Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
There's a history to it.
1) Backwalking is discovered on console. Because it is so incredibly easy to do, it is used for all speedruns.
2) Guano's TAS. Backwalking is used, Sidehopping occassionally used, only for very short distances or some uphill slopes.
3) GuanoFlop WIP. Sidehopping is deemed fastest movement for uphill and downhill, backwalking (foolishly) used for everything flat.
4) Mukki finishes his Majora's Mask TAS, and I started looking for speed addresses for MM. I found the exact one, and noted that backwalking has a few frames where it's building up momentum. Sidehopping, as I suspected, had an initial speed faster than max backwalking speed, slowed down mid hop, then when falling the speed increased back to above backwalking max speed.
5) SwordlessLink TASes first segment of Majora's Mask using only sidehops and gains 2 seconds.
6) SwordlessLink and I did some tests, and found sidehopping to be faster even in very large distances. It's also faster for cutting corners better, since in for example Kokiri forest in the maze backwalking was used with sidehops in only non-diagonal movements, whereas moving in diagonals is far faster with sidehopping.
Swordless Link wrote:
It used to be assumed that side hopping was only faster on hills, for some reason. That's why it was never fully used until my run.
This was because visually it was incredibly easy to tell that for uphill and downhill segments, sidehopping is faster.
Sidehopping's speed is the highest at the start of the hop, and after the peak. If going up a hill, Link constantly lands on the ground before his max speed decreases to backwalking speed. When going downhill, Link has more frames where his speed is above backwalking, and iirc it even increases the more he is in the air and falling.
Keep in mind, OoT has many speedrunners and most of the discoveries come from them. This includes forms of movement. When they found supersliding, it became essential for the TAS. The old TAS mimicked the backwalking strategies used in speedruns. Sidehopping is incredibly hard to do in realtime consecutively, it is only noticeably faster when done frame optimally (pressing A 7 frames before Link touches the ground.) And I never bothered to test it, even though I probably should have.
So there you have it.
When they found supersliding, it became essential for the TAS. The old TAS mimiced the backwalking strategies used in speedruns. Sidehopping is incredibly hard to do in realtime consecutively, it is only noticeably faster when done frame optimally (pressing A 7 frames before Link touches the ground.)
How much faster is Supersliding compared to sidehopping and LinkMoonWalking?
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
Just another random gamer
----
<OmnipotentEntity> How do you people get bored in the span of 10 seconds? Worst ADD ever.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Much faster. My point I was trying to make is that for the most part, speedrunning strategies go into the TAS for OoT, rather than the other way around.
There's a history to it.
1) Backwalking is discovered on console. Because it is so incredibly easy to do, it is used for all speedruns.
2) Guano's TAS. Backwalking is used, Sidehopping occassionally used, only for very short distances or some uphill slopes.
3) GuanoFlop WIP. Sidehopping is deemed fastest movement for uphill and downhill, backwalking (foolishly) used for everything flat.
4) Mukki finishes his Majora's Mask TAS, and I started looking for speed addresses for MM. I found the exact one, and noted that backwalking has a few frames where it's building up momentum. Sidehopping, as I suspected, had an initial speed faster than max backwalking speed, slowed down mid hop, then when falling the speed increased back to above backwalking max speed.
5) SwordlessLink TASes first segment of Majora's Mask using only sidehops and gains 2 seconds.
6) SwordlessLink and I did some tests, and found sidehopping to be faster even in very large distances. It's also faster for cutting corners better, since in for example Kokiri forest in the maze backwalking was used with sidehops in only non-diagonal movements, whereas moving in diagonals is far faster with sidehopping.
Just make a video of a linear path (it's usually best to do it along a wall so you know each time you do the same straight line).
Side hop.
Walk backwards.
Back Flip.
Roll.
Then open vDub and do a frame check. I think this is a bug, though - the bug is partially fixed in Majora's Mask (Deku Link can still burn rubber walking backwards, but he's so small it's not faster than other things).
Did anyone actually try this back in the old days?
Just make a video of a linear path (it's usually best to do it along a wall so you know each time you do the same straight line).
Side hop.
Walk backwards.
Back Flip.
Roll.
Then open vDub and do a frame check. I think this is a bug, though - the bug is partially fixed in Majora's Mask (Deku Link can still burn rubber walking backwards, but he's so small it's not faster than other things).
