This is an improvement to my previous atempt at fastest ingame time, it is by the games clock 19.37 seconds or 1162 frames faster so the clock is finally down to 00:23 :)
Much of the improvement comes from better ammo/energy management (I think 5-6 seconds) and more Continuous wall jumps which can be implemented at many more places than I originally thought, several seconds came from that as well. The rest is just better room strategies and better general optimization.
Thanks to various persons (in no particular order):
Hero of the day, Tonski, Saturn, Kriole, Taco, moozooh, JXQ, evilchen, Terimakashi, Michael Flatly, Frenom, gocha And the creators of Snes9x and it's improvements whom I don't know by name. You should know why you are mentioned and if you want to have me write something specifically say so.
Bisqwit: I realize this is another pandora's box, but producing entertaining movies is one of the major goals of this site, and this movie seems to have been deemed entertaining by the audience. As this category of movie has popped in from time to time, I will therefore proceed to accept this movie for publication alongside the aims-for-realtime movie. Bisqwit: Processing.
Simply amazing run!
It's extremely well optimized, entertaining during the waiting scenes, very creative and fast during boss fights, and what especially shines in it is the excellent ammo/health management over the entire run.
The only small mistakes I could see so far:
Botwoon exit is 2 frames slower than what I did in the any% (wonder why you didn't use my strategy from the vid there).
In the one-way exit of LN, it's a bit faster to not use the morphball jump on the last platform before the crumble blocks, but do it like I did in the RBO demo. I too was suprised that one jump is slower than 2 smaller there, but my tests confirmed that.
Use a damage boost from the flamer instead of the unmorph tech when passing the PB-shortcut in the green bubble room after LN.
Other than this minor things, there is nothing to complain about in this run at all. Very good job Cpadolf, you truly proved to be a top SM-TASer with this. :-)
As for the future of this run, it obviously shouldn't obsolete a realtime-oriented run hero will finish in a few days, but it achives a 0:23 the first time a SM run ever did, and on top of that shows more variety due to more new items that increase Samus abilities, which basicly makes this run as entertaining as a 100% one, but with a much faster completion time. Also, it doesn't use any pause screens at all, making it a clean one to watch, without any flow interruptions. I will in any case encode this run to a vid and post it online if nobody does it here, but I really hope this could be accepted as a concept demo. This run would definitely deserve to be published at least there, as it represents the highest SM-TAS level ever seen so far, just with a different goal from the standard here (ingame time over realtime), which however is even more appreciated for most other Super Metroid fans. I vote YES in any case.
Botwoon exit is 2 frames slower than what I did in the any% (wonder why you didn't use my strategy from the vid there).
While I knew I was slower than you here (by comparing to JXQ's videos as you had) I was not able to get the strategy in your video to be faster. No matter how I did the jump I ended up at the floor on the other room at least 1 frame slower, I also did not have to skip any armpumps either. I think you where faster here only because the morphball jump in the begining.
Saturn wrote:
Use a damage boost from the flamer instead of the unmorph tech when passing the PB-shortcut in the green bubble room after LN.
Nope, I tested this in my last any% run and I tested it again here, no matter how I took the damageboost I ended up on the floor slower.
I think you where faster here only because the morphball jump in the begining.
Right, thats the key move to get the needed position before the jump through the exit-door.
Cpadolf wrote:
Saturn wrote:
Use a damage boost from the flamer instead of the unmorph tech when passing the PB-shortcut in the green bubble room after LN.
Nope, I tested this in my last any% run and I tested it again here, no matter how I took the damageboost I ended up on the floor slower.
Well, I never tested that myself, but I think one of the SM-TASer mentioned it to be faster in your previous run, so I just assumed it was true at first.
Well, I never tested that myself, but I think one of the SM-TASer mentioned it to be faster in your previous run, so I just assumed it was true at first.
Hero mentioned it as a possible improvement, also JXQ took the damageboost I think. Therefore I checked it but it was not faster.
Both morphing/unmorphing and taking the damageboost kill your momentum, with morph/unmorph though you can take another corner boost and morphing I think puts samus further down than just falling (as there are places where a morph with a unmorph at the end can actually be faster than to just fall down.)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
Yes for being entertaining, no for obsoleting the current movie (per reasons stated on your previous movie).
