Joined: 6/9/2006
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yeah its not good for a tas i guessed myself, but its still funny to know :D
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Even though I hadn't finished my reallife work yet, I decided to whip up a short WIP yesterday, granted is was already underway by that moment (I was near the end of the diagonal room). It's only about 99 seconds long, but it shows one of the highlights of the run and some usual crazy optimization stuff. :) Enjoy: WIP #2: Bombs → Super Missiles. So far it's ~21.1 sec faster than JXQ's 100% run and ~22.2 sec faster than Hero's any% v1 by the ingame timer. Moments that might be interesting and other comments: • I redid Torizo room door entry, hence why it is included in the WIP; • 400—1000: guess what. :P Exit can be improved by 5 frames (Hero found a somewhat better strategy that helps in the next room); • 2200—2400: quite probably the most optimal way to refill now that there's no refill-happy Torizo fight. For the record, I tried to kill both wavers with one missile and succeeded, but it was about half a second slower than the current method; • 4800—4900: this door makes me feel a warm fuzziness of flawless accomplishment. The last shot was dopplered, I got absolutely perfect subpixel position (65535), and what's most important, I got to demonstrate my new secret way of increasing and storing acceleration (which will most likely help me set a new record for Ceres escape time when I get around to it); • 5840: I wish I could reach that refill. Unfortunately, I moved too fast so the waver didn't have a chance of getting further to the left before I killed it. Next WIP will likely show my route in Red Brinstar. I haven't decided if it will be the last public WIP yet, though. [EDIT] Alright, while we're at it, I decided to do some more today and continued the run to Red Brinstar. Not much by itself, but makes WIP 2 about as long as WIP 1. Updated WIP: WIP #2.1: Bombs → Red Brinstar. By its end, it's ~22.9 sec faster than Hero's v1. Comparison to JXQ's run is no longer applicable as we have different item set now. Comments: • 6550: Rio is frozen in place allowing for a lower jump. One of those obvious things everyone loves to overlook so much; • 6700—6900: this strategy came from Hero of the day. Even though I might not need this refill until the next etank, I still decided to include it because it's awesome; • 7750—7800: entering mockball at higher speed is slower than optimizing horizontal position in accordance to mockball's momentum variation pattern; • 8500: this shot actually serves a purpose since for some reason I decided to shoot instead of doing an additional pump. I'll likely remove it in the final version. [EDIT2] Link fixed. >_>
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
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Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Everytime I see you skip that miniboss, it gives me the chills! Once again, tremendous accomplishment. See you in 16 years when your run is done :) (kidding)
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
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Heh, actually, I did everything in this WIP in about two nights. It's just that I haven't been working on it for two months, hence the slowdown.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 6/9/2006
Posts: 614
Location: Mettmann
wow nice wip again moozooh :)! why wont you release more wips :(((!!!!! i need them i love them waaah for those asking what iam doing at the moment: iam very f*cking ill since the last weeks and this keeps me to my bed more then anywhere else :/
Player (206)
Joined: 2/18/2005
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Wow, very good job moozooh! Thank you for the update! I especially liked the very quick refill strategy in the diagonal room. Some rooms are direct input copies of mine, although we both never seen them from each other before, which just shows that they must be frame perfect (for which only one input combination will work, and thus it must be a copy, or it will be slower). :-)
moozooh wrote:
4800—4900: this door makes me feel a warm fuzziness of flawless accomplishment. The last shot was dopplered, I got absolutely perfect subpixel position (65535), and what's most important, I got to demonstrate my new secret way of increasing storing acceleration (which will most likely help me set a new record for Ceres escape time when I get around to it);
Congratulations on finally finding the acceleration storage! I have to disappoint you with Ceres though, I already used it there, since 49'15 wouldn't be possible without it anyway. :-( What I'm confused now, didn't hero also discovered it by himself a while ago? At least he showed it in his last WIP, but I wasn't sure if it was intentional or just inadvertantly done. All in all a top quality run so far, and I'm especially surprised you optimized the last rooms in just 2 days. Looking forward for more, keep up the great work! PS: See you better soon, evilchen.
See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun
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Joined: 8/24/2004
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WOW!! Nice WIP mate. Keep it up.
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Highness wrote:
WOW!! Nice WIP mate. Keep it up.
Thanks, kept (see above — WIP is updated).
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 1/11/2007
Posts: 279
Location: Finland, Lieksa
Woah! o_O Those are probably the fastest WIP's I've ever seen. I still think you should stop releasing any more WIP's, you know the more you release them the more people know about your run and the less surprising it's going to be when watching the final run. At least I'm seeing it this way, only a thought. :) The excitement would make people wait the run much more. I personally today used frame advance/2% speed for the first time in my life and got under the first super missile gates without mockball. It was quite nice to watch what I personally did. Some day this year I might start a serious TAS using that frame advance, as this recent semi-TAS of mine at www.youtube.com/TonskiTAS is only played at 24% speed or so. Saturn you said you did an any% run very far and 80-85% of the rooms were frame perfect and then you did the run to the end very badly with hardly many savestates used right? Ummm... Is this test run or so available anywhere? I'd like to see it. :)
<Deign> .dice 1d1999191023443691 <BisqBot> Deign rolls a blackhole and destroys the planet.
