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Posted: 1/28/2007 3:41 AM
Post subject: Wario Land II
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LSK
Joined: 4/17/2006
Posts: 159
I plan on redoing Wario Land II the next time I have a free week. I can definitely save at least 2 seconds. Would the movie still be weak enough to be rejected?
Posted: 1/28/2007 10:26 AM
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Brushy
Former player
Joined: 11/13/2005
Posts: 1587
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2113 ?
Posted: 1/29/2007 1:47 AM
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LSK
Joined: 4/17/2006
Posts: 159
Erm. http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4723
Posted: 1/29/2007 7:09 PM
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Truncated
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (980)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
Arcade TAS of 2023 Sega TASer of 2021 Sega TAS of 2021
Since improving it 2 seconds doesn't change the reason it got rejected ("The waiting in the beginning is the most obvious thing, but most of the game seems too straightforward. Very few possibilities to do something interesting, or something faster than just running forward."), I think the verdict will not change. You could do it for yourself and all the people who liked and voted Yes for the first movie, of course.
Posted: 1/29/2007 7:11 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Would a "one hundred percent" run be any better, do you think?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 1/30/2007 9:35 PM
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Spoony_Bard
Former player
Joined: 8/17/2004
Posts: 377
A 100 percent run would be complicated. Do-able, but complicated. I went over the specifics in the other Wario Land II post, but basically, you would have to finish the game several times in one movie. There are several branches and several final bosses (and one final time attack level with the 'real' ending after all that). One of the trickiest aspects, and the one that stopped me from working on my run, is getting the coins necessary in each level to do the mini games to get the treasure piece, and map piece. I found the quickest way to do that would be to causes a 'glowing' coin to spawn, which gives you 100 coins when you snag one. The problem I faced was forcing one to spawn, I just couldn't figure out the pattern to it, and couldn't get one to appear at will. Since running around levels getting coins in every level would add a LOT of time onto the run, glowing coin spawning is really the most feasible way to get the cash necessary, but since I couldn't get them to spawn when I wanted to, I stopped the run. If anyone can figure this out, then that'll make the run very, very do-able. All that you'd need to do then is figure out which order to do all the levels. You cannot get access to a level select until you finish the game once. Considering that going to the map screen and selecting a level takes time, it would be wise to do the longest route first, so you get as many levels as possible done without having a map screen inbetween them. The other issue is the endings. Watching the credits each time you finish the game would get very, very repetitive. I believe the best way to avoid this would be to soft reset the game as soon as the data is saved (right before the credits sequence) as to avoid watching Wario run home every time. Then when you finish the FINAL level ( the extra time attack stage ) you'll see one final credits sequence, and the video should let THAT one run. On the other hand, the credits sequence varies a little each time, and since it's a 100 percent run, and not a quick-as-possible run, perhaps they could be left in anyway? Up to the discretion of the runner, I suppose. Anyways, that's my bit of advice to anyone who takes up a 100 percent Wario Land II run. It's a good game. The first secret chapter, though the quickest, isn't the best set of stages to judge a run on.
Posted: 3/14/2007 6:10 PM
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Rridgway
Joined: 2/13/2007
Posts: 448
Location: Calgary, Alberta
This movie looks like it has some potential. Could be interesting.
Renting this space for rent. Trying to fix image on this site. Please cut slack. As of April 6th, 2012: After a long absence, here we go again?
Posted: 8/26/2007 8:58 PM
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Soulrivers
Former player
Joined: 12/27/2006
Posts: 532
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1765347956/Wario%20Land%20II%20%28U%29%20%5BC%5D%5B%21%5D.vbm WIP of the first level, 240 frames ahead. Also I discovered the last boss can be hit three times in one round, chopping off at least 10 seconds. Would anyone want to see this, even though as Truncated says, the begnning is quite boring?
My published movies [03:45:05] <Naohiro19> Soulrivers: ... [03:45:19] <Soulrivers> ? [03:46:35] <Naohiro19> <Soulrivers> No! <Naohiro19> So? <Soulrivers> Yes! [03:46:48] <Naohiro19> joke
Posted: 8/27/2007 5:12 AM
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josh_l.
Player (102)
Joined: 3/25/2004
Posts: 189
Location: Austin
I didn't even know this was rejected. That has to be the lamest reason in the world to reject a movie. You may as well reject Mario 64 or any game with a non-skippable intro. Anyway, if you finished your run, I would watch it, Soulrivers. Though I'd use the Japanese ROM, since it isn't censored. =)
http://girlyyy.com/ The El Viento TAS is the only decent thing I submitted here.
