Posted: 11/6/2007 1:58 AM
Post subject: Speedruns with speed up
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Ramzi
Joined: 3/25/2004
Posts: 459
I had this idea for a while. Imagine a human speedrun competition, where the humans can only use speed up. No slow down or save states. This would allow for faster walking or text scrolling. Of course, you can't play too fast, or you'll die. I just tried this sort of run on Zelda 1. I usually walked at 200%, a quick 800% for text or triforce ceremonies, and battle at 150%. I "slowed down" back to 100% for the blue darknut rooms, and I found them to be a lot easier. It seemed as if playing at a faster speed improved my skill.
Posted: 11/14/2007 5:08 AM
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FractalFusion
Editor, Expert player (2080)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3284
Glitchy TAS of 2013 Gameboy TAS of 2013 PSX TASer of 2010
Almost all games are hard enough even at 100% speed. Although I don't really speedrun games, I do play Pokemon games at 200% speed. There's also a game that has a really stupid DDR-like minigame; I play it on 200% speed because it's fun that way, and I can't wait to get past it.
Posted: 11/14/2007 5:10 AM
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sgrunt
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Former player
Joined: 10/28/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: The dark horror in the back of your mind
FractalFusion wrote:
There's also a game that has a really stupid DDR-like minigame[...]
I'm sure there are quite a few games that have those. I also think they're useless.
Posted: 11/14/2007 3:57 PM
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JRL_
Joined: 9/22/2007
Posts: 56
Location: In UR Famicom
FractalFusion wrote:
Almost all games are hard enough even at 100% speed.
In my opinion, playing on a console is easier than playing in full speed on an emulator. For example, on Mega Man X & X3, I can at least reach Sigma's stage on the console, but I can't on the emulator.
Posted: 11/14/2007 4:52 PM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
JRL_ wrote:
In my opinion, playing on a console is easier than playing in full speed on an emulator. For example, on Mega Man X & X3, I can at least reach Sigma's stage on the console, but I can't on the emulator.
Might be a controller issue. In fact, playing at a higher speed does improve your reflexes, at least temporarily — until your brain has re-accomodated to the normal (slower) speed, you will have a benefit of having your reflex basically overclocked for a few hours. However, it also may throw off your timing if you are relying on it more than on pure reflex in your runs (which may be especially obstructive in memorization-heavy games). Playing game at a slower speed almost always hurts your ability, though.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 11/14/2007 5:13 PM
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Derakon
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
As an example, Devil May Cry 3 (PS2 game) has an edition with a "Turbo" mode that ups the game speed by 20%. Playing on turbo throws you off for moves that require careful timing - things like jump-cancelling attacks multiple times in succession - until you get used to it. But you get very good at dodging attacks, and eventually you get the timing down for all of your tricks again. Drop it down to normal, and suddenly your re-learned timings are all wrong, but the monsters seem to move in molasses. Hmm...I should try a Super Metroid run at enhanced speeds. Should be interesting, but I'd have to take an alternative route with more energy tanks, since I'm pretty certain to take more damage.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Posted: 11/17/2007 10:57 AM
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xenos
Player (120)
Joined: 1/30/2007
Posts: 82
Coincidently I was recently playing Super Mario Land at higher speeds to improve my skill. I did level 1-1 at 200%, the others are too hard at this speed. Here is a video of that first level.
Posted: 11/17/2007 3:00 PM
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CyruS
Joined: 11/3/2007
Posts: 31
I'd do something at 200% speed but i dont want to encode it, that meaning i cant prove i did it at 200% speed
Posted: 11/17/2007 5:29 PM
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JRL_
Joined: 9/22/2007
Posts: 56
Location: In UR Famicom
moozooh wrote:
JRL_ wrote:
In my opinion, playing on a console is easier than playing in full speed on an emulator. For example, on Mega Man X & X3, I can at least reach Sigma's stage on the console, but I can't on the emulator.
Might be a controller issue. In fact, playing at a higher speed does improve your reflexes, at least temporarily — until your brain has re-accomodated to the normal (slower) speed, you will have a benefit of having your reflex basically overclocked for a few hours. However, it also may throw off your timing if you are relying on it more than on pure reflex in your runs (which may be especially obstructive in memorization-heavy games). Playing game at a slower speed almost always hurts your ability, though.
I actually meant 100% speed on the emulator(normal speed)
Posted: 11/18/2007 12:38 PM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
I know. Only my first line was addressing your issue, the rest was unrelated.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 11/20/2007 5:53 AM
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Derakon
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
I took a shot at this on Super Metroid...bad idea. The game's quite complex and requires precise motion; trivial by now for me at normal speed, but at 200% it's much more difficult. Formerly trivial platforming became much harder, even if there weren't any monsters in the area. Plus, that little invincibility window after getting hit is barely enough to register that I'm not where I meant to be. I spent a lot of time standing on spikes. :( I did use savestates; Kraid and Phantoon both took multiple tries (Kraid particularly loved to toss me off of the high platforms repeatedly). I am in fact still stuck at Ridley, with 9 E-tanks, 2 reserve tanks, and just not enough skill to beat him. Draygon oddly enough was cake, and Botwoon merely very hard to hit (went in with 105 missiles, came out with 6). I did the early supermissiles, early Spazer, Kraid without hi-jump, and skipped Grapple Beam; that's about it for sequence breaks. Oddly enough, I got the mockball on my third try. I don't know of any way to get less of a speedup than 200%; the only setting I have that appears to modify emulation speed is the turbo multiplier, which has only integer values. I'd like to try this at 150%; that seems like it'd be much more doable. Also, I would make a .smv, except that every movie I've ever downloaded desyncs, so I suspect that any movie I'd upload would also desync. Is there a guide somewhere to playing .smv files on SNES9x 1.4.3 for the Mac? Or alternatively, I downloaded 1.5.1, but it appears to do nothing when I select the .smv file after choosing "Play Movie...".
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Posted: 11/20/2007 7:28 AM
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sgrunt
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Former player
Joined: 10/28/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: The dark horror in the back of your mind
Derakon wrote:
Also, I would make a .smv, except that every movie I've ever downloaded desyncs, so I suspect that any movie I'd upload would also desync.
Most .smvs here appear to use the timing of 1.43-WIP1, so if you can find a Mac version of that floating around you might try using that.
Posted: 11/20/2007 9:38 AM
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Enhasa
Joined: 1/14/2005
Posts: 216
This topic came up on SDA before. stanski did a (informal) run for SMB1 at 200% that I uploaded here.
"I think happiness is just being able to loaf without stress." http://speeddemosarchive.com/
Posted: 11/21/2007 4:22 AM
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JRL_
Joined: 9/22/2007
Posts: 56
Location: In UR Famicom
moozooh wrote:
I know. Only my first line was addressing your issue, the rest was unrelated.
Oh I see what you mean.