Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
Way to help out the community Saturn. Four different SM runs have been published since November 26, 2006, and all you've done is sat on this information to act superior. Very classy.
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
mmbossman wrote:
Way to help out the community Saturn. Four different SM runs have been published since November 26, 2006, and all you've done is sat on this information to act superior. Very classy.
I agree with all the above, except I have far more hostility and contempt.
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
you have no time to tas but time to make a video for every little trick convert it to youtube format and make a title screen description etc etc..
how come you allways post a video / smv AFTER someone found it
saturn isnt that somehow lame? i mean what do you feel when you see a trick posted here? i really wanna know
I mentioned it many times before, I just want to make a run that shows new stuff for the watcher to increase the surprise. Thats why I avoid spoiling tricks before finishing it. Unfortunately my freetime is very limited and my motivation to work on the run not as high as before. I know this way is not the best one, but you must understand that it would be pointless for me to work on the run further if there would be no new stuff to show off. I try to avoid giving up on my run (to show you all something new in the end), so I just have no other choice as you see.
How I feel about seeing a trick spoiled here? On one side happy that we have such smart guys like Taco here, on the other side of course a bit sad that things don't work out like I planned them to do (to show the trick the first time in the finished run).
Why I make videos of tricks? To at least prove everybody that I used them in my previous runs.
I hope you can understand my situation at least a bit.
Saturn: Well, you have to understand that it pisses off people to know that you've been sitting on this information all the time while not producing anything. When you suddenly trump yourself forth when others discover the trick, stealing their thunder, it only creates aggravation.
So you see, your behavior creates only negative feelings with no benefits. I understand your philosophy of not spoiling the surprises, but you are taking too long time for those surprises to be worth anything.
Additionally, withholding that information means that resources are being wasted as many people do concurrently the same work. It is impolite towards your fellows to impose waste of work.
Also, who are you planning to surprise? I don't read this thread. When something gets submitted at this site, it is a surprise to me. Those who will want to be surprised can be surprised at their own discretion.
Considering adopting a more open and free philosophy of sharing information.
Also consider this your second warning.
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
No, Saturn, I do not understand your situation. You hinder current progress of others for the possibility of attainig "fame" (within this very small community) for yourself. Instead, because of your actions, you have tainted the communities perception of you. Instead of seeing you as a great SM TASer with undeniable skills, you are now seen as someone who will not help out unless you can somehow crow about how great you are. Whether you realize this or not is unclear to me, but if it is, and you continue to post just to show how great you are, I can imagine a time when nobody will even read anything your right anymore. Because it will be exactly the same crap as the 100 posts before it. Also, somewhat of a simulpost with Bisqwit.
Saturn, your position is clearly understandable.
It's just that people still don't like it because it's selfish. In case you don't know what is selfish about it, explanation:
1) your primary goal is to surprise people with stuff you found;
2) this goal is attained by showing stuff you found to people.
The only sensible opportunities to do it are: a) immediately, as most people here do, or b) after completing a run, which you've been failing to do for years, just as I have.
The only reason you don't want to show this new stuff immediately is to get credit for it after the run is complete, and show that you were "that awesome already back then". Even if you don't have ill intentions, this behavior passes off as arrogant and immature, which it probably is.
Considering that the surprise value vanishes really quick as people continue finding your tricks, you need either to show them now to let the community as a whole benefit, or finish up your run faster. And the latter doesn't seem to be an option with your busy schedule. I really hope you understand that you're digging a hole under yourself by hoarding the tricks, because instead of the credit you believe you deserve for finding them, all you get is annoyance at withholding them for so long. See?
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
I wouldn't care otherwise, but I believe I should make an effort to save him from an impending ban. It's not too late, even though people already are ill-disposed towards him.
My advice would be either disclosing the tricks not yet found by other players, or shutting up about them until you, Saturn, finish a full run with them. That is the only sensible solution for you now.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Hey guys, long time lurker here.
Over at zfgc we're having a little speedrun contest with super metroid, and TASes are accepted :P
I've never done a TAS before, but I've played SM a million times, and I've watched plenty of TASes.
Last night I did about 15 mins of the game:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/193636.htmlhttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2168268608200986924&hl=en
It's insanely unoptimized compared to you guys, but try not to cry :P
Just thought you guys might get a kick out of watching a bunch of amateurs, and who knows, we might do something useful :P
i see thanks for answering saturn its sad you arent motivated very much for your tases but who is it :P?
btw: you saw evil eyes in bisq's avatar? UHHH :( frightening
Saturn didn't you already quit the RBO and any% projects? That leaves you only with SM:R TAS that I doubt you'll finish, you always seem to make excellent fast progress in the beginning of all your runs, but halfway or earlier you just stop. I think you'd get a lot more attention if you had shared all your tricks before someone else did.
