River City Ransom is a goofy game which deserves a goofy TAS.
Emulator used: FCEU 0.98.16
Does not aim for fastest time
Plays on Novice level
Uses time to save trashcan
We looked at previous submissions and demonstrations of this game and tried to include the most entertaining parts of what was available, and add in a few ideas of our own along the way. Hopefully you'll get a kick out of it.
Bonus: Watch this run with the option "Allow more than 8 sprites per scanline" checked to make it easier to see when there are many sprites on the screen at once. This option is located in the main menu under Config -> Video.
(Changing this option may require an emulator restart if the colors get messed up, but it will save this setting.)
Those who say that "[this movie] doesn't belong on this site" can go read WhyAndHow again.
A movie is entertaining when it is:
* Interesting (not slow, boring, or repetitive)
* Surprising (does the unexpected)
* Skillful (handles awkward situations efficiently and creatively)
and
our main goal is to create movies that are beautiful to watch.
In my opinion, this site needs more movies like this. This is the ideal.
However, such movies pose a judging problem. Movies that compete for speed
are easy to compare; just a scalar number against a scalar number.
But play-around movies like this; if you receive a couple of them, what should you
do? How can you judge them and decide which ones to keep and which ones to discard?
This is all politics, and that's where this submission is stuck at.
Does it honestly deserve the place it's aiming at?
Even the voting feedback does not make the decision all that clear.
We have to remember all the kind of bias that exists in the votes.
(Indeed, judging is not a democratic process;
the votes are there just to give an idea of audience reception.)
I am accepting this movie on the following grounds:
The votes have been positive for the most part.
The movie is consistent with the message of this site…
I think you misunderstand. The point is not that the run was unentertaining or in and of itself without merit. Simply that without clearly defined objectives, it would be quite impossible to produce a 'better' run which would obsolete this one, should it be published.
First of all, it really amuses me when people start basing their arguments off something that hasn't been created yet, and with a certain possibility won't be at all, at least in the foreseeable future. Why did you let other entertainment-oriented movies such as MK2 (in its nth iteration already) slip then? They don't have "clear" goals except "complete the game" as well. In fact, MK2 movies have pretty much exactly same goals as this one here: to be entertaining at the cost of time, and to show off most quirks and maneuvers the game has to offer — at the author's discretion.
Posing the publication of this movie as a problem that compromises the site's goals is taking it way more seriously than you should (especially since entertainment and art is site's primary proposed goals). "This belongs here, and this doesn't" is an opinion, not a fact. If BoltR thinks this will open floodgates to people submitting playaround shit, then I'll welcome them to create something even a half as entertaining and well-made as this movie here — and that's coming from a person who first learned what this game was by watching Sleepz's run.
Also, asking adelikat questions like these:
BoltR wrote:
How many versions of each game do you want on the site? How many versions of 'play around' runs per game do you want?
…is kind of strange since he always was a person who kinda wasn't fond of too large a number of movies per game, and it's even kinda rare that he not only found a game he would be satisfied with having a playaround for, but also participate in making it himself.
Also, if you track the history of RCR runs, you might notice that the current published run, while much faster than the previous, has much lower entertainment rating.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player
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Location: Tennessee
moozooh wrote:
Also, asking adelikat questions like these:
BoltR wrote:
How many versions of each game do you want on the site? How many versions of 'play around' runs per game do you want?
…is kind of strange since he always was a person who kinda wasn't fond of too large a number of movies per game, and it's even kinda rare that he not only found a game he would be satisfied with having a playaround for, but also participate in making it himself.
Seriously.
I have 25 currently published movies on TASvideos. The number of speed/entertainment tradeoffs in them: 0
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player
(3575)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
Re: Boltr
You example is rather bad. Genisto has working on a playaround for smb3. Its goals were about as clear as ours. Unfortunately he never finished but most people were very enthusiastic about this potential publication.
Also we have the SNES mortal combat movie and 2 street fighter movies that are also of a playaround and/or non-speed category. Gradius is another good example. While it aims for fastest time that is by no means the point of the movie. It wouldn't just be osboleted by a faster movie.
Did these movies destroy the concept of the site in your eyes?
This site has always been about these types of movies as well. It is a place to what kind of possibilities can demonstrated with tool assistance.
This movie has a place on TASvideos because it shows things that can be done with tool assistance that don't have an opportunity to be explored in a movie that aims for fastest time or other time-based goals.
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
moozooh wrote:
Also, if you track the history of RCR runs, you might notice that the current published run, while much faster than the previous, has much lower entertainment rating.
This is not an entirely accurate way of evaluating a prior movie's (true) entertainment. Due to Sleepz movie being "recommended", it probably attracted more "casual" voters than the typical run. And because it went unobsoleted for three and a half years, it managed to accumulate more casual high entertainment votes. I'm not saying that Sleepz run was better or worse. I personally have no opinion on which movie is better, due to this game not entertaining me much no matter who authors the run. However, the statistics on this site are far from unbiased and scientific representations of the "actual" values for entertainment and technical prowess.
adelikat wrote:
... a place on TASvideos because it shows things that can be done with tool assistance that don't have an opportunity to be explored in a movie that aims for fastest time or other time-based goals.
This is exactly what makes the Mortal Kombat and Killer Instinct runs belong on this site (I can't vouch for SF, haven't watched them as much). And roughly 75% of the voters seem to agree. I don't share the same view (as much), but I think that 3/4 of the audience finding this entertaining is enough to warrant a publication. I don't think this run will bring the death of this site due to people just submitting playarounds (although it may increase some), however I also believe that this site has members who are smart enough to judge a good playaround from a bad playaround. And I will continue to believe this until I'm proven wrong (along with believing this should be published despite not finding it very entertaining).
