Posted: 3/31/2008 2:23 AM
(Edited: 4/10/2008 1:05 AM)
Post subject: I'm running "Trax" (need opinions if it's good)
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Pekopon
Former player
Joined: 10/6/2007
Posts: 330
Location: B.C Canada
Since I've given up on KDL3, and am stalling Lady Sia, I thought I would take a crack at Trax to keep me busy. I like short GB games. Trax is a game by HAL where you are a little tank that has to shoot it's way through the level without getting blown up. (the tank later becomes an enemy cameo in Kirby Super Star) It's a short game that might not really be TAS-able, but I'm taking a shot, (so to speak) and seeing what the people think. The unfortunate part about TASing this game is that it is pretty much all about lag reduction, making this quite tricky to run. I was a little ways into the run before I discovered you turn faster by repeatedly pressing the (A) button, rather than holding it. This game gets a lot harder in later levels (which there aren't many of) Getting power-ups makes it easier to kill enemies, but it's not worth getting them since they can be out of the way, and the extra bullets you shoot cause tons of lag. Please tell me what you think. (This is my final version of level 1, taken from my last post) http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1212506432/My%20%20Retry%20of%20stage%201%20Trax%20%28U%29%20%5B%21%5D.vbm Rom: Trax (U) [!] Emulator used: VBA re-recording 19.3 No Bios Gameboy
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Posted: 3/31/2008 7:14 PM
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Pekopon
Former player
Joined: 10/6/2007
Posts: 330
Location: B.C Canada
Stage 1 complete. Though if Lady Sia has taught me anything, it's that you should play every level at least twice before continuing, so I'll probably try this a second time. (Better to redo something before you finish half of the run right?) I'm not gonna post any other WIPs except if I can improve stage one. It would be dumb to show the whole run in WIPs before submitting it. If anyone cares enough to see more WIPs, they can PM me. (though nobody seems to have taken notice to this yet.) http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/6727460/newestest%20Trax%20%28U%29%20%5B%21%5D.vbm EDIT: As I suspected, the first part where I didn't know how to turn quickly was majorly improved due to lag reduction. 54 frames to be exact. (from the start to where I chose to end) This means I will have to redo this whole level, which sucks since the boss was very hard to get a good time on, and I was never able to get that time again, and there was one particular part in this level that gave me TONS of trouble. I might try the first bit a few more times though, just to be safe. I figure this is a pretty easy game to TAS, so I'm really gonna take this run seriously. Lag reduction is what this run is all about.
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Posted: 3/31/2008 9:14 PM
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girfanatic501
Joined: 1/27/2008
Posts: 236
Location: Somewhere
I liked it. I really liked it. Too bad you have to redo it. But, if it is for a better time, it's worth it. Trust me. The miniboss/boss made me laugh :P. They die before the music even gets to start, basically.
See Youtube page (GIRfanaticTAS) for all runs and stuff.
Posted: 3/31/2008 9:26 PM
(Edited: 4/9/2008 11:56 PM)
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Pekopon
Former player
Joined: 10/6/2007
Posts: 330
Location: B.C Canada
I'm very glad you enjoyed it. Though at the current time comparing land mark, I've now saved 71 frames. While killing bad guys is important to reduce lag, I gotta figure out which ones I can skip since the bullets I shoot also cause lag. Oh, and the mid-boss doesn't have it's own music. I'm not sure if the end of level boss has his own music though. You don't get to hear music in the frame advance in VBA, which I always have on. I'm pretty sure I could improve the mid-boss, though even I laughed at the celebratory spin I did. Though if it causes lag, I shouldn't do that. EDIT 2: by the compare runs check point I'm at now I have saved 76 frames. EDIT: Semi-off topic, here is "Trax" in Kirby Super Star. That Hal loves to throw cameos of their own characters into other games they make. Trax in Kirby Super Star Kirby in Arcana Kirby in Pokemon Stadium 2 *edit* (changed to say Pokemon Stadium 2. I forgot the 2 at first) Hyper Zone in Kirby's Dream Land 3 Master Hand and Crazy Hand in Kirby and the Amazing Mirror Lolo and Lala in Kirby's Dream Land (renamed Lololo and Lalala) The brick guy in adventures of Lolo becomeing Blocky in Kirby's Dream Land 2. The special power sound effect in Adventures of Lolo being turned into the 1up sound in the Kirby series.