Sorry for the short and useless post just thought to bring my 2 cents into the conversation.
<Deign> .dice 1d1999191023443691
<BisqBot> Deign rolls a blackhole and destroys the planet.
Has anyone seen this? It shows that Samus was still active and able to move after being zapped by mother brain's hyper beam. Yes, perhaps this abuses a program error, but I bet it seems difficult to achieve. =/
that doesn't help. To survive with the pause glitch, you don't need to move, you need to pause. You can pause after being zapped, but you can't pause WHILE being zapped, which leads to a short scene of samus stripping, then dropping dead.
edit: this post was made under the assumption that you wanted to use that trick to do the pause glitch. Anyway, the trick is useless in a speedrun.
Yes. It's been known for a long while thanks to Kej, but it requires that you enter a pause screen once to de-equip the suits, and 6 e-tanks to survive the attack, making it useless in any form of a speedrun.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
I think this is somewhat known, I have managed to do it unknowingly on console a couple of times but only just realized how to do it.
The frontal boost. I love it, it looks funny.
Saturn: Well, you have to understand that it pisses off people to know that you've been sitting on this information all the time while not producing anything. When you suddenly trump yourself forth when others discover the trick, stealing their thunder, it only creates aggravation.
Bisqwit, please understand that I don't "steal" anybody's thunder. Taco got full credit in my vid to discover that trick as well, with a extra mentioning that he did it independently of me. Everything is as fair as it can be here.
It's really unfortunate that things turned out like that recently, and that a few people might be pissed here. You can be sure that it certainly wasn't my intention to happen.
As to the question of who I plan to surprise, everybody who knows Super Metroid well enough.
Thinking about everything you guys said, and the in my opinion not justified threats towards me, I decided to follow one of your suggestions and avoid commenting on new tricks in the future here (at least as long as I don't contribute a new trick myself), to not annoy you anymore. I will just quietly work on my run further as much as the time allows, and hopefully present you a finished one in the not too far future (if things go well maybe even this year already), without mentioning too many details of it until it's done, like the majority of TASer do here as well. Is this ok with you Bisqwit?
mmbossman:
I'm not hindering anything. Every person is free to TAS SM anytime, and nobody should be dependent on somebody else's run.
evilchen wrote:
i see thanks for answering saturn its sad you arent motivated very much for your tases but who is it :P?
Yeah, I know. Sometimes it's hard to be motivated, especially on a difficult game like this one. There is nothing we can do about it.
Tonski wrote:
Saturn didn't you already quit the RBO and any% projects? That leaves you only with SM:R TAS that I doubt you'll finish, you always seem to make excellent fast progress in the beginning of all your runs, but halfway or earlier you just stop.
No, I just cancelled the old ingame-oriented any%, but I will likely do a realtime one as the next run. And regarding my old RBO, even though it's obsoleted in the beginning by now, I still play with the thought to finish it just for fun, to see what time is possible to get with the route I used there. And no, I won't quit SMR as well. It's still top priority (along with the SM-any%) as of now.
Thinking about everything you guys said, and the in my opinion not justified threats towards me, I decided to follow one of your suggestions and avoid commenting on new tricks in the future here (at least as long as I don't contribute a new trick myself), to not annoy you anymore. I will just quietly work on my run further as much as the time allows
Joined: 5/2/2006
Posts: 1020
Location: Boulder, CO
afic the only that that needs to change is that the first person to discover a trick, and submit it, or post it here deserves the credit. There is no real reason to be mad at saturn.
Just give taco the credit he deserves for the trick he discovered, and ignore whatever claims anyone else makes about when they knew about it.
What frustrates me about running this game is that others are already too good at it. The only interesting things I have come up with so far that is not already known/published are exactly 2 places where you can go a slightly different path (within a given room) at no frame loss. And these seem like they were known, as IMO the published versions look better. I dont think I want to continue work on this game.
I don't know why there has to be so much competition as to who contributes what. The way I see it, TASing is more or less based on teamwork; everyone contributes as much as possible in terms of ideas to a thread and whatnot to ensure that the final run produced is as good as human knowledge can allow. It really doesn't matter who discovered it as long as it is implemented in the run. For this reason I also think it's unethical to hold back tricks. Had the trick been revealed earlier, perhaps people could find an unexpected application of the trick or another trick based on said trick's method of execution (sorry if that was confusing).
Couldn't you use that MB zap trick do save a little time in a 100% run by doing some damage before getting hyper beam?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Couldn't you use that MB zap trick do save a little time in a 100% run by doing some damage before getting hyper beam?
You can. In fact, it's the way to go in a 100% or a RBO run, because it's faster than using the Murder Beam, in both, real- and even ingame time. A obvious trick to use in any run if you have the required conditions for it, and I'm a bit surprised nobody ever got the idea for it before.
