I don't know how it could work with frame advance though as that most mic features are if the mic is used or not there might be a way to use a button to stimulate mic interaction.
I doubt that the microphone is only read once per frame... A 30 (or even 60) hertz sample rate would produce such a horrible sound quality that I don't think any human could determine the words produced, and I doubt a computer would easily do so either. That sample rate would lose sound waves on basically all human ranged frequencies since a 60 Hz sound wave is down in the bass range of sound while the average voice ranges mostly in the kHz range. A low quality voice recording has an 8 kHz sample rate and the average music has a 44.1 kHz sample rate.
It sounds like the easiest way to do microphone commands while still using frame advance and other TAS tools is to pre-record what you want to say and open it in the emulator, which would feed the audio recording to the game through whatever API the DS uses for listening to the microphone as if it was actually being said in real time. Of course, such a sound file would need to be saved in the movie files... Hopefully whoever makes the rerecording emulator will only save the microphone data when the microphone is actually activated or a sound is being played back in the way that I just mentioned.
<ccfreak2k> There is no 'ctrl' button on DeHackEd's computer. DeHackEd is always in control.
Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 97
Location: Everywhere including nowhere
blahmoomoo wrote:
I doubt that the microphone is only read once per frame... A 30 (or even 60) hertz sample rate would produce such a horrible sound quality that I don't think any human could determine the words produced, and I doubt a computer would easily do so either. That sample rate would lose sound waves on basically all human ranged frequencies since a 60 Hz sound wave is down in the bass range of sound while the average voice ranges mostly in the kHz range. A low quality voice recording has an 8 kHz sample rate and the average music has a 44.1 kHz sample rate.
It sounds like the easiest way to do microphone commands while still using frame advance and other TAS tools is to pre-record what you want to say and open it in the emulator, which would feed the audio recording to the game through whatever API the DS uses for listening to the microphone as if it was actually being said in real time. Of course, such a sound file would need to be saved in the movie files... Hopefully whoever makes the rerecording emulator will only save the microphone data when the microphone is actually activated or a sound is being played back in the way that I just mentioned.
Or even better: Hold ctrl (or some other button), record, release ctrl, and the emulator inserts all of that microphone input as far as ahead as it lasts. (And it would get inserted into the movie file, FLAC format would probably be best.)
I doubt that the microphone is only read once per frame... A 30 (or even 60) hertz sample rate would produce such a horrible sound quality that I don't think any human could determine the words produced, and I doubt a computer would easily do so either. That sample rate would lose sound waves on basically all human ranged frequencies since a 60 Hz sound wave is down in the bass range of sound while the average voice ranges mostly in the kHz range. A low quality voice recording has an 8 kHz sample rate and the average music has a 44.1 kHz sample rate.
It sounds like the easiest way to do microphone commands while still using frame advance and other TAS tools is to pre-record what you want to say and open it in the emulator, which would feed the audio recording to the game through whatever API the DS uses for listening to the microphone as if it was actually being said in real time. Of course, such a sound file would need to be saved in the movie files... Hopefully whoever makes the rerecording emulator will only save the microphone data when the microphone is actually activated or a sound is being played back in the way that I just mentioned.
Or even better: Hold ctrl (or some other button), record, release ctrl, and the emulator inserts all of that microphone input as far as ahead as it lasts. (And it would get inserted into the movie file, FLAC format would probably be best.)
Both would be even better... Unless you can recall the sound you recorded when doing a rerecord, you will have to speak over and over again. Besides, you might want to edit the audio command a bit to make it as short as possible... Such as, speed it up bit by bit until the game can no longer understand it, then use the fastest understandable speed.
<ccfreak2k> There is no 'ctrl' button on DeHackEd's computer. DeHackEd is always in control.
Most of the mic usage that I've seen in NDS games is just blowing into the microphone anyway.
On a somewhat related note, any re-recording NDS emu should also take the NDS' hinge feature into account (you know, opening/closing the console), since some games may use it as an integral part of gameplay. Zelda Phantom Hourglass does this in one occasion, and it isn't an optional event.
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
I know that a few people are "kicking the tires" of desmume, to see if it would be an appropriate emulator to add TAS features too, but it's quite a fixer-upper, so don't get your hopes up quite yet. There is interest though, which is always a good place to start.
As it turns out, a new version (0.9) of DeSmuME was released today. I was considerably surprised by how drastically different it is to 0.8.
In terms of tas usability progress, the emulator is getting quite close; it already has a frame counter, frame advance, and (albeit needing work, as there is no sound recorded) avi recording.
It needs work on the sound front, as that can be highly off in some games (for example sonic rush), the graphical front a little also as some games still suffer graphical issues, and the configurability front, as it's lacking massively in that department (multicore support certainly wouldn't hurt, although I wouldn't say it needs it as it runs better than no$gba apart from sound).
But yes, the emulator is at the very least one step closer to being usable for the purposes of NDS TAS.
