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Posted: 11/2/2004 1:39 PM
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VIPer7
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
Woohoo, I finally succeeded the difficult part that made me start this thread 2 1/2 weeks ago!! I reach the trampoline 7 frames faster than Bisquit (although that doesn't help me much because I have to wait afterwards... and this wait is unavoidable, yes :P). In some passages I was so fast that I jump above the screen, because the scrolling is too slow :D I'll update the movie when I have defeated Morton
Posted: 11/2/2004 1:58 PM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Just watched the current movie. Looks good. It hit me though that you grab the 14 points from one of those goals. Woulden't that be avoidable?
Posted: 11/2/2004 2:30 PM
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Bobix
Joined: 11/2/2004
Posts: 5
Location: Vasa, Finland
Highness wrote:
Just watched the current movie. Looks good. It hit me though that you grab the 14 points from one of those goals. Woulden't that be avoidable?
As long as he doesnt go over 99 points from the goals (and gets forced to bonus game) it wont slow him down i think. Finishing with 99 points would actually be pretty cool :)
Posted: 11/2/2004 2:38 PM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Ah. Ok. If it's not slowing him down it's ok I suppose. Would be nice to see him score a 50 as well. Think that gives one up or something like that.
Posted: 11/2/2004 2:51 PM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
I just tried playing from where you entered the first door in donut ghost house (normal exit), and I got to the next door about 5 frames faster than you. I also spin flew up there instead of flying normally.
Posted: 11/2/2004 5:15 PM
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VIPer7
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
ok first of all, here's the new video I had to wait at 2 points, but it's just impossible to get there faster (or maybe Michael can prove me wrong?) The first hit on Morton can't be done faster, no matter when I start jumping and whether I use A or B. The other two hits are in the exact frames when he becomes vincible again. So I think this is the fastest way to defeat him (unless there's a glitch that I don't know) @Highness: Bobix is right, as long as I don't get more than 99 star points, it doesn't slow me down in any way. Maybe getting exactly 99 points would be a nice goal, and maybe I'll also try to get 50 points in one level (although I don't remember that you get a bonus for that? not sure, I'll try that out) @Michael Fried: Okay you've beaten me, but I hope you understand that I'm not going to do that part (and the whole rest...) again (unless somebody tells me how to hex-edit it so that I only need to redo that certain part). I've been posting updates in this thread on a daily basis, after each level I've done; if you now find a small fault 4 days later, sorry but that's just too late. Like I said, I want to finish this run before christmas...
Posted: 11/2/2004 5:23 PM
(Edited: 11/2/2004 5:59 PM)
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
Just before you entered the door to the boss, why didn't you kill the enemy with your cape instead of jumping on him? I haven't tested it, but I think it would be slightly faster. Edit: Btw, in case you didn't know this already, you don't need the red switch palace to get the secret exit in VD1, you can get up there by jumping off of Yoshi, though I'm not sure if that would help you in a speed run because you could also get the secret exit later on after you beat start world special while you're making your way back to castle 4. Edit 2: Here's some SMW trivia that you might find interesting. In Donut Ghost House, the exit that leads to Top Secret Area is actually the normal exit, and the exit that leads to Donut Plains 3 is the secret exit. The way I know this is by using the PAR code 00A70649, which causes you to be taken to the Yoshi bonus stage each time you start a level. Falling off the screen in a Yoshi bonus stage causes you to get the normal exit, and when I did that in Donut Ghost House, it took me to Top Secret Area. Edit 3: Another strange thing about this code is that in Chocolate Island 2, it causes the game to freeze, and that's the only level in the whole game (I think) that freezes with this code. The code also doesn't work in water levels. Edit 4: I just tried the code in Bowser's Castle expecting it to freeze the game, but when I finished the Yoshi bonus stage it just took me back to the map screen with nothing changed.
Posted: 11/2/2004 5:53 PM
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VIPer7
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
If I kill the last enemy with the cape I still can't enter the door before frame 45870 (that's when the screen gets blurry). Jumping gives 200 points instead of 100 and I can jump against the green block, so I chose this route I planned to do VD1 the normal way first anyway, and then do the red switch palace Here's the route I want to take now: - Vanilla Dome right route (inclusive red switch palast) - Cheese Bridge normal, Cookie Mountain, Cheese Bridge secret, Soda Lake - finish the Star Worlds completely (only 3 "unforced" movements needed) - Special World, go back to Yoshi's House - finish all Donut Plains secrets - Vanilla Dome left route, Butter Bridge, castle #4 - whole Forest of Illustions (not yet sure about the ideal route here) - whole Chocolate Island (also not sure about the ideal route here) - Sunken Ghost Ship, Valley of Bowser - at the end Valley Fortress and then enter Bowser's castle through the Back Door I plan to get Yoshi in VD3, so I can finish Cheese Bridge ~ 900 frames faster by getting the wings. I haven't tested it out completely, but I don't think Yoshi will slow me down more than 900 frames in VD4... I think I will then drop him in Cookie Mountain, because he's not really needed for the Cheese Bridge secret exit
Posted: 11/2/2004 6:02 PM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
Does Yoshi even slow you down at all in any of the levels? How fast does Yoshi fly compared to Mario? Btw, maybe it's possible to get to the pipe in DP2 even faster if you have Yoshi for that level. Edit: Oh yeah, about that wait in castle 2, does walljumping work in this game? If it does then you don't need to wait for the platforms to come back to the right. You could also get up there faster if there was some way to magically start spin flying in that tiny little space or if you could somehow get the springboard up there with you, but that doesn't seem very likely, so the walljump is probably your best chance.