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Tonski wrote:
Those are probably the fastest WIP's I've ever seen. I still think you should stop releasing any more WIP's, you know the more you release them the more people know about your run and the less surprising it's going to be when watching the final run. At least I'm seeing it this way, only a thought. :) The excitement would make people wait the run much more.
Thanks. So far they are, indeed, the fastest even I have ever seen. :D And I do plan on stopping the public releases of the test run, but I'm not sure when. The next WIP should already give an idea on what route I am going to take (that is, being a spoiler), but I'm not yet sure how far I am willing to take it. If you have any opinion on that matter, I'm ready to hear it.
Tonski wrote:
I personally today used frame advance/2% speed for the first time in my life and got under the first super missile gates without mockball. It was quite nice to watch what I personally did. Some day this year I might start a serious TAS using that frame advance, as this recent semi-TAS of mine at www.youtube.com/TonskiTAS is only played at 24% speed or so.
Indeed, it's very pleasing to see your own work, especially if it is a yet unrivaled accomplishment. I enjoy watching these WIPs about as much as I enjoyed JXQ's 100% TAS 1.5 years ago, and I'll make sure to do better in v2. It's quite amusing to realize I've already gained 50 seconds over the run I'm improving, and I haven't even reached 4 minute mark yet… It has to be obsoleted, it's too outdated. Btw, Cpadolf is making some good progress at TASing SM. Wanna compete with him?
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
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Joined: 2/18/2005
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Tonski wrote:
Saturn you said you did an any% run very far and 80-85% of the rooms were frame perfect and then you did the run to the end very badly with hardly many savestates used right? Ummm... Is this test run or so available anywhere? I'd like to see it. :)
Not yet. As said at m2k2 already, it would be a large spoiler of my actual run, so for the later surprise' sake, I better let it unpublished until the final submission, which will badly obsolete the final parts I did there relatively sloppy anyway.
See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun
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Joined: 11/14/2005
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This acceleration storage trick, is it the same thing I do in my ceres wip? The shudder step before entering the door? If that is what you guys are talking about, then yes I already knew about it. Anywho, great job moozooh. It looks alot like my current wip :) I am 33 seconds ahead of my old run btw, just about to collect the gravity suit.
They're off to find the hero of the day...
Joined: 1/11/2007
Posts: 279
Location: Finland, Lieksa
moozooh wrote:
And I do plan on stopping the public releases of the test run, but I'm not sure when. The next WIP should already give an idea on what route I am going to take (that is, being a spoiler), but I'm not yet sure how far I am willing to take it. If you have any opinion on that matter, I'm ready to hear it. Btw, Cpadolf is making some good progress at TASing SM. Wanna compete with him?
Yeah, my opinion pretty much is not to reveal too much tricks/route/timesavers about your run as that leaves people more excitement when watching the actual run, and they'll be waiting for it a lot more. You see, when you've seen WIP's covering like 50% of the run you just want to skip it until the run is totally new to you (unless it's something very good) because you've already seen it. CPadolf has always been ultimate godlike in comparison to me. :D I couldn't match him, still I will try some day when I start my run. I'll probably pretty much use the same route he does, aiming for the fastest ingame-time. In other words, I'd have to get 24 min ingame-time to beat his best TAS. Although he didn't succeed in his Phantoon 1 round, I will be trying to. It's all about how much spare time I have on my hands, if I'm too busy I won't bother starting this TAS any time soon, and I'd have to learn frame advance using instead of only 2% speed I've been using. I'd have to learn how to use memory watches too to be able to skip Torizo. I hope you guys will help me out with that stuff. :) Saturn: Okay I see your point. Hero of the day: You should've seen the smile on my face when I read that. :-D 33 seconds over your old run and you're only collecting the Gravity Suit? I think that's a lot considering how early you basically are in the run. I'm still putting my hopes on sub 40 min real-time TAS. :) I know it's possible.
<Deign> .dice 1d1999191023443691 <BisqBot> Deign rolls a blackhole and destroys the planet.
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hero of the day wrote:
This acceleration storage trick, is it the same thing I do in my ceres wip? The shudder step before entering the door? If that is what you guys are talking about, then yes I already knew about it.
The principle is the same, but the application differs somewhat. I use it to store more acceleration than what would have been possible otherwise, while in your Ceres WIP what you do is achievable using conventional means; hence why JXQ's subpixel stats are better in most of the rooms, while they theoretically shouldn't (which makes me believe there's much more to this trick than what you did there).
hero of the day wrote:
Anywho, great job moozooh. It looks alot like my current wip :)
Sure, we use the same route after all. :) Btw, I would like to discuss a couple things regarding it with you, so come online soon.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 1/11/2007
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http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1177388297/Tonski%20-%20Ceres%20Station%20test.smv I did a test on Ceres Station first time ever using frame advance, I must say I'm very disappointed in this one. Could you guys give me some tips and tell what I did wrong?
