Joined: 12/20/2007
Posts: 35
Location: Montreal
Ok it's been discussed here before, and I would like to get serious about this one now. It's christmas time I've got a couple of weeks off, and nothing better to do than give this a shot. I'm not familiar enough with MQ to start on that, and can't stand to play on any other game than OoT for an extensive period of time. Now is this what people would agree on being a low% run for OoT or is there something I'm missing? Kokiri Forest -Kokiri Sword -Wooden Shield Deku tree -Deku nuts ---Skulltula Vine glitch ---Ghoma with deku nuts -1st stone Kokiri Forest -Fairy Ocarina Hyrule castle -Zelda's Lullaby -Zelda's Letter Kakariko Village ---BotW early ---Skulltula glitch for bombchu's Dodongo's Cavern ---Bomchu megaflip to bomb bag -Bomb bag & bombs -2nd stone Death mountain -Magic Meter Zora's river ---Owl skip ---Waterfall skip Zora's domain ---King Zora's skip Jabu-Jabu's belly ---Enter without fish ---Bombchu to hit switch in 1st room --Boomerang ---Megaflip towards boss room -3rd stone Hyrule Field ---Superslide into cutscene -SoT -Ocarina of time -Master Sword -Light Medallion Graveyard -Hylian shield ---Shadow Temple early Shadow Temple ---Mega flip gap -Hover boots ---Through the wall using manual superslide ---Bomb hover to boat wheel ---Boss key trick ---Super slide to boss room -Shadow Medallion Gerudo Valley ---Superslide/Megaflip across the bridge ---Bomb hover over wall ---Adult Gate skip ---Cross wasteland Spirit temple ---Silver gauntlet block skip ---Hit crystal with bombchu -Mirror Shield ---Bomb hover to boss door -Spirit Medallion -Light Arrow Sacred forest meadow ---Bomb jump to skip gards ---Bomb hover to skip Minuet cutscene ---Bombchu Hover in Forest Temple Forest Temple ---Mega jump ---Block room skip -Bow & Arrows & Quiver Ganon's Castle ---Trials Skip <Kill> ---Superslide into Ganon <Kill> Obviously, no heart containers/pieces, no golden skulltula. IMHO, the run differs from an any% enough to be worthwhile. Let me know what you all think. Credits go to ZFG for the low% route. This route is for a regular segmented speedrun, but I don't think anything else can be skipped even in a TAS. Comfirmation of this as well, please?
Current Project: Zelda Low% Run Status: Rupee Route
Joined: 7/22/2007
Posts: 17
Im just posting this so you can compare
Someone from the OoT Thread wrote:
A minimilist run would be possible, but speedrunning like that would be very difficult. You also run into the issue of which items you get/skip. I think this is the minimum: Kokiri Sword Master Sword Deku Shield Mirror Shield Kokiri Boots Kokiri Tunic Silver Scale/Gold Scale + Letter in Bottle w/Bottle*A Boomerang Bombchus Goron Bracelet/Silver Gauntlets/Bomb Bag*B Deku Sticks*C Fairy Bow Light Arrows Hover Boots Hookshot Fairy Ocarina Ocarina of Time Saria's Song*D Zelda's Lullaby*E Magic Beans Song of Time Requiem of Spirit/Gerudo Membership Pass(hint: pick Requirem) Minuet of Forest Kokiri Emerald, Goron Ruby, Zora Sapphire Light Medallion, Shadow Medallion, Spirit Medallion *A - If you can bombchu hover over King Zora, this becomes unnessecary. *B - If you can manage to kill King Dodongo with Bombchus, this becomes unnessecary for Kid Link. However, with no shield as an adult until the Mirror Shield, ground jumping becomes impossible. If you can't glitch past the silver block in the first room of adult spirit without a shield, you have to get the Silver Gauntlets or the Hylain Shield, and the Silver Gauntlets make life so much easier that you'd be a fool to not pick them. *C - New tricks in the Deku Tree let you get out of the forest without them. They aren't needed in Jabu Jabu's Belly, and with all the sequence breaks in Dodongo's Cavern, you might be able to get away without using them there either. That just leaves child spirit for Deku Sticks, and if shenanagans can get you past, that's good. If they can't but you can get to Bombchus without Deku Sticks and you can either beat King Dodongo with Bombchus or can get to the Mirror Shield without the Hylian Shield or silver gauntlets, you could skip Deku Sticks in favor of the Goron Bracelet/Bombs if KD isn't skippable(note: you would have had to get one of those or Silver Gauntlets anyway in that case), in favor of the Hylian Shield if you can't get to the Mirror Shield and if those are needed, or just plain to cut down the items collected notably if you can pull off both tricks. *D - If you can hover over Mido, you can avoid this. So, those are a few questions for low%. Can you actually beat King Dodongo with Bombchus(I've been told hovering can trick that; I am skeptical), can you bomb hover past King Zora, and can you get to the Mirror Shield without Silver Gauntlets or the Hylian Shield? I think all fairy interactions are unnessecary as extending early shadow can let you skip the use of Din's Fire there, and I don't think you actually need fire anywhere else in the run. Farore's Wind and Nayru's Love were just conveniences anyway. No magic meter is nice; infinite magic for Light Arrows! Remember you can get infinite Bombchus from Bombchu Bowling, and that's the only way you will be getting more. Then again, I don't know what the trigger for that to start is. If it's getting the Bomb Bag, you're out of luck on that front and had better make every Bombchu count(you can get more in the Bottom of the Well once, and while it's a little late, there are some in Ganon's Castle). It would be extremely painful to do a low% on this, let alone as a speedrun. It would take a very long time in all liklihood for how little you'd actually be accomplishing. The whole thing would be about how far you could push glitches to skip items... This topic here is obviously quite the opposite, the 100% topic. You also have the controversy over whether stuff like the Silver Gauntlets and the Gold Scale counts as one item or two since getting them is getting a powered up version of an item you skipped.