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Posted: 4/1/2008 7:21 PM
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MUGG
Editor, Expert player (2328)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3928
Location: Germany
Gameboy TASer of 2015 NES TAS of 2013 Gameboy TASer of 2011 Gameboy TASer of 2010
An "hit everything that can be destroyed"-run could be awesome.
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Posted: 4/1/2008 9:05 PM
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Pekopon
Former player
Joined: 10/6/2007
Posts: 330
Location: B.C Canada
That would be pretty cool. The only problem with that (if you weren't going for fastest time too) is that your tank can only have 2 of it's bullets on the screen at one time. I just got past the most annoying part of the first level again (aside from the boss) so the first level hopefully won't take a whole lot longer, since there is only one section left before the boss. The boss will be very hard to do as quickly as before. Trust me, this version is way better time wise and coolness wise. At the current compare runs checkpoint, I'm 115 frames ahead of my first attempt. Edit: A big discovery that saved a ton of lag time. There's those bomb things that cause the big explosions. I had to blow up two of them since there was no getting around it. In this second attempt, I was able to prevent the second bomb from blowing up by shooting an enemy bullet, thus preventing the bomb from blowing up. At this last run compare check point before the boss, I have saved 143 frames. I REALLY want to make it to an even 150, so I'm gonna have to spend a lot of time fighting the boss. I'm pretty sure that if you get hurt, your bullets don't do anything for a bit of your invincible time. I experimented this on the mid-boss and it seems to be true. I might be wrong, but getting hurt did slow the battle down one way or another. It's a bit of a mixed feeling. It's a better time, but somehow my first attempt looks a lot better at some points. Edit A HUGE discovery, yet a very confusing one to say the least. For the boss fight I assumed that the turbo button was the best choice. I then remembered that people say turbo often isn't a good idea. So I decided to fight the boss without turbo, and press B repeatedly while holding frame advance. I saved 118 frames without optimization Now this might also be because I shot at a different place, but I'm betting it's the turbo. I'm gonna try the turbo while shooting the place I was shooting this time and see if that's faster, slower, or the same.
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Posted: 4/2/2008 2:14 AM
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Pekopon
Former player
Joined: 10/6/2007
Posts: 330
Location: B.C Canada
My new stage 1. 278 frames faster due to better lag reduction, and a new discovery at the boss that made him way faster. Ignore the comment in the link. I accidentally typed improved stage 2 instead of 1. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1212506432/My%20%20Retry%20of%20stage%201%20Trax%20%28U%29%20%5B%21%5D.vbm Some parts actually look a little less impressive, but it saved time. I don't know if I should try the boss a few more times, but I'm very pleased with my time at this point. I think I'll take a few days off from this now. Edit: Trax TAS Production update! I had stalled on starting up again, but I've finally started level 2. There are only 4 levels and an end boss in this game, but it's still been pretty hard due to lag reduction. If you don't get rid of moving objects quickly, it could cost you up to 10 frames. Though the trucks that contain power ups don't effect it too much, and sometimes it causes extra lag if you shoot a bullet to kill it. If you just leave it alone, sometimes it'll save time.
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Posted: 4/10/2008 1:15 AM
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Pekopon
Former player
Joined: 10/6/2007
Posts: 330
Location: B.C Canada
I was wondering if some other people could check this out to see if it is a suitable game to TAS, and if it is any good or not. My final level 1 WIP is in the top post. At this point I'm still working on it, and I have no intension of dropping the project. I'm currently 3/4 through level 2, excluding the boss. I feel that there is a shockingly small amount of GB games on the site.
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Posted: 4/10/2008 2:36 AM
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mmbossman
Experienced player (828)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
GBx TAS of 2008
I think this is a pretty decent game, as long as it doesn't go on for 40 minutes. If it's of the 15 minute variety I'd say you should continue with it. The most annoying thing about it was the sound of the shooting that was so rapid that it just sounded like the game was breaking. As for the turbo shooting at the boss, I'd say this would be a good time for you to dabble in RAM watching. If the boss has some sort of strange invulnerability, it might help you save even more. Let me know if you have questions or whatever, I'll try to help out if possible.
