: Super-Prolific Average (or median) rating of all published movies: <6.0: Dilettante 6.01-7.0: Achiever 7.01-8.0: Afficionado 8.01+: Superstar
I like this idea a lot; it looks like a simplified (and much, much cleaner) version of what I suggested a year and a half ago on the previous page. [EDIT]: I'm unsure if using movie rankings are the best variable to use, There has been a lot of (justifiable) complaints about them being biased.[/EDIT] However, I still think this:
mmbossman in April 2007 wrote:
I think that people who manage this site and contribute beyond the normal call of duty (i.e. judges, encoders/publishers, and editors), should be given a single title superseding all other parts of the rank. I had "Operator" in mind.
It helps provide a little distinction to the people who keep this site running and looking good. (Note that I suggested this before I was either an editor or judge)
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
while I agree with the concept, I disagree with the names of the ranks you've given (though I appreciate they were probably just off the top of your head). For example, someone can have 4-6 movies published and be quite inactive. Also, I can't help but feel that the rank of "Superstar" might go to some people's heads :)
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
Experienced player (828)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
I just realized that Lord Tom's suggestion would leave roughly 90% of the TASvideos population without a rank, since they don't have a published movie. And because of perceived problems with the rating system, I think that variable could be replaced by one referencing forum posts. So:
Lord Tom wrote:
Thus (for example): # of movies currently published: 1-3: Contributing 4-6: Active 7-9: Workhorse 10-15: Prolific 16+: Super-Prolific
0 movies published: Watching # of forum posts: 0-10: Newbie 11-50: Talker 51-250: xxxx 250-1000: xxxx 1001- : xxxx Couldn't think up any good names for the xxxx's since it's late, but you get the idea. EDIT: I also just realized that this is a slightly more detailed version of what we already have. Time to get some sleep, I guess :P
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Lord_Tom
He/Him
Expert player (3142)
Joined: 5/25/2007
Posts: 399
Location: New England
Raiscan wrote:
while I agree with the concept, I disagree with the names of the ranks you've given (though I appreciate they were probably just off the top of your head). For example, someone can have 4-6 movies published and be quite inactive. Also, I can't help but feel that the rank of "Superstar" might go to some people's heads :)
Yeah, the names were just examples, though I think they're along the right lines. Perhaps we could replace 'Superstar' with 'Jerk' to discourage people from sitting on one or two highly ranked runs...;) I think that inactive user's ranks will self-correct (perhaps over years) as other players obsolete their movies. And if no one does obsolete their movies, well, IMO they deserve to keep their rank. As to not having a rank for 90% of the users, my system was for players only. I personally don't see merit in giving descriptive terms based on forum posts (the # of posts is right there!) but don't object either. I prefer to use movie rating because, imperfect though the rating system may be, it's all we have and could be improved in the future. For non-players, I think mmbossman's ideas are right on, though.
Skilled player (1409)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
Lord Tom wrote:
There's a lot I like about Baxter's idea, but share Bisqwit's reluctance to distill players down to a single 'score.' My idea for player ranks is separately assign keywords for number and quality of movies made, and combine then to construct a rank.
Well, there is a reason why I wanted to put it into a single number. I am very much against the fact of using an average (or median) rating of all published movies, for a reason I stated before:
Baxter wrote:
No, it is important that it's NOT based on average rating. A movie with a low rating will get your average down, while it might just have a low rating since the game isn't popular. The movies quality might be perfectly good, and the fact that you made it should ADD to your score, not lower it. Of course, higher rated movies are appreciated more, and that's why X should probably be bigger than 1. But all the movies you made should add to your score, positively of course (since the movies are published, they are considered as good for the site, so it also should be good for your score).
You should understand that with your system someone with a single published movie that has an 8.1 would be a "Contributing Superstar". If he makes 2 more TASes, which might be of good quality, but of games that are less popular, and these two TASes both score a 4.0 then his new average would be about a 5.4... and his new rank would be a "Contributing Dilettante"... and like I said: since the movies are published, they are considered as good for the site, so it also should be good for your score. For my suggestion, they would all count positive to your score. The value of X in my formula should be bigger than 1, since a single movie that has an 8 is probably more appreciated than two movies that have a 4. I like it that stuff is being suggested, and being talked about though... I just don't think average values are the right choice.
