I've always wanted to see a tas of a sierra game... then I realized that KQV was released for the NES!
OK, so it's not the greatest game in the world to tas. Here's a walkthrough done at 100% speed, with big help from a faq since I never played this one--though the faq was frustratingly lacking in some areas :(
Walthrough movie
Improvements would come from potential sequence breaking and much better control of menus and movement (particularly taking advantage of diagonals).
Now I can dream of a Space Quest movie...
Seeing as DOSBox Rerecording exists, it would be better to do the PC version. But then again, there would really be no point, since there are no sequence breaks, and you'd just skip all dialog.
No sequence breaks... that we know of ;)
OK probably not. But dosbox is still "pending" (and kind of janky... not nearly as advanced as fceu yet obviously)
Plus can you control the later sierra games w/o a mouse? I guess you could use the keyboard to control the cursor but I don't recall being able to.
Maybe i'll try KQI on sms ;)
I apologize if there's already a topic on this wonderful game.
For those of you not in the know, this is a graphic adventure: a lot like Deja Vu except you actually control the visible protagonist via selecting commands and/or items and using them on the environment; that and the fact the hero's a king in search of his missing family instead of a hardened detective seeking to clear his name.
Like the previous game in the series, there are points out of a certain number to be collected by doing things. There's no prize for getting the maximum number of points but it could do for another video if the fastest run doesn't have nearly as many points...kinda like with the big difference between the fastest Super Mario 64 run and the 120 stars Super Mario 64 run.
Too bad there's no DOS emulator that has rerecording because, not only is the DOS version the original, it also is of significantly better quality (and has voice acting too!)...
Why, oh, why do I even <i>try</i> to understand my own species?
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 632
Location: Seattle, WA
The run would be nothing more than a walkthrough, slightly sped up. I dunno. It worked for Shadowgate and Deja Vu pretty well, for example, but here we'd have to watch Graham walking across the screen. Every screen. I don't anticipate a TAS of this to be super-fun to watch, but who knows?
And I haven't been keeping up on it the last few months but yes there's a rerecording Dosbox. If it can do mouse input, it would be better to make and watch than the inferior NES version.
No worries ;)
I do think the search engine is a little whack, especially when searching for more than one word... it took me a while to find the old thread and I had the distinct advantage of *knowing* it existed.
Anyways, I will TAS this game when, um, well... when I run out of better games. So probably never at this rate :( ... but maybe KQI if it's any shorter!
By the way, KQV for DOS does allow keyboard control of the "mouse" in the game. It is the numpad with the num lock turned off (the 5 key is what scrolls through the different commands, IIRC). Of course, it probably would be way inferior to the speed of a mouse... With the mouse, you could easily have it simply "jump" to where you want to click, but that can't happen with the keyboard.
If a TAS is made for KQV for DOS, would the diskette or CD version be used?
<rant topic="DosBox">
In my opinion, adding and improving TAS tools for DosBox will make this site prepared for future emulators because they will probably have very similar problems along with other problems. It is better to figure out the current problems before even more complex emulators come along when people want to see TAS's of last generation's game systems five to ten years from now (if not sooner).
I know that the SMS rerecording emulator came out recently, but that is still an 8-bit gaming system, which appears to be similar to the NES (in emulator implementation, not quality). I'm not saying that old games should stop being TASed, but soon enough people will want more modern games when modern emulation improves.
DOS is much more varied than any other system supported by this site since the machine could be made of different hardware. Although the next few emulators to get rerecording functionality may not be so variant, there are still a few issues present in DOS that also exist in the next emulators. Besides the GameBoy DS and a few lesser known gaming systems, I do not see any rerecording emulators coming up that use cartridges/ROMs. All of them use a CD drive (or a similar media). DOS can use a CD drive for some of its games. So there are a few challenges in DOS that are similar to upcoming challenges.
This rant may be slightly misplaced, but here is my opinion anyway.
</rant>
EDIT: If this game is ever made into a TAS on the DosBox (when somebody makes the rerecording version more reliable), a more definite limit on the maximum number of cycles a game can be run with needs to be created because Graham walks faster while you control him when you have more cycles, although everything else moves at the same speed (assuming that you don't make the number of cycles very low).
<ccfreak2k> There is no 'ctrl' button on DeHackEd's computer. DeHackEd is always in control.
I have started a TAS for KQV (my first TAS). I just saved at the first frame where the screen is completely black after exiting the bakery (after buying the pie), and I'm exactly 1500 frames (25 seconds) ahead of your walkthrough video. ;)
Anyway, is it worth it to continue? Will this video be rejected due to low entertainment value, even if it's technically close to perfect? The movement of the cursor looks impressive, but other than that, I fear it's gonna be a tad boring to watch. >_>
I think it'll be a matter of length. We do have several storybook games on the site that because they're short, work. Granted KQV has a lot of boring walking, so it's a bit different to compare that to, say, Uninvited.
I was thinking of posting my WIP after the desert part, there's really not much to watch right now.