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
I tested what it plays like on the 3D graphics games (Super Mario 64 DS & New Super Mario Bros) and it's still pretty laggy ranging from 8 to 40 fps. But it's a proper 3d Handheld that lacks texture blending (pixcelated at closeup)
I tested out the AVI recording and playback from a XVID Mpeg 4 codec is really smooth without any sound of course.
Main things remaining to add:
- Input Display
- Sound included for Avi recording
- An NDS game movie file. (Re-recording)
- Less lag on a game that uses a 3D graphic engine.
I understand how long & complex these things can actually happen.
But for now it's cool at least that there are updates to these DS emus :)
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
I'm impressed with how far 0.9 has come. Just had a play now, I see that NSMB works well with only a few graphical and sound glitches. Seems to run ALMOST full speed but theres no indication to why it's not running 100% for me...
Sonic Rush is pretty good too graphically, but the sound leaves alot to be desired. Slowdowns also occur in some places, but it's hard to tell if that's due to cpu reaching 100% or an emulator issue.
The only game I'll ever TAS still does not work. The intro movie flickers stuff on both screens and the game does not get past the intro dialog. Most disappointing.
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
I'm impressed with how far 0.9 has come. Just had a play now, I see that NSMB works well with only a few graphical and sound glitches. Seems to run ALMOST full speed but theres no indication to why it's not running 100% for me...
At first, I wondered why it didn't show any 3D objects.
Then I tried setting the renderer from "None" to "OpenGL" and it wouldn't stay there.
Then I figured out that the problem was that my drivers were outdated (I had relied on Windows Update for my shitty integrated graphics drivers), so I downloaded new ones from Intel and now I can say that it looks like by version 1.0 DeSmuME should not only beat the stagnant NO$GBA (first anniversary of latest release coming right up...) but should also be easy to add TAS-ability to.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Mission 1
Mission 2
Mission 3
Yeah, I'm getting excited about this development.
I think even more important than adding the juicy TAS features is making sure all games work; the compatibility list is really quite small. And yes, a good computer is needed to run a good speed; my 3 year old computer runs at average 15 FPS. :-/
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjavík, Ísland
I think even more important than adding the juicy TAS features is making sure all games work
What's the point of having a large compatibility list if there aren't any TAS-making tools?
Also, you know what's awesome? Bangai-O Spirits seems to works really well in DeSmuME. That is to say, if one has a ninja supercomputer. YEAH BOY.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Blublu wrote:
I think even more important than adding the juicy TAS features is making sure all games work
What's the point of having a large compatibility list if there aren't any TAS-making tools?
Also, you know what's awesome? Bangai-O Spirits seems to works really well in DeSmuME. That is to say, if one has a ninja supercomputer. YEAH BOY.
If no games can run in desmume, even if it has TAS features, what's the point? That's what I'm getting at. I think, from a developer standpoint, run all games comes before TAS tools.
Bangai-O Spirits seems to run fine, and even has a replay feature (which DOES enable you to TAS the stages, replay, and record an AVI) however, I think I spotted visual glitches with the ammunition. It may be me, but I don't think all the shots are supposed to be white/grey balls.
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjavík, Ísland
Comicalflop wrote:
If no games can run in desmume, even if it has TAS features, what's the point? That's what I'm getting at. I think, from a developer standpoint, run all games comes before TAS tools.
Yes, you are of course right. I was talking only from a TASing standpoint. :)
Bangai-O Spirits seems to run fine, and even has a replay feature (which DOES enable you to TAS the stages, replay, and record an AVI) however, I think I spotted visual glitches with the ammunition. It may be me, but I don't think all the shots are supposed to be white/grey balls.
Hmm. Now that I actually check, there are significant graphical glitches concerning the backgrounds. For example the level minimaps look wrong. It's supposed to show the level background as a solid color instead of transparent. (the blue rolling graphic is supposed to signify stuff that is not part of the level at all). Sometimes, objects appear grey until they move. The "bounce" bullets really are grey balls, however, so that's not a glitch. Also, the backgrounds in the levels themselves are distorted and weird. (the level I initially tested had a black space background and looked okay to me). This can be somewhat alleviated by turning the backgrounds off in the options menu, but that's not really an acceptable fix. Oh well. Still, this is very promising!
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
A couple of months ago I said that the 3D games were quite slow. But I recently got my main PC back (yes I will find some time and finish off the Wario Land Perfect ending TAS test too).
This one does play the DS games a bit faster around 40+ fps at the most but when I go to the menu and select OpenGl as the plugin, it won't work.
I'm not really familiar to 3D engine TASing yet (I haven't even TASed N64 games yet so I'm an amateur) but is there anything online that can get the OpenGl to work by download, or do I have to buy a new Graphics card that should support Open GL.
http://files.filefront.com/Mario+Wings+to+the+Sky+DS/;12919650;/fileinfo.html
This is a video file of an AVI recording test from the old pc.
Basically my new one doesn't show the 3D models (Mario & others) when playing the game,
Mission 2
Mission 3
Yeah, I'm getting excited about this development.
I think even more important than adding the juicy TAS features is making sure all games work; the compatibility list is really quite small. And yes, a good computer is needed to run a good speed; my 3 year old computer runs at average 15 FPS. :-/