Joined: 10/15/2007
Posts: 685
I wouldn't be in favor of ego-stroking user titles so much as carrying over the number of submissions or even perhaps average movie score rating into their profiles. The data is a bit on the superfluous side for a message board either way, but it would be a lot less presumptuous than another set of user titles.
Kirby said so, so it must be true. ( >'.')>
Experienced player (828)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
Just a friendly bump here for a nudge towards progress :)
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Baxter's proposal has now been activated with great help from him in the last stages of planning. Admins note: The User editor on the main site is not yet fully upgraded to handle these ranks (as they're automatic anyway).
Experienced player (828)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
This looks good, and I think the system you and Baxter developed fits well. Thanks for getting this done!
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Skilled player (1443)
Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden
Could someone who was part of making this chage go through how it works? Like what ranks there are and how they are separated.
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Cpadolf wrote:
Could someone who was part of making this chage go through how it works? Like what ranks there are and how they are separated.
BaxterRank := SUM of (movie_rating ^ 2.5 / number_of_authors ^ 0.5 / (If movie is obsoleted, 1/0.000001, else 1)) for each movie the author has been listed as player. If BaxterRank = 0 AND user has contributed movies, BaxterRank := 0.000000000001 If BaxterRank > 0 AND user does not have a special rank (coder etc.): If BaxterRank < 1 THEN rank:='Former Player' ElseIf BaxterRank < 250 THEN rank:='Player' ElseIf BaxterRank < 500 THEN rank:='Active player' ElseIf BaxterRank < 1000 THEN rank:='Experienced player' ElseIf BaxterRank < 2000 THEN rank:='Skilled player' Else rank:='Expert player' EndIf EndIf
Skilled player (1409)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
Ok, in this post I will try to explain how the new ranking system works. It will be a little similar to my previous post explaining this, but I'll add the specifics: The following formula will give a result for all players with a published movie: - Take the rating of one of your published movies to the power of X. - Divide it by the number of authors of that movie to the power of Y. - Do this for all your published movies and add the numbers you get, this will give you your result. - N is your total amount of published movies. - X should be determined on how important high ratings are considered. For instance, if X=0, then ratings don't matter at all, and only the amount of movies is considered. If X=1, you will just be adding the ratings of your movies. If X is bigger than 1, movies with higher ratings will count heavier. It is probably good if X is bigger 1, since generally, one movie with a rating of 9.0 is liked better than two movies with a rating of 4.5 - Y should be determined by how much team movies count. If Y=0, the authors will both get the full amount of points for the movie, the same amount an author would get if he had made the movie alone. If Y=1, you divide the amount of points a movie would get equally of the authors. The most logical value for Y is probably somewhere between 0 and 1. - Lets call the result of the summation Z. Now that every player with a published movie has a result, these results can be listed. This is done here You will need to put in values for X and Y in order to change the list. Once X and Y are determined, certain ranges of results must be grouped together if the result is: Bigger than 0, smaller than A --> rank 1 Bigger than A, smaller than B --> rank 2 ..... Bigger than E --> rank 5 Then the names of those ranks needed to be determined. =============================================== Specifics: Determining X: As already stated, X needs to be higher than 1 to account for the fact that a single movie rated a 9 is appreciated more than two movies rated a 4.5. One can ask him/herself the question: How many movies rated a 5 are worth a movie I would rate a 10? Or, 100 movies rated a 9 are worth howmany movies rated an 8? Here are some answers to those questions for several X values: X=2: 4 of your 5 ratings are worth one 10 rating, 100 of your 9 ratings are worth 126 of your 8 ratings X=2.5: 5.5 of your 5 ratings are worth one 10 rating, 100 of your 9 ratings are worth 134 of your 8 ratings X=3: 8 of your 5 ratings are worth one 10 rating, 100 of your 9 ratings are worth 142 of your 8 ratings X=3.5: 11.3 of your 5 ratings are worth one 10 rating, 100 of your 9 ratings are worth 151 of your 8 ratings X=4: 16 of your 5 ratings are