I never cared for RCR runs too much, but I think this one is more entertaining than the others.
Some of the antics I loved, and some I disliked, but overall, my disposition towards this movie is positive.
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
moozooh wrote:
Entertainment can't be unbiased, and shouldn't be in the first place. It shows exactly what it shows: people's opinions.
Individual entertainment can't be unbiased, but the collection of scores can. Suppose you give 100 Sylvester Stallone fans the movies "Rocky" and "Cliffhanger" to watch. They may very well rate them nearly the same due to being Stallone fans. Give those same two movies to a neutral crowd, and they will likely have more discerning tastes (ie more will think a "classic" like Rocky is more entertaining than Cliffhanger).
A similar phenomenon probably occurred with Sleepz movie due to it being starred. More casual viewers, who are more naive to the methods of TASing, saw his movie, thought "Wow, that guy kicked that games ass! I'm totally entertained!" (ie the initial wow factor of any TAS), and voted highly. More discerning members who have more experience, may have also been as entertained, but because they understand the techniques better. This leads to a more accurate rating of what it is that's entertaining them (ie entertaining antics of the character vs the idea of a TAS in general).
And yes, Stallone is a weird reference, but you get the point. And Cliffhanger was a pretty horrible movie
I don't really believe that a sum of biased entities will give you an unbiased one as a result, at least certainly not on this scale. In fact, you might be able to use the gathered "unbiased" statistics to argue which of the two Stallone movies is better (which would be rather pointless, if not plain stupid; then again, you could say Cliffhanger was awful without gathering any statistics in order to make a point), but if you want people to say which of them they were more entertained by, you don't need any unbiased factors, nor will they help improving the statistics much. More so, for those people who don't really care about RCR and its runs, having either run on the site will be more ok with them than for people who care not having one they like more. I'm not saying we should purposefully cater to fans, but we could at least not ignore the possibility to publish a more potentially entertaining movie at hand.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
The other problem is, the question asks "Were you entertained by this movie" Not: "Were you MORE entertained by this movie than the published one?"
If you are entertained by every movie, kinda loses any ability to compare.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
moozooh wrote:
we could at least not ignore the possibility to publish a more potentially entertaining movie at hand.
Certainly so. And I think one of the main differences with this game is that some people see the fastest run more entertaining, some see this "multi aspect" run more entertaining. This type of disagreement has not been seen with the previous movies published under "entertainment" runs, due to their nature (fighting games would simply do the same combo over and over again for a fastest completion time, Tecmo Super Bowl would kick one field goal and then run out the clock). And while publishing this movie might open up the possibility of other controversial submissions (playaround SM64, Super Metroid, Ocarina of Time), I don't necessarily think this would be a bad thing. As tossed around in this thread, this may be a stepping stone to an effort to better organize TASvideos into different categories depending on the goals of the authors.
And while publishing this movie might open up the possibility of other controversial submissions (playaround SM64, Super Metroid, Ocarina of Time), I don't necessarily think this would be a bad thing. As tossed around in this thread, this may be a stepping stone to an effort to better organize TASvideos into different categories depending on the goals of the authors.
I am completely for this. Playaround movies are, to me, more fun to watch.
But we all know how I am! durpdikhgadsblkhlkh
for pure entertainment I LOVED this. The end fight got a little old with the graphical glitches (but I love how much you broke the game), but the final hit was beautiful... I haven't seen the computer beat itself so perfectly in a long time. Voted YES
Samus taught us that a girl doesn't need brains to be successful. Brains are giant, evil, and vulnerable to missiles.
Voted no.
I didn't see what was so entertaining about the run. Stuff like following the girls, disappearing from the screen, and opening random doors without going inside them just looks like you're stalling time.
The few entertaining moments (dodging Thor's attacks, riding the wheels, and the severe glitchiness at the end), I thought dragged on too long. Seeing the game glitch out once was unique and interesting, but seeing it happen at least 5 times in a row without much variation was boring.
Also, does this TAS really fall under a well-defined category?
First of all, I have to admit I have absolutely no experience with this game. Yes, I'm being a hypocrite, but I guess this is important enough to make an exception for.
I vote "no", because the movie was basically a snore-fest to me. I liked the baseball part and jumping over the huge holes, but from what I read, I was expecting actual comedic value of some sort. Turns out there was very little for my sense of humor.
Doesn't seem site worthy to me, for lack of entertainment and probably goals too. Just joking around with no set purpose doesn't work for me. :/
I have not played the game, so there may be some added value that I don't get, but... I watched this movie, and I was struck with a desire to stop.
I mean, really. Hitting your own teammate can only get you so far. Besides jumping over the pit, the rest of the movie can be summarized as running around and throwing stuff randomly. And no, standing on someone's head while doing that doesn't break the monotony.
I really don't like playaround movies unless they have a clearly defined goal and work towards it relentlessly. Otherwise, it seems pointless and I'd rather just go do the same thing myself.
Voted no.
I found the whole part in the gym pretty funny, and the crazy pit jumps, and most boss fights... the other antics were okay. I mostly love watching games just get their asses kicked quickly but this was, in my opinion, more entertaining than the published movie. I found the graphical glitch pretty funny for at least a few seconds.
I don't know if I'm comfortable with the idea of obsoletion based strictly on entertainment, though... at least not here. Maybe if these entertainment competitions were kept completely distinct from TASes that aim for speed? And I think it would really work better in a more democratic medium than this site (not intended as a negative thing, by the way).
Regardless, my vote's a yes.
I'm sort of excited to see what happens with this.
That's the kind of movie that I always wanted to see on this site!
Thanks alot. you TAS heroes!!!
Now we need to see the Genisto SMB3 glitch run finished!
