I'm just going to chime in to say I think this is a bad idea. Not the part about making a freeware game, just the part about making a game solely so you can TAS it. The only reason TASing is interesting is because the games that we do it to were made without even any inkling that TASes would one day be possible.
Of course, the other part that I think is a bad idea is making a serious story for it, I have a feeling that anything most of us (myself included) would write for such a game would come out sounding like bad fanfiction.
So yeah, that's my two cents.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
I object to anything that uses my nickname as a pun or otherwise.
Would you be OK with a cookie that's not called Bisqwit or anything similar?
upthorn wrote:
I'm just going to chime in to say I think this is a bad idea. Not the part about making a freeware game, just the part about making a game solely so you can TAS it.
I'm also not so sure about this... But the idea of limiting the use of TAS features as part of the plot could maybe turn out to be fun. Idk.
upthotn wrote:
Of course, the other part that I think is a bad idea is making a serious story for it
I think there has to be at least a bit of a story behind it, or else the game would seem too random. Nothing like an RPG though. Look at the story behind Sonic, for example. It's just enough for the game not to seem entirely random.
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjavík, Ísland
It's my understanding that almost all discussions like this ultimately go absolutely nowhere. However, if something does start rolling, I would be happy to design some levels, if someone would code a half-decent level editor.
However, I agree with upthorn;
upthorn wrote:
The only reason TASing is interesting is because the games that we do it to were made without even any inkling that TASes would one day be possible.
Absolutely correct.
The game should have replaying capabilities, yes, but if it has built-in TAS capabilities, it will be an incredibly easy and boring game. In fact, it won't even be a game at all, it'll be more like a "hey look at the cool program I made" program which will be completely pointless.
The only way to do this correctly, if you want to have any TAS stuff in the game at all, is to make the TASing tool an internal game mechanic, and a VERY limited resource. Kinda like the bullet-time in Max Payne. The player could pick up pause cards, which would enable them to pause the game once and then frame-advance 60 times (or less), a save card which would let them save at one point and then reload from it up to 5 times. And so on.
Since this would be an internal game mechanic, it would be included, or should I say not included, in the replay file resulting from the playing session, and that replay file would then be completely "valid". I think this is the only way to make this interesting, or at least the only way I can think of. Of course, this means the game would not have actual TAS capabilities, unless people hacked the game and gave themselves infinite pause/save cards. Even then, it should still be very limited and maybe wouldn't be such a good idea to have it after all. Maybe just slowdowns (bullet-time allows for careful wall jumping) and something like the sands of time from POP: Sands of time should be implemented.
The plot could be about some game character who is becoming aware of the nature of his existence, who slowly gains the ability to "hack" stuff, use "glitches" (which wouldn't actually be glitches) like walking through certain types of walls (if it has a certain block configuration you could jump into the corner, and so on). Map designing for such a game would be an interesting challenge. In fact, the plot could easily be a parody of The Matrix.
Think of what you'd get if you crossed Super Mario 64 with River City Ransom: a great physics engine, a shopping/upgrades system, and some intensely cool fighting.
The design would take into account that the player has superhuman reflexes, and can see well into the future. IE, instead of "acro circus" you'd have some ability that is impossible to control in realtime.
Someone else can make a game about a giant cookie or about 3D complex graphics or about in-game tools. I'll make a quick Rockman clone and release the source like within a week and whatever you guys want to do with it, fine. It won't be good but "Rockman clone" gives more information than "he should fight the video game characters~!" (which doesn't say anything like "how does the character move?" by which I mean "how fast / agile is the character, are there multiple movement options, can e jump and if so how high, is there double jumping, is there walljumping, etc" nor "what challenges should the player face?" by which I mean "is it possible to die or does 'getting hit' only slow you down, if you can die can you take damage or is it one-hit-kill, is the game mostly about avoiding instadeath traps or about navigating an obstacle course or about dealing with enemies, can the character even attack, etc")
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster.
I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjavík, Ísland
That is very cool, Boco, if you release something, it's certainly more than what everyone else has done. I think everyone here (including me) is just throwing out ideas which might or might not work, while not really thinking about how hard it would be to program them.
Wow, I'd totally love the idea of making glitches part of the plot too. ^^
If we keep a cookie as the main character (looks like we don't), here are some ideas for the physics:
A cookie is light, so it shouldn't fall fast.
A cookie is round so after passing a certain speed limit or on certain slopes it would start rolling. This would make it more difficult to stop.
The cookie could walk on water if it's fast enough. Only if it's soaked up, it would drown.
A soaked up cookie is heavier (falls faster, starts to roll earlier, faster when rolling downhill) and it slowly dries in the sun.
A cookie is delicious so some enemies would try to eat it, which would instantly kill it.
Crashing into walls or into the ground at high speed would cause a cookie to break, which would also kill it. Maybe it would only get some cracks at first which could slowly disappear again.
How can it hurt enemies, difficult question.
Maybe by using a chocolate chip blaster?
Maybe you could charge the blaster and the more charged it is, the faster the bullets go. They'd also fall to the ground after a certain time, due to gravity.
Other enemies would try to shoot the cookie too, again causing it to slowly crack.
While it's rolling, the cookie might be fast enough to hurt enemies.
Using the chocolate chip blaster while rolling would theoretically cause it to shoot into a semi-random direction. This would maybe feel kind of lame though.