Posted: 8/29/2007 4:51 PM
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Random
Joined: 6/10/2007
Posts: 12
A more interesting speedrun can be the main plot, rather than secret levels. Also, the giant snake can be defeated almost instantly which is fun to watch...
Why is my name "Random"? ...because it is my real name.
Posted: 8/29/2007 8:48 PM
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Soulrivers
Former player
Joined: 12/27/2006
Posts: 532
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/331929571/Wario%20Land%20II%20%28U%29%20%5BC%5D%5B%21%5D.vbm New WIP finishing level 2, currently 952 frames ahead (15,8 sec). No offence to LSK, but I'm quite surprised by the sub-optimization of the rejected movie. Basically all input was turboed through and techniques weren't at all used to their fullest extent. And I still have that 10 sec timesaver at the last boss.
Random wrote:
A more interesting speedrun can be the main plot, rather than secret levels. Also, the giant snake can be defeated almost instantly which is fun to watch...
I'm not so sure a full run would be enjoyable. It'd drag out on the time quite a lot, and well... Level design is in my opinion not this game's strongest point of interest. Such a run would be quite dull and repetive.
My published movies [03:45:05] <Naohiro19> Soulrivers: ... [03:45:19] <Soulrivers> ? [03:46:35] <Naohiro19> <Soulrivers> No! <Naohiro19> So? <Soulrivers> Yes! [03:46:48] <Naohiro19> joke
Posted: 9/15/2007 10:10 PM
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Rridgway
Joined: 2/13/2007
Posts: 448
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Would this help in any way?
Renting this space for rent. Trying to fix image on this site. Please cut slack. As of April 6th, 2012: After a long absence, here we go again?
Posted: 9/20/2007 12:48 PM
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mike89
Active player (304)
Joined: 8/8/2005
Posts: 296
Location: NSW, Australia
I think I'm going to take the 100% run on. Spoony_Bard pretty much mentioned everything I was going to, but it would be handy to know if anyone has worked out how to get a shiny coin other than from a giant spear man. The first secret level (To the castle!) is particularly nasty, as the treasure room is pretty early in the piece and the level is particularly stingy with coins. I had more luck with the "true" first level, getting pretty much up to 50 just as I reached the treasure room, but I felt aesthetically it would make more sense to clear the secret chapters as they came along (which I'm now reconsidering as I remembered there is a secret chapter which does not produce an ending. >_>) In any case, I hope my motivation to complete this run holds up, because it should look pretty impressive when it's over and done with.
Posted: 8/22/2008 4:51 AM
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mike89
Active player (304)
Joined: 8/8/2005
Posts: 296
Location: NSW, Australia
It seems demand for a 100% run is still pretty high, so what I've done is undertaken a bit of an experiment. I played through the first chapter in real time in an attempt to find out exactly what causes 100-coins to appear. Of course I have no expertise with memory watching myself, so would it be possible to enlist someone who does to solve the mystery? I've uploaded the file here - it gets three 100-coins, one in story 1, 3 and 4. (Which, incidentally, is a higher ratio than I've ever seen - I expected to play most of the main story to get that many of them.)
Posted: 9/9/2008 10:42 AM
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mike89
Active player (304)
Joined: 8/8/2005
Posts: 296
Location: NSW, Australia
Now this is how WL2 was meant to be played.
Posted: 9/9/2008 11:15 AM
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SwordlessLink
Experienced player (534)
Joined: 1/12/2007
Posts: 682
Gameboy TAS of 2010 TAS of 2007 N64 TAS of 2007
That was awesome. I hope you finish this run. In Wario Land 3, I found that it's possible to hit the stoves without getting knocked back. To do it, just punch them, but turn away the first frame after he hits it. This cancels the knock back animation. If that's possible in WL2, it should be useful to you.
Posted: 9/9/2008 11:28 AM
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ElectroSpecter
Player (246)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
mike89 wrote:
Now this is how WL2 was meant to be played.
I especially liked when you got the two silver coins! I would definitely be interested in seeing a 100% run. Is there any point to your Total Treasure score seen at the end of the level? I don't recall.