Besides, I have to start over because I screwed up on the first text box (and probably a few more after that, I haven't bothered to check). When trying to close the text box on the first possible frame, I just tried a frame, and if that didn't work, I waited maybe 5 or 10 frames and tried again until I found one that worked. When I found a frame that worked, I just tried the frame before that, and if that didn't work, I assumed that all frames before that one wouldn't work either. Turns out every 4th (or so) frame works, so if you can close a text box at frame 2578, you can also close it at frame 2582, but not 2579, 2580 or 2581. Probably common knowledge for you guys, but I sure as hell didn't know. x_x
Edit: Wow, good thing I decided to start over. When I started my first attempt, I just tried randomly pressing all the buttons during the company logos at the beginning, but nothing happened, so I thought you just had to wait them out. This time, knowing that not all frames work, I tried a bit more carefully, and was able to skip the Konami and Sierra logos by hitting the B-button at the right frames. I still couldn't skip the copyright notice, though, so I hope that's not possible. >_<
Anyway, saved at the first "black screen-frame" after the first town part, and I'm a little over 21 (!) seconds ahead of my first attempt.
Edit 2: I'm back at the above-mentioned "bakery-frame" where my first attempt ended. I'm now no less than 1306 frames ahead of my old time. Also, on my first attempt, I had 554 re-recordings at this point. This time, I have 880; I was more careful to position myself more correctly when picking up the fish and the silver coin in town and when talking to the baker.
Here's my WIP so far. Just reached the desert.
[Edited out. Scroll down a few posts.]
Note: The reason I leave town and reenter right away, is because the silver coin on the ground doesn't appear until the second time you enter town.
Hint to BZero: DeHackEd has a place called Microstorage where you can put WIPs up so people don't have to dodge through ads or "one time only" download limits: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php
EDIT: I will watch your run later when it is done. I like the King's Quest series, but I don't want to bother watching it until you are done because it can get too repetitive (no offense to you or Sierra).
<ccfreak2k> There is no 'ctrl' button on DeHackEd's computer. DeHackEd is always in control.
Sorry for double posting again, but I have to post this new link: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/885877548/King%27s%20Quest%20V%20TAS%20WIP%20BZero.fcm
I realized that I didn't have to pick up the silver coin now, as I'm going back to town later on and I'm also passing by the bakery (where I use the silver coin) after the second trip to town. This will save me some time, since I don't have to leave and reenter town like in the last attempt. It will also look better.
Anyway, I started all over again, but I used the old video as a frame-by-frame guide, so it didn't take that long to do. Whereas I had used 1945 re-recordings at this point in the first WIP I uploaded, I have now only used 228. For all three attempts together, I've used 2727 re-recordings, though.
Sorry for double posting again, but I have to post this new link: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/885877548/King%27s%20Quest%20V%20TAS%20WIP%20BZero.fcm
I realized that I didn't have to pick up the silver coin now, as I'm going back to town later on and I'm also passing by the bakery (where I use the silver coin) after the second trip to town. This will save me some time, since I don't have to leave and reenter town like in the last attempt. It will also look better.
Anyway, I started all over again, but I used the old video as a frame-by-frame guide, so it didn't take that long to do. Whereas I had used 1945 re-recordings at this point in the first WIP I uploaded, I have now only used 228. For all three attempts together, I've used 2727 re-recordings, though.
Would it be troublesome to make a no-emulator-required WIP?
Why, oh, why do I even <i>try</i> to understand my own species?
This looks pretty good so far, actually. It seemed faster than I'd remembered it ;) I didn't look very closely, but during the part with the bear, did you have to walk that far down? I'm sure you tested it though...
Keep up the good work, I will look forward to a more substantial WIP.
I didn't look very closely, but during the part with the bear, did you have to walk that far down?
If I had tried to throw the fish from anywhere else, Graham would have walked over to that spot automatically, and seeing as his automatic walking speed is roughly twice as slow as his normal walking speed (when I control him), walking there myself is faster. Also, if I had stood farther from the bear, I would also have had to move to cursor farther as the cursor always shows up where Graham is standing (the cursor's speed is twice as fast as Graham, and four times as fast as his automatic walking speed BTW).
Because of the different walking speeds, I always have to place myself in the exact spot Graham would automatically place himself. This is the most time-consuming part about making this TAS.
Harmonik: http://dl3u.savefile.com/017e5d200df3e6f62e3141f161105bc2/King_s_Quest_V_TAS_WIP_BZero.avi
Edit: Um, one question. In the Q*bert topic in this forum, they said recordings have to start from soft reset, but the rules say they must start from power-on. Apparently, the Q*bert video got rejected because it was recorded from power-on. So... what's the deal here?
Heh, I remember that bear thing now ;) Don't know if you're using memory watch stuff, but that would probably make positioning Graham much simpler for you.
Maybe someone here knows more details, but I think that FCEU reports movie starting points strangely. Power-on = hard reset, ie using the power switch and not the reset switch on a real nes. If we look at the info on microstorage, it says your movie starts from "Hard reset (power-on)", whereas the q*bert movie is "Reset (Type Unknown)" You should be fine.
The "easiest" way to do memory watch is with FCEU 0.98.16
You go into "Cheat Search" to find addresses, and then transfer them to "Memory Watch" to see their values.
Here's a pretty good explanation but PM me if you'd like more help and I would be happy to :)
I can't even begin to follow that explanation, because my Memory Watch window has none of the buttons mentioned or anything. It tells me to press start, but I only see "Clear", "Save", "Load" and "Close" buttons..? I am completely lost.
...I think I'll just continue playing the way I have been.