Posted: 11/2/2004 6:09 PM
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VIPer7
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
Freeing Yoshi from his egg costs some time, I think at least 10 frames, (plus the time you spend by jumping on him) I don't know about flying, when I tested it, he was slower, but that was before I found out about the ideal way to fly with (->) button... but at least you can't fly up-down-up-down-up-down-etc with him
Posted: 11/2/2004 6:25 PM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
Why does it matter if it takes time? You're gonna have to free him before Cheese Bridge anyway. Unless Yoshi is slower in some levels, then it might be a good idea to get him earlier because since Mario riding Yoshi is taller than just Mario, you can reach the pipe in DP2 earlier after you bounce off the shell.
Posted: 11/2/2004 6:38 PM
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Mazzic
Joined: 8/31/2004
Posts: 298
Location: Falun, Sweden
Michael Fried wrote:
Oh yeah, about that wait in castle 2, does walljumping work in this game?
Wall jumping is possible but you need to sprint when you hit the wall to get it working.
VIPer7 wrote:
Here's the route I want to take now: ... finish the Star Worlds completely...
I hope you are aware that completing the Star World levels via the gate in the end counts as one exit. (If you are going for an 96 exit run, that is)
VIPer7 wrote:
Okay you've beaten me, but I hope you understand that I'm not going to do that part (and the whole rest...) again (unless somebody tells me how to hex-edit it so that I only need to redo that certain part). I've been posting updates in this thread on a daily basis, after each level I've done; if you now find a small fault 4 days later, sorry but that's just too late. Like I said, I want to finish this run before christmas...
So he is human after all :P
Bein' away for like five years, and not a single new post in the ZSNES forum... :'-(
Posted: 11/2/2004 7:26 PM
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VIPer7
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
yes I know I have to do 10 Star Road levels. Here's the exact route: After I finish Soda Lake, I'll automatically be taken to the Star Road on the island (probably the longest world map movement in the game...). So I enter there, and come out at "Star Road North" one necessary movement to Star World 3 (I don't count this as "unforced movement" because I'll have to do that at least once in the game) - Star World 3 secret exit -> "Star Road Northeast" another necessary movement to Star World 4 - Star World 4 secret exit -> "Star Road Southeast" another necessary movement to Star World 5 - Star World 5 normal exit -> "Star Road Southwest" another necessary movement to Star World 1 - Star World 1 secret exit -> "Star Road Northwest" another necessary movement to Star World 2 - Star World 2 secret exit -> "Star Road North" now 3 "unnecessary movements" to Star World 4 - Star World 4 normal exit -> "Star Road Northeast" another necessary movement to Star World 3 - Star World 3 normal exit -> "Star Road North" another necessary movement to Star World 2 - Star World 2 normal exit -> "Star Road Northwest" another necessary movement to Star World 1 - Star World 1 normal exit -> "Star Road Southwest" another necessary movement to Star World 5 - Star World 5 secret exit -> "Star Road Center" Secret World is kinda linear, and the last star then takes me to Yoshi's House. from there it's only 5 movements to Donut Plains 1, which is way faster than going back all the way in Secret World and then exiting through one of the Star Roads! I also only use the "star warp" only 3 times, which also reduces the world map time as much as possible I'll probably do some tests about walljumps and Yoshi-flying later tonight, if I don't have too much alcohole in my blood then ;)
Posted: 11/2/2004 9:13 PM
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Gigafrost
Former player
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 366
Heh, hexeditting comes up again. Unless anybody has a problem with it, I could try and merge two movies together. (I guess one would be almost the latest run and the other would be one that's a couple of seconds after the improved part). No guarantee that it will work, though, but if you want me to quickly give it a shot I could give it a shot. It's currently 3:15pm here, I could work on it in about 4.5-6 hours (but in 8 hours I'll be asleep)...
07-24-2009: 2595 anime DVDs and counting...