But it sure was a fun watch:) I hope you keep up with more of these runs (especially if it's a low % run to get rid of that old old publication).
I hope you keep up with more of these runs (especially if it's a low % run to get rid of that old old publication).
I could have done a low% but moozooh is going to, might take a while though since he is also working on another Super Metroid run atm that has higher priority.
However as said before I am about to start a 100% run which I will work on together with another TASer (not mentioning any names here, if he wishes to tell people he will, I don't have to say it for him)
While I still don't like the idea of beating the in-game timer at the cost of real-time, maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing to have both categories published. I'm voting yes, with two meanings:
1) Yes, if "aims for fastest in-game timer" is considered a valid alternative category, this movie should definitely be published.
2) Yes, perhaps both "aims for fastest in-game timer" and "aims for fastest time" should both be published as separate categories.
Well there is concept demos, (personally I don't have anything against my run going up there) otherwise I don't see this getting published alongside the realtime run, the fourth category should go to the glitched out NBMB run which finishes the game in the fastest time possible and skips all bosses.
I don't really understand the need for a fourth catagory because technically
1. This does not aim for fastest ingame time
2. The current submitted and published any% does not aim for fastest real time
3. The current low% does not aim for low%
As I understand the NBMB (or as I would call it glitched any%) has a major glitch which skips nearly all the game and in doing so avoids encounters with all bosses. It would would be understandable to keep the current any% and rename it any% non-glitched as it would show more of the game, but eliminate the major glitch. I think the best solloution would be when the NBMB run comes along, would be to obselete the low%, since the current ratings seem to suggest that its significantly less entertaining to watch compared to the current any% and 100%. The main reason for this is that the boss battles are significantly longer.
1. This does not aim for fastest ingame time
2. The current submitted and published any% does not aim for fastest real time
3. The current low% does not aim for low%
They all do, but with the exception of one glitch that sucks much fun out of the runs, other games such as The Adventure of Link has both a non glitched and a glitched run and I see no reason not to have it the same way for Super Metroid.
AKA wrote:
I think the best solloution would be when the NBMB run comes along, would be to obselete the low%
I think this is a bad decision, the NBMB will not aim for lowest% actually, yes it will be lower than the 14% the current one has but to reach the absolute low% you would have to use a glitch which induces semi-immortality at the cost of minutes and minutes of realtime (the glitch is that if pausing at the first frame possible again and again the trigger for samus death will not have time to start) and this will never be used because it sucks. The 14% low is the limit without significant gamebreakers and that I think is enough to give it it's own category.
AKA wrote:
since the current ratings seem to suggest that its significantly less entertaining to watch compared to the current any% and 100%.
I'd say it is because it is grossly outdated, the mistakes and inoptimizations in the run are no less visible than those in a run by a speedrunner.
AKA, your attention span lasts around 3-4 month, because you appear with this argument over and over with me explaining it to you every single time.
1. Published low%'s rating is for the most part caused by the fact that it's three years old and thus lacks most entertaining tricks that would make it look great.
2. 14% is the low% without gamebreaking glitches as much as the current any% is any% without game-breaking glitches. Because it's more entertaining that way and the whole community thinks so. Novelty value is cool, but after that you're stuck with simply little amount of interesting content. With games as execution-intensive as Super Metroid, a small (in terms of percent) variation in item set causes drastic changes in gameplay in strategy. And ingame-oriented low% shows it the best, because it will be a fast and unique run, and not a copy of hero's any% with longer fights.
That's why NBMB will be having its own category, or will be having none.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
This run was just CRAZY GOOD :) I loved every frame of it! The style was very entertaining. Getting stuck in the door while waitings for the statues was priceless. Jumping over the gap to get Wave Beam and skipping Torizo were things i wanted to see for a while.
