DarkKobold, you can create a google webpage, there's 100megs of storage there.
in the first battle of chapter 6, I didn't see what you gave to max, but if it's a ring, isn't it faster to equip him just before a battle ?
Wouldn't it be faster to exchange item in the menu before the battle, because you seems to stay still and lose turn.
Actually, I've only tested this in real-time, but the menus are really obnoxious, because it has to bring up a text box "Who's item do you want to give" and then display the character portrait, and the characters items. Finally, you select the item, and it says "Who do you want to give the _ _ _ _ _ _ ring to?" Re-brings up the character menu, which you have to page through, and etc. I've purposely put in the battle order, such as in the 2nd fight of chapter 5, max goes before Amon, to give the ring, so I can avoid the massively long menus outside of battle. Currently, I need to re-do the end of battle 18, so I can avoid having to bring up the menu.
Honestly though, I haven't compared how many frames it is exactly to transfer an item in battle vs. in a town. I have only assumed many more.
ZeXr0 wrote:
Also wouldn't it be fast to group people together and move them ? I don't know how faster is the cursor, but it might be faster to move the group toward the battle.
I think it may be diminishing returns to continue to move the Knights towards the battle, since they essentially get completely stopped by the woods. Moving Gort takes a few extra frames than the cursor. However when you add the 3 times it takes to move the cursor to him, it may make it faster by a few frames.
I really should test this.... doh.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Question about the battle with Khris. Do you really need to move him to where he ends up before the bat reaches and kills him?
I figure that he could move one less step to the right so the bat won't need to move as far to reach him, or if the bat must end in that spot when dealing the finishing blow, you could just take two steps less than you did in the WIP.
So you are saying that each character has a target set of stats for each level, and the actual stats may never be more than a certain variance away from the target stats.
Does this mean that it ultimately makes no difference at what level you promote? That a character promoted closer to level 20 will subsequently get smaller gains because his post-promotion level 1 stats are higher?
Incidentally this would contradict all the faqs, which say you end up with better stats by promoting later. (Gamefaqs writers aren't exactly known for sound methodology and fact checking.)
DarkKobold wrote:
Alright, the level up code is done, and it isn't a pretty situation.
So, here is the Beef.
Your current statistics? They have ZERO bearing on the next level's statistics. The game has a set value for each level. When the RNG kicks in, it doesn't care what the current stat is, only what it should be. Additionally, it can only vary by +/- N, where N = Stat/4 for Stat/4 <5> 5; Therefore, when Max's attack is only meant to be 14, the most it can be off from the set value is 3!!!
Do you still have your old run? Do you happen to know if magic damage can critical?
Of course I have. I spent so much time with my favourite game so wouldn't it be waste to lose the file :D
But because it's so awful compared to yours I won't show it, instead I checked up to 2ch last battle to see Anri perform a deadly attack with blaze lvl1. It did only 10dmg compared to normal 7-8, so I don't know if magical DA is nearly as effective as deadly melee attack.
I haven't watched your update but now I'm going to have good time with it :) thanksagain!
DarkKobold wrote:
Moving Gort takes a few extra frames than the cursor. However when you add the 3 times it takes to move the cursor to him, it may make it faster by a few frames.
I really should test this.... doh.
I suppose it's worth moving Gort two blocks towards battle.
So you are saying that each character has a target set of stats for each level, and the actual stats may never be more than a certain variance away from the target stats.
Does this mean that it ultimately makes no difference at what level you promote? That a character promoted closer to level 20 will subsequently get smaller gains because his post-promotion level 1 stats are higher?
Incidentally this would contradict all the faqs, which say you end up with better stats by promoting later. (Gamefaqs writers aren't exactly known for sound methodology and fact checking.)
Actually, they are correct, but no one has a true understanding as to the why. Funny enough, I just finished this part of the code. So, post promotion, 2 things effect your stats. The first being the fixed statistics table for post promotion, levels 1 - 20. This is added to a value from the first table, which is 85% of the actual value.
So, still, statistics are fixed.
You get 85% of your level's FIXED statistics pre-promotion, and then the additional "promotion bonus table"
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Actually, they are correct, but no one has a true understanding as to the why. Funny enough, I just finished this part of the code. So, post promotion, 2 things effect your stats. The first being the fixed statistics table for post promotion, levels 1 - 20. This is added to a value from the first table, which is 85% of the actual value.
