Luck manipulation in Oracle of Ages. Seriously, try manipulting enemies in that game. You'll be at your wit's end in less than five minutes.
To a lesser extent, subpixels also piss me the hell off.
Joined: 12/27/2006
Posts: 532
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
moozooh wrote:
There are no subpixels in Oracle of Ages, though.
There aren't? How else you would you explain loosing frames over dezbeast's WIP (OoS now) while taking the exact same path? Or failing the pitwalk when actually copying his input?
My published movies
[03:45:05] <Naohiro19> Soulrivers: ...
[03:45:19] <Soulrivers> ?
[03:46:35] <Naohiro19> <Soulrivers> No! <Naohiro19> So? <Soulrivers> Yes!
[03:46:48] <Naohiro19> joke
I thought it was common sense to attribute the cause of a problem to some factor only after you've successfully confirmed it. So I take it you have the addresses for subpixel coordinates and/or speed then, which let you know it actually was subpixels, and not something else, that made you lose frames? I'm fine with being proven wrong.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 12/27/2006
Posts: 532
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
moozooh wrote:
I thought it was common sense to attribute the cause of a problem to some factor only after you've successfully confirmed it. So I take it you have the addresses for subpixel coordinates and/or speed then, which let you know it actually was subpixels, and not something else, that made you lose frames? I'm fine with being proven wrong.
So you're right until proven otherwise?
My published movies
[03:45:05] <Naohiro19> Soulrivers: ...
[03:45:19] <Soulrivers> ?
[03:46:35] <Naohiro19> <Soulrivers> No! <Naohiro19> So? <Soulrivers> Yes!
[03:46:48] <Naohiro19> joke
It doesn't make a lot of sense in the context of the discussion; GBx games (and a lot of GBA games, too), especially non-platformers, don't usually track subpixel movement, so "how else do you explain" is… not really a way to explain. If you don't have a solid evidence (which would be one of the memory addresses mentioned above) to base your claim on, how can you be sure it is the cause of your problem? That way I could also blame you for the lack of proper heating in my room, and following your logic you will be the one required to vindicate yourself.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
I think it's just having to be a frame nazi and eliminate every little frame that doesn't fit. I've been trying to do TAS stuff for about three and a half years now and I still can't seem to figure that out.
And the looking at other videos and comparing them to mine, eh...heh heh...it gets me quite intimidated and worried that if I actually end up submitting something I'm proud of and have busted my ass on, it's gonna end up getting rejected.
Joined: 12/27/2006
Posts: 532
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Rick wrote:
And the looking at other videos and comparing them to mine, eh...heh heh...it gets me quite intimidated and worried that if I actually end up submitting something I'm proud of and have busted my ass on, it's gonna end up getting rejected.
I guess everyone felt that way in the beginning. I know I was worried for making any mistakes when I submitted my first TAS, though it did turn out well. I think it really helps to have an experienced TASer to help you review your WIPs to see what you can improve. You don't have to be familiar with a game to spot everyday mistakes.
My published movies
[03:45:05] <Naohiro19> Soulrivers: ...
[03:45:19] <Soulrivers> ?
[03:46:35] <Naohiro19> <Soulrivers> No! <Naohiro19> So? <Soulrivers> Yes!
[03:46:48] <Naohiro19> joke
Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 97
Location: Everywhere including nowhere
There are three parts of TASing that frustrate me: Frame-by-frame optimization, "making art of wait periods," and boss battles. Especially when the boss is hard/fought with little or no weapons/has very damaging attacks. Or, in the case of the boss that made me give up on TGL, all three.
Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
The only parts of TASing that annoy me to any great extent are
1) Redoing half a TAS to include a trick that you didn't know about / recently discovered. This gets annoyance bonus points if the game is not hex friendly and you have to redo the whole thing. The latter seems to be the most common.
2) Keeping motivation for an entire project and trying to ignore the lures of a shiny new TAS to work on.
Other than that I generally enjoy TASing :)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Mukki wrote:
2) Keeping motivation for an entire project and trying to ignore the lures of a shiny new TAS to work on.
O_O it's like you're speaking directly to me!
I'm surprised you didn't mention desynchs as your biggest beef. 10 months of Majora's Mask would drive anyone insane.
All of the above in one way or another I agree as being irritating. Some are hard in addition (in fact, I think hard and irritating are separate in TASing), but everything listed is irritating for sure.
Did you happen to work several hours trying to save 3-4 frames and succeeded but later you lose them because of some FUCKING ASSHOLE BULLSHIT OF SON OF A BITCH frames rule? It just happen to me. Ça fait chier en crisssss.
Worst parts for me:
-Dealing with lag. Figuring out which frames your keypresses are ignored, especially when trying to fire every frame or something. Also, having to avoid lag is overall really dumb.
-Working with your character off the screen.
-When improving a movie, having improvements on early levels screw up the luck manipulation for later levels, breaking important moves or tricks. (I'm talking to you, Widget.)
-Spending hours trying to perform an awesome new trick, only to find that the trick is impossible by one or two frames. Then spending even more hours trying it all over again because there has to be some way to do it, if only you could optimize something or change something earlier in the level by just a tiny bit... and, of course, failing that as well.
I had that happen while I was redoing my Run Saber run; during Stage 3, I did some very stylish jump-kick-bouncing-off-enemies to get over a spike pit; when I redid the run, I couldn't for the life of me manipulate the enemies to be where I needed them to be. I did get it eventually, but I probably lost some time.
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
I've been through HELL:
- when I've competed with Phil in NES battletoads. He's either a complete genius or did TASing all day long. Or both. It was a nightmare and very disappointing to see his movie work so well. I know how hard that game's physics is to control and to optimize.
- when I had to find motivation to continue making the first 120 stars TAS of super mario 64. It took me a full year... It didn't disappoint me much when Rikku quickly made an improvement though, he could work on it real quick and that is good, but my slow progress on the game kept me wanting to TAS/play something else, and so I did several times.
Interestingly, making ebtertainment out of waiting periods is by far what I like the most about TASing. It symbolizes really well what a TAS means to me = "owning" a game so easily that the main character seems to be just having fun.
Desyncs, especially when working in the early Dolphin revision 7323 (desyncs were frequent and annoying considering I was working with a 3D game).
The other one is finding an improvement of a few frames in the beginning of your movie due to naturally finding new, faster strategies as you progress in the run. And if you didn't know about Notepad++ or TAS Movie Editor, then you had to make the whole run over again (like GBC SpongeBob for me).