Thats from the OoT thread I think, I cant find the poster though.
Mitjitsu
He/Him
Banned User
Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997
BTW, what you've mentioned isn't even remotely a min%. Also I feel it would be too simalar to a any% run, plus you could have posted this in the main topic.
Joined: 12/20/2007
Posts: 35
Location: Montreal
@AKA: I didn't post this in the main topic because I get lost in it... however I wouldn't ming if Bisqwit was to merge the topics. And was your comment about the route being far from low% aimed at ZFG's or DJLO? Because ZFG's route is a lot closer to a low% than DJLO's... All I would end up with is: Kokiri tunic Kokiri boots Hover boots Master Sword Hilyan Shield Mirror Shield 3 spiritual stones Light, shadow, spirit medallion Zelda's lullaby Song of time Prelude of light Deku nuts Fairy ocarina Zelda's letter Bombchus Bomb bag & bombs Magic meter (or can you use light arrow without?) Boomerang Ocarina of time Hylian shield Hover boots Bow, arrows & quiver Light arrow No bottle, no scale, no deku sticks, no slingshot/seeds/bag, no hookshot, no magic beans, no minuet of forest, no bracelet/gauntlet, no RoS/gerudo membership... etc. If anything else in this route is skippable let me know. (Magic meter maybe) The route is similar to Guano's run, but will differ a lot from the upcoming any% with RBA. I think the entertainment value of this run will be above watching adult link backflipping a few times and dropping a fish, to suddenly sing a song he's never learned and have items he's never picked up. Although I believe it is remarkable to clear OoT in less than 1h45, I also think it might be interesting to have a run show more of the game, still have a clear goal, and being easier to understand for viewers while not being WAY LONGER like a 100% would be).
Current Project: Zelda Low% Run Status: Rupee Route
Editor, Experienced player (735)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
you can tell if it's a low% if you have to spend far more effort and glitches to get by with fewer items. The running length should be way longer than any%. I'd wait until the any% is done first (especially if the leave forest early trick works), so that you can see what you can skip in that. Also, a low% run would still use bottle adventure, which the any% uses also as well anyways so... I'd wait for any% to be done and published first before jumping to conclusions.
Homepage ☣ Retired
Joined: 12/20/2007
Posts: 35
Location: Montreal
I don't think RBA could be used for a low%. Since even if it was to give you only the absolutely minimum set of items (right now it gives you bunch of medallions/songs/items/equips not required)... you would still have bottles... and deku sticks. Which are skippable.
Current Project: Zelda Low% Run Status: Rupee Route
Editor, Experienced player (735)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Yes, but think about this. Getting the bottles and deku sticks lets you skip SOOOOOO many more items than if you had to complete those dungeons normally. Also, the hylian shield is skippable.
Homepage ☣ Retired
Experienced player (829)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
In a game that is able to glitch basically any item into your inventory, I don't see the point of a low %, mainly because the goals would be very fuzzy. If you don't use BA or RBA, then it will be significantly longer than the any%. But say you use the RBA just once to shave 15 minutes off, but it adds 1 more item... it seems like too contrived of a goal to me.
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Joined: 12/20/2007
Posts: 35
Location: Montreal
Well the goal of a low% is to pick only the minimum required to beat the game. All low% runs of any games would be improved in time by picking more items... I don't understand your point.