worth one 10 rating, 100 of your 9 ratings are worth 160 of your 8 ratings After some thought, and asking some opinions, I determined that X = 2.5 seems like an appropriate value. Determining Y As stated before: "If Y=0, the authors will both get the full amount of points for the movie, the same amount an author would get if he had made the movie alone. If Y=1, you divide the amount of points a movie would get equally of the authors. The most logical value for Y is probably somewhere between 0 and 1." At Y = 0.5, it means that for being a part of a 4-player movie, you half the score you would get from it if you have made that movie alone. If you made a 2-player team movie, you will get about 0.7 times the score of what you would have gotten if you made this TAS on your own. These two values of X=2.5 and Y=0.5 seems reasonable, and create the following list. Here is a table that tells you which ratings will add howmany points to your score with X=2.5, and what fraction of those points you will get in a teammovie with Y=0.5:
Rating:  Score:     Players:  Fraction:
0.0        0.00     1         1.0000
0.5        0.18     2         0.7071
1.0        1.00     3         0.5774
1.5        2.76     4         0.5000
2.0        5.66     5         0.4472
2.5        9.88
3.0       15.59
3.5       22.92
4.0       32.00
4.5       42.96
5.0       55.90
5.5       70.94
6.0       88.18
6.5      107.72
7.0      129.64
7.5      154.05
8.0      181.02
8.5      210.64
9.0      243.00
9.5      278.17
10.0     316.23
Determining the ranges: Obsoleted movies will have their score multiplied by a really low number. This way, they are still accounted for, and people without any currently published movies can still get a player rank. These would have a result between 0 and 1. People with a single published movie will get the player rank. The question would be, from what result they would go one rank up. Eventually it was determined that a result of 250 would be a good value. To get 250, you either need 3 movies with 5.8, 2 movies with 6.9 or 1 movie with 9.1. This seemed like a good requirement to move on a rank. So the player rank was is given at values from 1 - 250 The next rank you get when you double that, at 500, and the next again when you double it to 1000, and finally when you double to to 2000. The list of the result for all player gave a somewhat exponential curve, so even though the ranges get higher, the amount of people occupying the ranks get lower. After that the names of the ranks had to be thought up. Here are the results of this, listed with the amount of people at this moment:
0    < Z <    1:   51 people  - Former Player
1    < Z <  250:  111 people  - Player
250  < Z <  500:   33 people  - Active Player
500  < Z < 1000:   22 people  - Experienced Player
1000 < Z < 2000:    7 people  - Skilled Player
2000 < Z       :    5 people  - Expert Player
You can also somewhat see the people with their ranks here. (Note that the table for instance says 5 expert players, and the page only say 4, which is due to Nitsuja currently being labelled a "Coder".)
Skilled player (1826)
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Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
*Raises fist* Damn you Baxter, 0.9 points ahead of me... ;) Honestly though, good job on the list, it was quite interesting to take a look at.
Lord_Tom
He/Him
Expert player (3142)
Joined: 5/25/2007
Posts: 399
Location: New England
Bravo! Looking at the list, it seems like a very reasonable result. Even though my idea didn't get chosen, (sniffle), I'm very pleased that this was done. Randil: Too bad Baxter chose such round values for his constants (2.5, 0.5)...had he so narrowly edged you and the values were (3.4752, 0.232877) you'd have been entitled to some serious indignation...;)
Skilled player (1409)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
Lord Tom wrote:
Bravo! Looking at the list, it seems like a very reasonable result. Even though my idea didn't get chosen, (sniffle), I'm very pleased that this was done. Randil: Too bad Baxter chose such round values for his constants (2.5, 0.5)...had he so narrowly edged you and the values were (3.4752, 0.232877) you'd have been entitled to some serious indignation...;)
One should note that these values are constantly changing as people are rating, new movies get published, and old ones obsoleted. In this particular case, there will probably be a zelda "second quest" movie published some time in the near future... so the fact that the results are really close now is rather arbitrary.
Joined: 2/26/2007
Posts: 1365
Location: Minnesota
So what does "forum Player" mean? Didn't notice it upon a quick scan of the topic.
adelikat wrote:
I very much agree with this post.
Bobmario511 wrote:
Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.