Did anyone actually try this back in the old days?
Hey Swordless Link, how far did you get with the MQ progress? I understand you're now working on OoT now, but can you upload the.m64 of MQ? Thanks man.
If there's anywhere I'd like to see done using the forward-backwards fixed camera it's the Haunted Wasteland... although the prospect of navigating the maze while facing backwards and hopping sideways is not as impressive on a TAS as it would be on a console.
The sidehopping shows enough of where you're going as well as a different angle on the run than you're used to, seeing the action from 90 degrees off every OoT run ever made so far. That is enough to be entertaining without having to fix the camera, but you might as well do it to provide even more interesting angles in any situation you have to wait (not just during superslides... we could watch Link from the side as he sidehops around a room's obstacles).
New trick which could save a little time, its called the super jump.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9JtMVTCnz18&NR=1
found by gamelinkx
EDIT: This doesn't need to be done on a corner, just so long as the object can be hopped onto.
It'll probably save a bit of time with the first superslide in Hyrule Field, since Link can now be angled more towards Gerudo Valley since I don't have to avoid that fence anymore.
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
AKA wrote:
I can't seem to pull off the glitch, I wonder if its hoverboots related.
Video's Description wrote:
... Found by gamelinkx, I think this is new. I uploaded it on mine so I could show larger audiences, ALL CREDIT to gamelinkx! Can only be done with hover boots :'(
Pretty sure it is.
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
There's a difference between "I found a glitch, I'm going to rape the entire game with it" and "Hmm that's a nice glitch, it could maybe be used in x,y, and z locations to save a few seonds". This is one of the latter types.
There's a history to it.
1) Backwalking is discovered on console. Because it is so incredibly easy to do, it is used for all speedruns.
2) Guano's TAS. Backwalking is used, Sidehopping occassionally used, only for very short distances or some uphill slopes.
3) GuanoFlop WIP. Sidehopping is deemed fastest movement for uphill and downhill, backwalking (foolishly) used for everything flat.
4) Mukki finishes his Majora's Mask TAS, and I started looking for speed addresses for MM. I found the exact one, and noted that backwalking has a few frames where it's building up momentum. Sidehopping, as I suspected, had an initial speed faster than max backwalking speed, slowed down mid hop, then when falling the speed increased back to above backwalking max speed.
5) SwordlessLink TASes first segment of Majora's Mask using only sidehops and gains 2 seconds.
6) SwordlessLink and I did some tests, and found sidehopping to be faster even in very large distances. It's also faster for cutting corners better, since in for example Kokiri forest in the maze backwalking was used with sidehops in only non-diagonal movements, whereas moving in diagonals is far faster with sidehopping.
Swordless Link wrote:
It used to be assumed that side hopping was only faster on hills, for some reason. That's why it was never fully used until my run.
This was because visually it was incredibly easy to tell that for uphill and downhill segments, sidehopping is faster.
Sidehopping's speed is the highest at the start of the hop, and after the peak. If going up a hill, Link constantly lands on the ground before his max speed decreases to backwalking speed. When going downhill, Link has more frames where his speed is above backwalking, and iirc it even increases the more he is in the air and falling.
Keep in mind, OoT has many speedrunners and most of the discoveries come from them. This includes forms of movement. When they found supersliding, it became essential for the TAS. The old TAS mimicked the backwalking strategies used in speedruns. Sidehopping is incredibly hard to do in realtime consecutively, it is only noticeably faster when done frame optimally (pressing A 7 frames before Link touches the ground.) And I never bothered to test it, even though I probably should have.
So there you have it.
Let's get all the facts straight. Sidehopping is always faster as young Link, and backwalking is always faster as adult Link. Easy, mkay?
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Comicalflop wrote:
Got proof?
I'll try. When you get older, you get longer legs and therefore you take longer steps. Often as a grown up, you dont wanna wear yourself out by side hopping because you get tired fast. But as a kid, you have lots of energy and shorter legs. So when you walk backwards as a child, your energy isnt fully used, thus young Link moves faster when he is side hopping.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
The reason why everyone thought backwalking was the fastest movement in the game was because all the tests were done as AL.
EDIT: OK, I just tested it over a long stretch in Hyrule and found it to be 3 seconds quicker compared to sidehopping.