<Deign> .dice 1d1999191023443691 <BisqBot> Deign rolls a blackhole and destroys the planet.
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http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1177388297/Tonski%20-%20Ceres%20Station%20test.smv My first attempt at doing a tas. Turned out pretty badly for being several hours work. Obvious things wrong: no corner boosting (intentional, I didn't want to overwhelm myself) jumped too early in the second room didn't jump at the end of the second room didn't get the knockback didn't do small walljumps in the last room Ah well, I'll have a better idea of what to do next time.
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The problem with starting out with Super Metroid is that because Samus moves so quickly you need to perform a large number of actions, which all depend upon eachother, in a short span of time. It's very difficult to break things up into segments that you can concentrate on optimizing individually. moozooh, very impressive WIP. Keep it up.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
P.JBoy
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moozooh, I find it hard to believe these are test runs. Especially since you're kicking everyone's ass at TASing this game. This is also something I'm going to have study if I ever try to accomplish the Limit TAS again. Do you think it's worth putting up the acceleration storage trick on the SM tricks page? Tonski, from what I can quickly say:
  • It seems you stand to close to the Ceres doors when you wait for them to open.
  • You should run (without arm-pumping) and then arm-pump when going through the Ceres doors so that you have more momentum when going into the next room.
  • You missed Ridley's tail the on the (should of been) last time you were damaged.
  • You should be slightly nearer the door in Ridley's room, simply to boost your position forward while still taking the same number of frames to enter the next room.
  • You should of luck manipulated the smoke, so that you could of just run up the stairs.
  • The stall at the top of the stairs could of been prevented if you hadn't arm-pumped that frame.
  • Don't get the 1st damage boost and get a better one.
Joined: 1/23/2006
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So, how long until someone finds a way to skip Mother Brain?
Joined: 8/7/2006
Posts: 344
It's already been done. Kejardon showed how to do it a few pages back.
Joined: 1/11/2007
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Location: Finland, Lieksa
Thanks P.JBoy, Vivi57 and moozooh. :) Now that I know what I did wrong I'll probably give it another shot today with memory watcher moozooh gave me link on.
<Deign> .dice 1d1999191023443691 <BisqBot> Deign rolls a blackhole and destroys the planet.
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I should add to you tonski that the best easy way to improve is to (at least i think so) actively monitor your old run trying to improve frames in every room and with the memory watcher it will be easy to see when you improve a frame or more in a room. Doing so myself I came up with this today: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1055332923/CeresWIP.smv I improve the escape by 00:00:16 on the clock and 21 frames in total without to much hassle. I should say though that even though this indeed is a start for a new run I am not going to continue on it yet. I made this part out of curiosity to see how much time i could save compared to my recent run with the method earlier mentioned. Continuing with this method 00:24 should be reachable. Also to be noted is that this time I will do phantoon 1 round by myself or die(=give up) trying as I see no meaning to have yet another run with I part I did not create.
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
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P.JBoy wrote:
moozooh, I find it hard to believe these are test runs.
I call it a test run because I'm not sure that all my strategic choices are/will be correct, and also because I let a couple frames slip in some cases (which I then put up on my improvement page). I'm going to make the full run on Snes9x 1.5 (I've seen Hero's WIP on it… it looks so much more beautiful), and strive for Rockman quality in it.
P.JBoy wrote:
Do you think it's worth putting up the acceleration storage trick on the SM tricks page?
Actually, I've been planning to add a new chapter about manipulating momentum, with a full momentum values table (since they are fixed and bound to the form Samus is traveling in). This trick, along with some others directly related to it, are to go there. I also think about splitting SuperMetroidTricks into two pages, with the second called SuperMetroidTechData (which will contain primarily RAM tables, code snippets, timed events, enemy health, damage values, momentum values and patterns, and other numeric data).
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 1/11/2007
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http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/246355426/Tonski%20-%20Ceres%20Station%20improved.smv I used memory watch with finding the pixel positions where the doors open and improved this in other places too, such as those smoke puffs' manipulation and small optimizations. :) I'm not happy with the last room though, it just looks slower than Hero's any% TAS. I looked some pointers from that TAS as I tried to improve my Ceres. Still any help? How do you like it? Any comments are appreciated.
<Deign> .dice 1d1999191023443691 <BisqBot> Deign rolls a blackhole and destroys the planet.
Joined: 6/9/2006
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i just saw your wip cpadolf and saw my second 10% version is much slower damn :( i tried to get the same framecount in the rooms as you but it fails at every door transition and i dont know why .. iam monitoring this weird memory watch stuff and whatever i do - i keep getting the same framecounts(btw its not only cpadolfs framecounts its all of yours jxq/hero etc. etc.) maybe i just dont know how to enter/pass doors quickly enough or quicker then i do could someone tell me what/why/howto? i really need it because i were able to improve or remove other errors from my first testrun except those doortransitions/joinings/passings(i keep loosing frames everydoor if i compare any wips to mine) hope someone can help me out :) btw: thx saturn iam more up now - not cured but getting better at least