Current Project: Zelda Low% Run Status: Rupee Route
Editor, Experienced player (735)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Well, the any% will be picking up so precious few items anyway with BA. If you could beat all of OoT with just the sword, shield, deku sticks, and slingshot (for example), and like nothing else, that'd be impressive. If you collect like 3 less items than the any% BA, then you've accomplished nothing. Any of those low% lists that's been mentioned in this thread closely mirrors the any% BA.
Homepage ☣ Retired
Joined: 12/20/2007
Posts: 35
Location: Montreal
Ok I see, than I might need some help, and if BA was to be used for a low% it might not be worth it against the any%... So I'd end up with 2 bottles, deku stick, slingshot, seeds, and bullet bag to do bottle adventure. But I would save on... mirror shield? I'm not too familliar with the items you end up with in the new any%... so fire away. (What items are required for BA,... and what items do you end up with.)
Current Project: Zelda Low% Run Status: Rupee Route
Editor, Experienced player (735)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
This is pretty much what the any% route was looking like before the forest early discovery was made. This may still be what is used if the odd potion on C right to BA the 3 stones and ocarina and song doesn't work.
Homepage ☣ Retired
Joined: 12/20/2007
Posts: 35
Location: Montreal
I'll try to get a test run going when I get home from work... (in about 2 hours). And see what the response is. And maybe I'll get a better idea if it is intertainning or not?! (also get an estimated ending time) It's lame to be doing nightshift in a server room. *yawn*
Current Project: Zelda Low% Run Status: Rupee Route
Joined: 7/16/2006
Posts: 635
Now low% Majora's Mask... THAT would be interesting. I mean, who doesn't want to see a TAS of Twinmold sans Giant's Mask?
Joined: 12/20/2007
Posts: 35
Location: Montreal
Here's a starting WIP for the test run... It's up until the deku tree entrance... So it's pretty much the same crap as usual, but I'm not taking any deku sticks. Remember it's not fully optimized so don't flame telling me it's not frame perfect... :) To DEKU TREE Edit: I'll keep using PaToby as the in-game name, and not "A". Because I can.
Current Project: Zelda Low% Run Status: Rupee Route
Mitjitsu
He/Him
Banned User
Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997
Why would you goto the Deku Tree first if you can skip the Kokiri Sword.
Joined: 12/20/2007
Posts: 35
Location: Montreal
Skip the kokiri sword? What the hell? Have I missed something? Because from what I know...............
Current Project: Zelda Low% Run Status: Rupee Route
Experienced player (534)
Joined: 1/12/2007
Posts: 682
The infinite sword glitch can be done with a deku stick, which you can buy from the store.
Joined: 12/20/2007
Posts: 35
Location: Montreal
But there's no point in skipping 1 item by picking another one...
Current Project: Zelda Low% Run Status: Rupee Route
Experienced player (534)
Joined: 1/12/2007
Posts: 682
Meh. I was only answering the "Skip the kokiri sword? What the hell?" part. The WIP wasn't bad, and I know it's only a test run at the moment, but when you go to do the real run, don't name him something as long as that. And roll out of the shop, and while talking to Mido, there's a part of his text which you can cycle through quickly by just pressing B. Backwalking right after Mido is faster than sidehopping (since you need to wait a while before you can sidehop after talking to him, for some reason). I tested and confirmed this in my run.
Joined: 12/20/2007
Posts: 35
Location: Montreal
Ok! Thanks a lot! Either way I guess we'll see if we can do anything with the "escape the forest early"...
Current Project: Zelda Low% Run Status: Rupee Route
Editor, Experienced player (735)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
trust me, skipping the kokiri sword and using the deku sticks up until the master sword is automatically gotten will be more badass than using the sword for low%.
Homepage ☣ Retired
Joined: 5/13/2006
Posts: 283
But which is lower %- getting one multi-use item or getting many (mostly-)single-use items?
<Zurreco> if so called professional players cant adapt to every playing field, theyre obviously not that great
Editor, Experienced player (735)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
considering how essential the kokiri sword is for slashing, killing bosses, and other pointy stuff, and how you are EXPECTED to have to collect it to get past mido and beat the deku tree... I'd consider deku sticks to be a lower%.
Homepage ☣ Retired
Joined: 12/20/2007
Posts: 35
Location: Montreal
Agreed. It would be gar more interesting to see a kid run without the kokiri sword. Plus, it would add some difference with the any%. So even if leaving forest early doesn't end up helpful I should use deku sticks and skip the sword. Does anyone see problems to only use deku sticks at some point in the kid run? You can bomb hover with infinite deku stick. I'll just need to collect sticks more often. (Ex. need 3 only for gohma) And I seem to have problems with the vine glitch... is there anything I should align with while jumping/breaking the web?
Current Project: Zelda Low% Run Status: Rupee Route