So, still, statistics are fixed.
You get 85% of your level's FIXED statistics pre-promotion, and then the additional "promotion bonus table"
Well, that settles that then. It really is better to promote later.
On further investigation I found on the Gfaqs boards one of the threads has this link. The tables show what the stats of each char will be at level 1, just promoted. The stats depend on pre-pro level (10 .. 20), and the author recommends promoting at the blue rows. I think the rightmost column is the critical-hit parameter, which is hidden. And the tables at the bottom show the critical hit stat at levels 10 and 20 for all the chars.
He says it's a secret but I suspect how he got this info was simply by poking a given level for each promotable char, then promoting and writing down the results.
So we end up with something like
Pre promotion:
stats = pre(currentlevel) * variance
Post promotion:
stats = pre(promotedlevel) * 0.85 + post(currentlevel) * variance
where pre() and post() are functions that spit out fixed numbers and depend on the char and the level, and variance is + or - stat/N
Allright, since this is TAS the characters are not going to get high levels.
So wouldn't it be better to promote them
...when they still can do enough damage just after promotion,
...because the stat boosts seem to be much higher after promotion compared to 10+ non-promotion levels.
Lets say your character would be at lvl16 (promoted at 10) in last battle, so wouldn't he have (a lot)higher stats than lvl12 (promoted at 14)
Because you say the stats are fixed, could the level-ups be manipulated in a way where you get one or more stats maxed at a time. And if you could get defense/hp/mp gains as rarely as possible. Gort got +6 in defense stat in Kane battle, so perhaps you are doing it that way?
DarkKobold, can the Durahan be killed faster than those two other enemies before you enter Dragonia (Kane's town)? That would also end the battle, if you didn't know.
Do you try to sink Kane with one swing? Have you checked if it's even possible(max attack w/ Blbr and Pelle). Btw, where are the two other power potions after 1st chapter? Can't remember even I have played so many times... :/
After the run is complete we see if Legs of Haste or Mobility ring would have been needed. Impossible to say yet, right.
DarkKobold, can the Durahan be killed faster than those two other enemies before you enter Dragonia (Kane's town)? That would also end the battle, if you didn't know.
Are you !@#!%ing kidding me? That changes the entire battle, if it is true!!!!! EDIT: It does work. Damnit. Thank you, that is an amazing find.
Uh.... yeah, that would be beyond monumentally fast. I will check that later tonight.
maTO wrote:
Do you try to sink Kane with one swing? Have you checked if it's even possible(max attack w/ Blbr and Pelle). Btw, where are the two other power potions after 1st chapter? Can't remember even I have played so many times... :/
After the run is complete we see if Legs of Haste or Mobility ring would have been needed. Impossible to say yet, right.
Actually, the mobility ring has been used for every single battle since it was obtained. It shortens chapter 5 battle 2 by an entire round. It's quick, but Amon gets it from max, and equips it right away.
The Legs of Haste, I don't want to even THINK about. Here is essentially why:
If a battle has, say, 20 enemies, there are 2.4*10^18 different possible orders. However, the randomization function can only produce 65535 different battle orders. This randomization is biased by the agility of every person in battle. Therefore, a battle order that would be most beneficial for speed may exist with 1 characters agility, may completely disappear if that characters agility changes. Additionally, while a change in agility might speed up one battle, it may cause massive lag in another battle 2 chapters apart. thus, agility is probably the single most important statistic (aside from a character's fixed move).
To really maximize the speed of this run, a person would need to do each battle for each different set of possible character's agility, record the results, and pick the sequence that was the fastest. Additionally, speed can change in a battle, sometimes by massive amounts, adding a retarded level of complexity.
Also remember, each battle takes 2-5 hours to do, so it would take literally YEARS to absolutely perfect this run.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Are you !@#!%ing kidding me? That changes the entire battle, if it is true!!!!! EDIT: It does work. Damnit. Thank you, that is an amazing find.
Well, I did it in my lousy TAS. So there was something good in that afterall :)
That is why I want to see it!
maTO wrote:
DarkKobold wrote:
The Legs of Haste, I don't want to even THINK about. Here is essentially why:
My bad, I meant Turbo pepper which increases movement.
I haven't passed the turbo pepper yet. It is in Chapter 7. It is a must have.