Posted: 11/2/2004 11:21 PM
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VIPer7
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
didn't drink too much, so I could still do some testing :) Yoshi: Flying with Yoshi is a lot slower than flying with the cape. Problem: As soon as you let loose of the (->) button, Yoshi slows down drastically, and when he hits the floor he's not running anymore. And he will hit the floor sooner or later, because he can't fly up and down and up and down like Mario with cape. But even when keeping the (->) button pressed all the time and leaving the ground as soon as he hits the floor, it's quite a bit slower than normal flying (the "good" method ;)). So, consequence: I'll only do as little levels with Yoshi as needed. Which would be: - Cheese Bridge (getting Yoshi in Vanilla Dome 3; there I get him at a position where I don't have to interrupt a flight, so this is not too bad; still gotta test how much slower Vanilla Dome 4 is with Yoshi, but I think it'll be less than 900...) - Way Cool (here I get Yoshi in the level and then get the wings soon afterwards. Blue Yoshi might be usefull in Awesome as well) - Valley of Bowser 2 normal (no Yoshi in this level, haven't found out where I can get him, but it'll definately be worth it, because the wings save a huge load of time here!) - Valley of Bowser 4 secret (I get Yoshi in this level too) - Gnarly?? (I think Mario can't fly all the way up in one go, it might be a lot faster if Yoshi eats the blue koopa on the other side and then flies all the way up... I'll do the Star World levels before this, maybe I'll feed one of the baby yoshi's enough enemies) so far these are all "profit-from-Yoshi" levels I can think of Walljump: I tried around a bit, but couldn't produce a walljump, especially with the cape, pressing the A button will only make Mario float (I guess Mazzic you meant that walljump that you did as Super Mario in castle #1?) I must say that I have never played SMB1 so I don't have any experience with the walljump there, maybe someone who's good there (Michael? ;)) can try it out as well Gigafrost that would be very cool if you could tell me how to do they hex-editing stuff. I have done some hex-editing with Need for Speed savegames and replays, but there I only had to edit the ANSI text and not the weird stuff :P I added you on AIM, maybe I'll catch you online sometime (I live 7 hours ahead of you :P)
Posted: 11/3/2004 2:15 AM
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Gigafrost
Former player
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 366
Well, as you could tell by my away message, I was at school. Tuesday\Thursdays are my long days, and today was especially bad since I had an evening exam, but MWF I've only got a morning class and I'm home. I should be easy to reach on those days, I think. While working on my Mega Man 7 run I did attempt to use previous work (either from the first version or redone parts from version 2). I did it all using QBASIC, though. ^.^;; (I'm more used to the QBASIC file handling system than any other language). Anyways, the SNES9X file format isn't too complex (for a 1 controller run, anyways). Just a 197 byte header and 2 bytes per frame. (Well, 197 bytes if the number of frames SNES9X tells you a movie has is the actual number of frames it has). Splicing old movie with a newer redone part can be done like this: Read from the newer redone part till you know you're just past the improved part and are at a spot that you know is in the old part. Then skip over the frame data from that old part until you reach that known part and start copying from the old run. Which of the two headers should you use? I'd say the longer one, but make sure that one has a couple of extra seconds of data just to be safe, I guess. Also, speaking of safety, I made sure I didn't stand to lose anything while doing this by making copies of the files I was going to work with, working with those copies, and having my splicing program create a third program instead of overwritting any of the other two. Now, it works...it gets the keystrokes over...but random factors may make it totally useless. I was able to do the splicing in my Mega Man 7 videos but the random factor in it was...well, too random and every splice (entertainingly) desynced. Here's an example of a failed attempt: http://www.kraftfam.org/~erk/misc/mm7.zip (it includes a save state to jump to Wily Stage 4) In particular, I tried to splice the Freeze Man battle from my first version into the second version. I mean, Freeze Man didn't seem to be all that random, right? Well, you can see the result. So, splicing to try and fix this one small part might not work, but then again it might. Super Mario World doesn't seem like it has too much randomness in it, but who knows. It could be like Freeze Man and suprise me how exactly it is random, hehe.
07-24-2009: 2595 anime DVDs and counting...
Posted: 11/3/2004 3:00 AM
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4matsy
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 498
VIPer7 wrote:
The first hit on Morton can't be done faster, no matter when I start jumping and whether I use A or B. The other two hits are in the exact frames when he becomes vincible again. So I think this is the fastest way to defeat him (unless there's a glitch that I don't know)
Yes, there is. Hit him with two fireballs, then stomp him once. Works on all three of the Koopalings that are vulnerable to fireballs (Morton, Ludwig, and Roy). Dunno if getting said fireballs would be worth the time though...