My Backloggery
Posted: 9/10/2008 3:01 AM
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mike89
Active player (304)
Joined: 8/8/2005
Posts: 296
Location: NSW, Australia
Found a glaring mistake in 1-3 (Let the water out!), fixed it, saved about three seconds. It'll be in the next WIP.
Posted: 9/22/2008 1:25 AM
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mike89
Active player (304)
Joined: 8/8/2005
Posts: 296
Location: NSW, Australia
Chapter 2 done! However I have a serious question. Is it even worth me continuing? My secret chapter run has an entertainment rating of 4, and it only lasted eight minutes. If we're honest with ourselves this is going to be towards the two hour mark, and on that basis I can't see people watching the whole run given that the same techniques will be used. What do you guys think?
Posted: 9/22/2008 2:09 AM
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SwordlessLink
Experienced player (534)
Joined: 1/12/2007
Posts: 682
Gameboy TAS of 2010 TAS of 2007 N64 TAS of 2007
Well, I am certainly enjoying this run so far. That was an awesome WIP. However, I can see how a lot of people wouldn't find this very entertaining, what with the constant treasure and panel piece games. I think you should drop this for now, and work on a run which goes through the intended 25 levels. Fortunately, much of what you've already done could be hexed into a run like that. Out of the 3 possible runs for this game, that would probably be the most fun to watch for the largest number of people.
Posted: 9/25/2008 9:05 AM
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Xkeeper
Banned User
Joined: 12/23/2004
Posts: 1850
mike89 wrote:
My secret chapter run has an entertainment rating of 4, and it only lasted eight minutes. If we're honest with ourselves this is going to be towards the two hour mark, and on that basis I can't see people watching the whole run given that the same techniques will be used. What do you guys think?
I honestly think that might've been hurt a lot by the long, long delay in the beginning. I'd definitely be interested in seeing it, if nothing else... So do continue working on it, at least for us :P
Perma-banned
Posted: 11/6/2008 2:28 PM
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mike89
Active player (304)
Joined: 8/8/2005
Posts: 296
Location: NSW, Australia
For those of you who have waited for a continuation... that's right, both of you... Here it is! It only goes through 3-4 because I haven't yet built up the patience to take on the third boss, which, for the uninitiated, is basically a giant bee. And it drops (making itself vulnerable) from the air at random times. And so do its accomplices. It's not a very fun fight. This level also requires a silver coin, and in general I just don't feel like taking on this level for a little while yet.
Posted: 11/6/2008 2:55 PM
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SwordlessLink
Experienced player (534)
Joined: 1/12/2007
Posts: 682
Gameboy TAS of 2010 TAS of 2007 N64 TAS of 2007
Very nice. The strategy at the end of 3-3 was very creative. I know 3-5 sucks. I remember haven't a lot of trouble finding the treasure room in that when I was playing through this game. ;-)
Posted: 11/8/2008 4:40 PM
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DRybes
Joined: 1/17/2008
Posts: 133
Certain enemies are more likely to drop 100-coin coins. I've gotten 3 or 4 to spawn on a single level before. I think it might have to do with the type of enemy as well as how much immediate peril wario is in, like position of other enemies near him. This is all from console playing so yeah... I dunno what else to tell you. For what it's worth, I have the regular GB and not the GBC version, so there might be a difference if they noticed the GB version was particularly lax about spawning such coins (although I doubt it). Other than in world 1 or the early, easy levels, I typically encounter about one per stage in a normal playthrough. What do you need coins for, anyway? You can guess the number correctly at the end of a level every single time in a TAS, and the in-stage minigame only costs 50 coins on Hard (which is also the fastest incarnation of the game of course). It's piss easy to get 50 coins on most stages before reaching the bonus. Also, I would love a 100% run. Specifically, it could start on the regular 25 stage path, then do all the side stages in order. I also think use of the reset button or ABStartSelect or something lets you avoid all the mandatory cutscenes at the end of sidequests, because the game still saves the file to the cartridge memory... however you have to configure the emu to reproduce that effect. Definitely not a bad idea to work on a normal 25 stage run first, though, if only as practice. I love this game. The highlight of a 100% run would be that final time attack stage, which is rather difficult to play in realtime.
Posted: 11/8/2008 7:18 PM
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Greenalink
Player (62)
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
There is only 1 notable bug that was fixed on the GBC version. It is the Factory Story, Level 4(the one with the owl). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6DS1LkTEiE I've posted a comment saying about entering an "off camera" door that leads to the title screen.
greenalink.blogspot.com
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