The biggest problem will be determining who gets it.
maTO wrote:
DarkKobold wrote:
Also remember, each battle takes 2-5 hours to do, so it would take literally YEARS to absolutely perfect this run.
Nah, I feel you can do it right away :p
Not perfect. I'll get it done, then release my tools. Since this game is soooo easy to manipulate, I wouldn't be surprised to see a competition to make it the fastest.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Little do you know, that made one of the hardest decisions I had to make much much much much.... uh.... much easier.
The skeleton before Runefaust can be defeated to end the battle? That is monumental to my run. You have no idea ;)
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Little do you know, that made one of the hardest decisions I had to make much much much much.... uh.... much easier.
What decision? Tell me MOAR buddy. (Do you mean not killing Bleu?)
And gmv:s even after one battle advancement could make our days nicer. I've begun to wait these already as much as Claymore subs.
Little do you know, that made one of the hardest decisions I had to make much much much much.... uh.... much easier.
What decision? Tell me MOAR buddy. (Do you mean not killing Bleu?)
And gmv:s even after one battle advancement could make our days nicer. I've begun to wait these already as much as Claymore subs.
There really hasn't been much progress. I've now redone the to Dragonia battle and the Kane-Cain Battle. Your technique saved an entire 67 seconds off my second attempt at to Dragonia. Somehow, I also managed to shave another entire minute off killing Kane. He now dies at 1:28, as oppose to 1:30, which I guess is kinda cool.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/697013469/Shining%20Force%20%28U%29%20%5B%21%5D.gmv
Oh, and the big question is who gets the turbo pepper. I thought that the way to approach the "to Runefaust" battle was to give max the turbo pepper and the mobility ring, and make a mad dash for the gate. This would be slow, since his move would only be 10, and hindered by trees.
Giving the turbo pepper to a flyer now means that I can have a move of 11, unhindered by anything.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Oh, and the reason for lack of progress is that I am absolutely DREADING battle 20. If you watched the last one, I ended up taking 3 attacks, and the high priest went running away :(
It is a retardedly hard battle to optimize, and no monster dying ends the battle.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Oh, and the reason for lack of progress is that I am absolutely DREADING battle 20. If you watched the last one, I ended up taking 3 attacks, and the high priest went running away :(
It is a retardedly hard battle to optimize, and no monster dying ends the battle.
Well, maybe battles 20 and 22 are toughest but there others should be much easier . It's a kind of downhill after those :)
The game is now more than 2/3rds over. I estimate the final video will be just under 2.5 hours. Ugh. I'd hoped for much less.
A new trick was learned for these battles. It should be obvious.
Oh, an interesting note: Magic can do half criticals and full criticals. The first seems to be set by the spell, the second is based on the character's critical rate.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1958513384/Shining%20Force%20%28U%29%20%5B%21%5D.gmv.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Oh, an interesting note: Magic can do half criticals and full criticals. The first seems to be set by the spell, the second is based on the character's critical rate.
Very nice! *with Borat's voice*
Now do you intend to get that Black/Evil Ring on the left side of Mishaela's altar? That could speed up battles where enemies are close each other, like Ramladu's Second.
Using Halberd was not quite a new trick (It's fun to see it though), but did you just start manipulating level ups since I saw only important gains (attack and speed)?
It seems Light Blade can't be used in this run, since Max is so slow, but can it be given to Bleu and use it for Bolt 2?
Oh, an interesting note: Magic can do half criticals and full criticals. The first seems to be set by the spell, the second is based on the character's critical rate.
Very nice! *with Borat's voice*
Now do you intend to get that Black/Evil Ring on the left side of Mishaela's altar? That could speed up battles where enemies are close each other, like Ramladu's Second.
Using Halberd was not quite a new trick (It's fun to see it though), but did you just start manipulating level ups since I saw only important gains (attack and speed)?
It seems Light Blade can't be used in this run, since Max is so slow, but can it be given to Bleu and use it for Bolt 2?
The halberd use was actually a new trick, because I had to manipulate half-criticals to kill the Gargoyles. The spell only does about 11-13 damage normally.
Level-ups have been manipulated for a while..... :(
A character can not "use" any item he can't equip. Therefore, I've had to make some planning changes in the run. (Amon can't equip the evil ring)
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
