I still think it would be optimal to allow a hacked translation of the hard type version.
I fully agree with this position.
I'm also leaning towards the general direction of accepting hack-translations, at least on case-by-case basis.
<Issue>The issue that called for creating the rule was that translations are updated by the translators, and being a translator myself, I feel that a translator wouldn't like their older version being showcased somewhere when a newer version is available. Because of the sync issue, a movie existing will make it more difficult for the old version to disappear in favor of the new version. And if it does, then nobody can play that movie.</Issue>
I just haven't figured out yet how to diminish that issue.
Well... Has the translation been altered for a good while?
Maby we can be allowed to redistribute the translation so there won't be any conflicts? I mean.. Put the translation on this server perhaps?
Joined: 7/8/2007
Posts: 27
Location: North Carolina, USA
The hacked version that I think would be best to use would be the J2E version of the game, which is mentioned in Wikipedia. The translator's website seems to say that he is finished with the project because it has a *finished* by FFIV. I sent an email to the translator to verify this and ask what he thinks, and to double check that nothing else has been changed between versions. I hope that once I get a reply from him we can clarify all of the issues brought up by using this version.
I must say, that website of theirs (the translators) is the most horrible I've ever seen. It makes YTMND's look good. ^^;;
(Not to mention the download link is screwed up. They put a slash in there backwards which prevents downloading unless you manually change the link.)
Well, for what it's worth, given the existence of official well-translated English versions (on PlayStation, GBA and probably on DS before long) I doubt anyone's going to make any new English Translations of the Japanese SNES version.
Another thing to consider is that the European GBA version (the five-language version) makes some bug-fixes to the game. I'm not sure if the bugs are exploitable or if the fixed versions might even be helpful, though. The Japanese GBA version was reissued with these same fixes, as well.
All that being said, however, I think some variant of the Japanese Super Famicom version would work best, given its higher volume of exploitable bugs:
1) You can skip the Sealed Cave
2) You can exploit leveling in the game using the sentry enemies in the Giant of Babel (The floating eye things). They summon Red Dragons, which give a colossal amount of EXP and can be constantly re-killed. The SDA run features some 20 minutes of grinding. When the battle ends with Cecil as the only survivor, he goes from level 20 to I think 60. The GBA version nerfs this by making the sentries summon something else with a much lower EXP earning. This is of particular importance as you need raw HP to stand a chance against Zeromus, unless there's some way of avoiding Big Bang. The only thing that comes to mind is perfectly-timed Kain jumping, but I don't know how possible that would be.
Joined: 7/8/2007
Posts: 27
Location: North Carolina, USA
After watching the SDA run, which is incredible for a non-tas, and playing around some more with the game itself, I feel that the 3:00 mark is possible for a TAS. Possible ways to get there are 1.) minimize random encounters (which I have no clue how to do) 2.) much better manipulation in battle 3.) less leveling 4.) less shopping 5.) frame precision and other little things I noticed during the run.
This brings me to a question I have: Do you think it would be beneficial to disassemble the game to figure out some big question that I have? (ex: luck manipulation, random encounters, etc) And if so how would I go about doing that or trying to decipher the code. This is way beyond my league in terms of programming knowledge but to me seems important in this type of game.
<Issue>The issue that called for creating the rule was that translations are updated by the translators, and being a translator myself, I feel that a translator wouldn't like their older version being showcased somewhere when a newer version is available. Because of the sync issue, a movie existing will make it more difficult for the old version to disappear in favor of the new version. And if it does, then nobody can play that movie.</Issue>
My two cents: include the patch/patcher with the movie. That way, if the patch is obsoleted, the correct version will always be available for use with the run.
This brings me to a question I have: Do you think it would be beneficial to decompile the game to figure out some big question that I have? (ex: luck manipulation, random encounters, etc) And if so how would I go about doing that or trying to decipher the code. This is way beyond my league in terms of programming knowledge but to me seems important in this type of game.
Read "Can someone with great experience fix this for me please?" :)
My two cents: include the patch/patcher with the movie. That way, if the patch is obsoleted, the correct version will always be available for use with the run.
Sounds like an idea that solves most of the problem. Simple answers are sometimes the best.
In which situations could it be applied? I don't want it to become a loophole for accepting all kinds of "translations" that happen to hack the game in unknown ways.
In which situations could it be applied? I don't want it to become a loophole for accepting all kinds of "translations" that happen to hack the game in unknown ways.
Do it on per-approve basis as is currently done with uhh… everything else here.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
My two cents: include the patch/patcher with the movie. That way, if the patch is obsoleted, the correct version will always be available for use with the run.
Sounds like an idea that solves most of the problem. Simple answers are sometimes the best.
In which situations could it be applied? I don't want it to become a loophole for accepting all kinds of "translations" that happen to hack the game in unknown ways.
Basicly, you or the encoders should have the last word on it... you decide if the game is worthy of having a fan translation and if possible have someone play through the game to see if it's the same (IE no stats changed, etc).
We could possibly make a list of games that are ok to use fan-translations for (with a confirmation of permission from you before they actually start the run) or maybe for a game with several translations, choose which 1 is the best and stick with that one.
We could possibly make a list of games that are ok to use fan-translations for (with a confirmation of permission from you before they actually start the run) or maybe for a game with several translations, choose which 1 is the best and stick with that one.
In which situations could it be applied? I don't want it to become a loophole for accepting all kinds of "translations" that happen to hack the game in unknown ways.
Do it on per-approve basis as is currently done with uhh… everything else here.
Would mean we need someone to make subtitles for every single game that someone wants to do a foreign run of. Translation patches make it easier in that regard.
that's not true, because wheter it's in english or in japanese, only people would have played the game know the game, since dialogues are usually sped up by a lot. besides, who would want to read each and every sentence ? would you press "pause" all the time ? and rpg runs are all terribly long and excessively talkative...
subtitles are much better, since the writer can sum up the plot and detail the actions taken to gain time in the tas. it also helps the massive crowd who never played the game to enjoy it.
indications must help the viewers watch the movie faster, not hinder him...
I never sleep, 'cause sleep is the cousin of death - NAS
a subtitles file is very basic : for each sentence, the timecodes of appear/disappear are added. a basic tool could be designed to generate such a file by dropping markers (in & out) along a video being played when buttons are used.
I used to have such a tool but I lost it :(
it was a very basic avi player (generated by a microsoft dll) with the basic playing buttons, and the following options :
- a textbox to enter, well, the text
- a button to tell the program to make the corresponding subtitle begin at the current moment played in the (paused) video
- same to drop an "end" marker
- very basic menu to load/save the .srt/.sub file.
I'm not sure if such tools can be found easily ; there is one for the .ssa format though, but only synched to sound, not video. maybe a virtualdub plugin ?
equipped with this, anyone could produce subs with great ease.
I never sleep, 'cause sleep is the cousin of death - NAS
Yes, but that's not to say they'd see any reason to if there was a fan translation patch available, and when you consider that RPGs, the game genre that would need the translation patch most, can be over 3-4 hours long... I'd say a fan translation patch would be more efficient than going through and making subtitles of everything. I personally don't see the problem with adding the patch to the submission file.