EDIT: Maybe shooting while rolling could slow the cookie down as a result of the repel. But it would waste ammo (?) in the process.
On ice, the cookie could maybe move like a puck and be able to pass through small passages that way.
Later upgrades could maybe include an ice shot to put ice on the floor or a water/coffee shot so the cookie can turn into its soaked up form.
So far I imagine this to be very difficult to program, while it maybe wouldn't be that much fun to play the game, but who knows.
Mh... I guess the whole cookie idea sucks. XD
I'm sorry if my ideas aren't interesting enough or if they don't come quickly enough. But I'm trying to do my best. >_>
The big difference between freeware and comercial games is that in freeware games the programmers decide what they want to do and what not. So yea..
Anyways, good luck, Boco!
Joined: 11/27/2004
Posts: 688
Location: WA State, USA
Blublu wrote:
The only way to do this correctly, if you want to have any TAS stuff in the game at all, is to make the TASing tool an internal game mechanic, and a VERY limited resource. Kinda like the bullet-time in Max Payne. The player could pick up pause cards, which would enable them to pause the game once and then frame-advance 60 times (or less), a save card which would let them save at one point and then reload from it up to 5 times. And so on.
I disagree. If we are assuming that the main mode of play would involve using TASing tools, the levels should be designed that in mind by making the margin of error inhumanly small. I think that frame advance/slowdown should be usable at all times, but rerecords should allotted to the player in a manner similar to lives.
As far as the character is concerned, I think it should be able to go very fast but poor brakes. Arbitrary speed caps should be avoided, and fall/wall damage is a must. A grappling hook or something similar would make platforming very interesting. The character should stomp on enemies, which should provide a speed and height boost, but should also be provided with some sort of Mega Man-esque peashooter.
And "glitches" are a must.
Also, while I think the cookie idea is interesting, I don't think it would work very well. Of course, there's nothing stopping the character from having the ability to transform into a ball or disc.
Nach wrote:
I also used to wake up every morning, open my curtains, and see the twin towers. And then one day, wasn't able to anymore, I'll never forget that.
Maybe the character could look kind of like corrupt data (you know, random characters) with a vaguely humanoid shape? Call him Glitch, or something.
Edit: And his pea-shooter would shoot tiny bugs. =P
Here's a game I and my brother made when we were 15 or something. It is called Ogre and the applequest (20 kb), requires DosBox to run. Crisp graphics! Superb PC-speaker soundeffects! The source was in Pascal, but has been lost forever in a CIH-virus crash.
Rules:
- All apples give you 1 point.
- Lollipops give you 3 points. They appear every 10 points.
- The rotten apples removes your ability to steer.
- The fresh red apples keep/return your ability to steer.
- The fresh red apples increases your movement speed.
- There is a bug which gives you infinite points and hangs the game. And some others.
My highscore is currently 78 (can't remember what it was before), feel free to beat it.
----
The reason I'm posting it in this topic is
1) I managed to get it working again just today, didn't know DosBox would fix it,
2) It's easy to post ludicrous ideas but hard to actually make something, and
3) I feel like programming a new game now.
I know how hard it is to make games. The main problem that prevents me from doing it myself is that I have no clue how to properly handle graphics/sound. And I don't want to spend ages just to find out how it doesn't work, which I've already done several times. I know how it works in Java, but it's too slow. I could never get it to work in C/C++/C# the way I would have liked it to.
So, my point is, if somebody posts working source code, even if it's in Pascal, which is a language I don't know, I think I should be able to help by modifying it.
I know how hard it is to make games. The main problem that prevents me from doing it myself is that I have no clue how to properly handle graphics/sound.
The common way to do that is to use an existing library, such as for example http://www.libsdl.org/
there are many game libraries, such as allegro.
the "easy" way to make and share a small game would be Flash, as there are many tutorials available for game development.
I never sleep, 'cause sleep is the cousin of death - NAS
Yes, and a whole lot of other things besides before talking about "the main character is a cookie that's HILARIOUS".
I don't get the kicks if the main character is a cookie. It was an idea, and while expanding it I realised it was a bad one. Also, I'm just not so good at thinking first, and then doing. I'm more of the trial and error type.
Boco wrote:
Yes, no thanks to you. The movement engine is done except for one annoying bug I want to squish before I move to animation.
I'm well aware of the fact that I don't deserve any thanks yet, lol. I hope I can still be of help later on. Even if all I can do is motivating others by making them want to prove that I'm a fool. :X
Anyways, glad to hear you're making good progress. ^^
The movement and physics are done. I can't figure out how to make an animation data structure that does what I want.. so I'm settling for something else, and it's mostly done so animation will be in tomorrow. Next after that is large levels and camera movement, then level loading, then I'll make a level editor (maybe). Sometime along that I'll clean up the code and put it here for anyone wh wants to see. I'm trying to make it so it's as easy to change stuff as possible even for people who don't program (so once all the hard stuff is out of the way people can have fun making characters and levels and whatever they want to do with it).
JXQ wrote:
Boco, do you really need to be such a bitch?
Yes
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster.
I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Wouldn't it be better to decide on what the game is and how it works before picking a platform/language/etc'?
I don't understand the relation between those two things. Choice of game type has basically nothing to do with choice of platform (more than that we are talking about desktop computers), and vice-versa.
Both things can be discussed independently and they do not affect each other. Thus I don't understand why it would be "better" to discuss one before the other.