VIPer7 wrote:
@Highness: Bobix is right, as long as I don't get more than 99 star points, it doesn't slow me down in any way. Maybe getting exactly 99 points would be a nice goal, and maybe I'll also try to get 50 points in one level (although I don't remember that you get a bonus for that? not sure, I'll try that out)
3UP. Looks very cool. :)
Posted: 11/3/2004 3:49 AM
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BillBull
Former player
Joined: 5/22/2004
Posts: 462
I'm liking this movie so far. I am seriously looking forward to its completion; it will be one of the best on the site.
Posted: 11/3/2004 8:58 AM
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Mazzic
Joined: 8/31/2004
Posts: 298
Location: Falun, Sweden
I hope the video de-synced for me but did you run down the edge (without jumping) in Yoshis Island 2? You know, where you throw a shell too kill allot of turtles (so you get 1UP). Are you aware that if you don't jump at the inro-text you gain a few frames? For some rason it slows you down by 3 frames. Nothing serius but anyway, please use the !-block glitch atlest once. Edit: Tried again, somehow you still doesn't seem too jump. I shure hope it's a desync problem...
Bein' away for like five years, and not a single new post in the ZSNES forum... :'-(
Posted: 11/3/2004 10:27 AM
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VIPer7
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
@Mazzic: are you sure you are watching the newest version of my video?? I made the walk-down-the-edge fault in my version 2, but that's like 2 weeks old already :P I didn't know that I lose frames when jumping in the intro text... I used the !-block glitch a few times, for example at the end of Donut Plains 1, when I hit the block with the flower on it. In castle #2 I also produced a little glitch, I jumped with the A-button against a ?-block and then jumped kinda through it @4matsy: you are right, the fireflower saves me about 260 frames in the fight against Morton... so now I really have to try this hexediting stuff and correct Donut Plains 2 (secret and normal), where the Fireflower got "overwritten" with the feather... wish me luck that it works and doesn't affect any randomness later in the game :O first test: failed... was looking good first, but desynched about 10-15 seconds after the part that I had edited :S second test: this really really sucks big time... I changed about 300 frames in the Yoshi's Island 2 (I did that !-block glitch that you like so much Mazzic), afterwards is a long part where Mario is just running, so the movie went on smooth after I had filled in this part into the original movie. I thought it was all successful, but then a few minutes later, in Donut Plains 1, it desynched. I guess this is because there's a small random factor after you've beaten Iggy, sometimes it takes a few frames more or less till you see the small movie scene... Now I'll try if it helps if I cut out or fill in single frames there, if not, I give it up :( third test: *sigh*... I found out that my edited movie was 1 frame faster during the movie scene, so I deleted one 00 byte from there, also changed the header so that the whole movie is 1 frame shorter, but that didn't help, it only desynched even more :( now the question is: Do the whole stuff from Donut Plains 2 upwards again, without collecting feather or mushrooms (then I could also make that part in the ghost house better) ? Maybe it will be possible to copy some stuff with the hex editor, gotta try that out... Or just forget about it and live with the fact that it could have been done at least 250 frames (= ~4 seconds) faster... please post your thoughts, I gotta do some homework now and will either continue or redo my movie tonight (in ~ 6 hours) then
Posted: 11/3/2004 12:22 PM
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pilif
Joined: 6/15/2004
Posts: 104
Location: Zürich / Switzerland
Hello, if you really want to redo the movie, you could also fix those 4 frames in the ghost house, Michael spoke about. I think, I could more than live with those 4 seconds, but if you really have the spirit to do all those levels again, that would be really nice. Actually it's your decision... Philip
Posted: 11/3/2004 3:02 PM
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Mazzic
Joined: 8/31/2004
Posts: 298
Location: Falun, Sweden
VIPer7 wrote:
are you sure you are watching the newest version of my video??
Hehe, I didn't. But now I've watched the newes, great. Aboute the Hex-ed, I can understand if you decide not too redo all you've done, you are human, remeber that (though I'd like you too). You're doing great! Keep it up!
Bein' away for like five years, and not a single new post in the ZSNES forum... :'-(
Posted: 11/3/2004 3:16 PM
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Josh_the_FunkDOC
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
Personally, 4 seconds is pretty big to me. I'd like to see this redone to fix that (along with Ghost House and the other stuff), but if you don't it's understandable. Good luck, Josh.
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Posted: 11/3/2004 3:18 PM
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Mazzic
Joined: 8/31/2004
Posts: 298
Location: Falun, Sweden
We'r talking 4 SECONDS? I thought the matter was 4 frames, geez. Well, then you don't have an option, redo.
Bein' away for like five years, and not a single new post in the ZSNES forum... :'-(
Posted: 11/3/2004 4:03 PM
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Truncated
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (980)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
Arcade TAS of 2023 Sega TASer of 2021 Sega TAS of 2021
It's a measly four frames. Pilif erroneously wrote 4 seconds. It's more like 0.07 seconds. There is no need to redo for that, unless the hexedit works.
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