Now, i know Hero just published his run and that it is faster so ill go take a look before voting. For now ill put a '' Fo shizzle ma nizzle'' on it :)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Moi. I'm not very entertained by Super Metroid at all, and all "uber 1337 $Ubp1x31 0p+1m@z@+10n$" look pretty much the same to me (which is saying something, considering I can spot pixel mistakes with ease in other games. When watching in real time.) Differences in route to save in-game time will not look any different to me at all, since I've never played the game and thus will not know a route change when I see it. Hell, the only thing that stood out to me as being visibly new was the Torizo skip. Add in that in-game time saving tricks also look identical to real time strategies, and the run really did nothing for me at all. Neither did the first version.
Moi. I'm not very entertained by Super Metroid at all, and all "uber 1337 $Ubp1x31 0p+1m@z@+10n$" look pretty much the same to me (which is saying something, considering I can spot pixel mistakes with ease in other games. When watching in real time.) Differences in route to save in-game time will not look any different to me at all, since I've never played the game and thus will not know a route change when I see it. Hell, the only thing that stood out to me as being visibly new was the Torizo skip. Add in that in-game time saving tricks also look identical to real time strategies, and the run really did nothing for me at all. Neither did the first version.
I found this to be more entertaining than hero's run.
It is, objectively viewed, more entertaining than the realtime oriented run, because it not only looks faster and more diversified in rooms where you benefit from the HJ-Boots or Space Jump, but cuts the last 2 boss figths immensely, and for that shows more action in the additional rooms you have to pass to get the additional items like Plasma. The one and only drawback of this run is the slightly slower realtime completion. Every other goal is achieved as best as it can be with this route.
Moi. I'm not very entertained by Super Metroid at all, and all "uber 1337 $Ubp1x31 0p+1m@z@+10n$" look pretty much the same to me (which is saying something, considering I can spot pixel mistakes with ease in other games. When watching in real time.) Differences in route to save in-game time will not look any different to me at all, since I've never played the game and thus will not know a route change when I see it. Hell, the only thing that stood out to me as being visibly new was the Torizo skip. Add in that in-game time saving tricks also look identical to real time strategies, and the run really did nothing for me at all. Neither did the first version.
So in your opinion this should not be published?
We've already had an extensive discussion as to why this shouldn't obselete a real time run or be published side by side with it. I beleve moozooh already updated the submission text to include this run almost as soon as it was submitted.
I found this to be more entertaining than hero's run.
It is, objectively viewed, more entertaining than the realtime oriented run, because it not only looks faster and more diversified in rooms where you benefit from the HJ-Boots or Space Jump, but cuts the last 2 boss figths immensely, and for that shows more action in the additional rooms you have to pass to get the additional items like Plasma. The one and only drawback of this run is the slightly slower realtime completion. Every other goal is achieved as best as it can be with this route.
So there is a drawback (slightly slower realtime completion) and there are upsides, which you listed. In your opinion, the upsides outweigh the drawback.
Right?
Yeah Saturn has a real problem with understanding English and realising what the hell he's saying. Don't worry about it.
I just watched Hero's run, and now I'm gonna watch this. I get the feeling I will vote Yes to both.
Hmm. I liked the spinning in the first Ridley scene, but the flickering got VERY annoying afterwards. Now, here's the bigger point. I can't agree with having both of these movies published anymore... they're just too similar! So many rooms dealt with in the same way (I know you don't have much choice about this). It's pointless watching both, because the differences are so minimal (plasma beam and space jump, woo!). Also, beside the cool spinning, I preferred Hero's messing-about, especially at the statues.
So, I would prefer only Hero's to be published at all, not because of the timing stuff, but because his is objectively more entertaining.
So there is a drawback (slightly slower realtime completion) and there are upsides, which you listed. In your opinion, the upsides outweigh the drawback.
Right?
That's a matter of opinion of course. For TASvideos general rules surely not, but if you had to choose one run to represent maximal moving speed and entertainment level in Super Metroid, you'd surely do better with taking this route for reasons stated before.
Comicalflop and Lag:
Keep in mind that I didn't compare Hero's and Cpadolf's runs with all their individual stylistic choices during the waiting scenes, but "only" the routes of them in general. If you think standing in a corner shooting a charged beam towards a boss for almost a full minute longer is more entertaining than showing off more crazy moves in additional rooms instead, while still ending up with a faster ingame completion timer at the end, then you probably don't understand what entertainment is.
It's all about the realtime completion timer for which Hero's run is superior here, nothing else.