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Posted: 4/10/2008 3:25 AM
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Pekopon
Former player
Joined: 10/6/2007
Posts: 330
Location: B.C Canada
Hmm... Never considered that. I really have no clue what I'm doing with that sort of thing though, and it seems like it involves math. If it involves any form of math, I'm sunk. I have a severe learning disability in math, so I'm pretty much useless when it comes to it. It would be frustrating to have to do the whole second level over again, but if I could save significant time, It might be worth it. I've never been able to figure out how to hex edit, so I usually just redo everything after the part I changed. I'm still a rookie at this stuff. :P If it comforts you any, a lot of people who have played this game complain about the sound effects.
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Posted: 4/10/2008 3:30 AM
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mmbossman
Experienced player (828)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
GBx TAS of 2008
The only math you need to know how to do for memory watching is "greater than" and "less than", for finding the addresses, and addition and subtraction (to figure out which methods are fastest). Everyone was a newb at some point. I had two runs published before I tried my hand at memory watching, and though it was very cumbersome at first. But now, I'd never try to TAS without it. It can help you make things so much more precise, and by proxy, usually much easier. As for hex editing, don't worry about that, if you find that you might need it, I can help you out.
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Posted: 4/10/2008 5:04 PM
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Pekopon
Former player
Joined: 10/6/2007
Posts: 330
Location: B.C Canada
I'll take a crack at memory watching. The faq is a little confusing though. Maybe a crash course of the basics? If this is a daunting request as it's probably complicated, don't feel obligated. If there is a website you can link me to that can help, that would be okay too. I know that boss fights are an important part to optimize, so I feel I should try it. I just want to know how much health the boss has, and how much damage one of my shots does. Maybe also if he has invincible time. This guy works pretty strange though, so I'm not sure if this would help. his death seems to be very random. As for the hex editing that would come after that, I would need help since I can never get that to work. But I'll worry about that when the time comes. One step at a time is what I say. Edit: Also, don't worry about it being long. I'm near the end of the second level, (of which there are only 4) and It's only 1 minute and 54 seconds long. The next 2 levels are longer though, and the final level is going to take a long time since you have to fight all of the bosses and mini bosses again. (except the boss in the first level thankfully) It's Similar to Kirby's Dream Land. Yet another concept HAL threw into a future game.
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Posted: 4/11/2008 11:27 PM
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Pekopon
Former player
Joined: 10/6/2007
Posts: 330
Location: B.C Canada
I've now finished level 2. Oh, and some more off topic stuff about Hal reusing stuff. The concept of fighting all of the bosses before the boss in Kirby's Dream Land was taken from Trax. The Chansey Mini-game in Pokemon Stadium 2 in the exact same concept as Egg Catcher from Kirby's Adventure. The concept of the Quick Draw Mini-games from Kirby's Adventure and Kirby Super Star were slightly modified for the Eevee game in Pokemon Stadium 2. The Eevee version's system was later used in Kirby and the Amazing Mirror in a mini game.
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Posted: 4/11/2008 11:39 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
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Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Well, some of those ideas are just general concepts--I don't know if HAL came up with using them in video games, but a lot of non-HAL video games have done them too.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 4/12/2008 2:04 AM
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Pekopon
Former player
Joined: 10/6/2007
Posts: 330
Location: B.C Canada
Yeah I know that. I know Quick draw wasn't something Hal invented. XD I'm just saying that they reused some stuff. Though I suppose all game companies do that. I suppose it was a poorly thought out thought of mine. Oh well. But the connection between Egg Catcher and the Chansey game is suspicious.
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Posted: 2/21/2009 1:19 AM
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MUGG
Editor, Expert player (2328)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3928
Location: Germany
Gameboy TASer of 2015 NES TAS of 2013 Gameboy TASer of 2011 Gameboy TASer of 2010
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Posted: 4/12/2010 3:01 PM
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applepieman
Former player
Joined: 10/6/2007
Posts: 86
Recently stumbled upon this little gem on the Game Boy while working on something and was curious on if a TAS run was being made or not. Nice to see a run is already completed.