Everybody... I found a way how to warp through levels. Press left+right in the world map on certain levels (It may take a few tries), and you can access levels that aren't even unlocked. I haven't tested this with all the levels yet, but I tried with World 1-2, and it warped me to World 4-6. It messes up when you beat the level, though, but when you reset the game, it'll fix, and you'll be able to play World 4-7 and continue.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Well. Yoshi Island beaten in under 20 or 30 minutes then I presume?
I better get started then, which could be as soon as this thursday.
And I'd like for there to be 3 categories if that's alright (hm I seem to be saying that a lot recently... but it's true, good games shouldn't have category restrictions) glitchy warped, any% (using only warps not caused by left+right, i.e. the tubes and world map) and 100%.
I don't know what you're talking about ... I tried it on 1-2 and all it did was scroll me down to 1-8. I tried it several times at different frames, all with the same result. I'm using Snes9x 1.51 if that makes any difference.
EDIT: okay that was because I used a file where all the levels were already completed. I started a new file, worked my way up to 1-2, and the glitch does indeed work, at least on Snes9x 1.51. Great find, Y0SH1.
EDIT2: here's a vid of the trick
http://download.yousendit.com/3E86B6474DE1CA32
EDIT3: okay did some more testing and it looks like warping works on all levels. Most of them are useless, but 1-1 takes you to 1-E and 2-1 takes you to 6-1. Will try to make a comprehensive list soon.
EDIT4: here's a list of warps
1-1 -> 1-E
1-2 -> 4-6 or 2-8
1-3 -> 1-1
1-4 -> 2-8
1-5 -> 1-1
1-6 -> 2-8
1-7 -> 2-8
1-8 -> 2-8
2-1 -> 6-1
2-2 -> 3-8 or deloaded level
2-3 -> 3-8
2-4 doesn't seem to work
2-5 -> 2-1
2-6 -> 3-8
2-7 -> 3-8
2-8 -> 3-8
3-1 -> deloaded level
3-2 -> 4-8 or deloaded level
3-3 -> 4-8 or 3-1
3-4 doesn't seem to work
3-5 -> 3-1
3-6 -> 4-8
3-7 -> 4-8
3-8 -> 4-8
4-1 -> 5-8 or 6-4
4-2 -> deloaded level
4-3 -> 4-1
4-4 -> 5-8
4-5 -> 4-1
4-6 -> 5-8
4-7 -> 5-8
4-8 -> 5-8
5-1 -> deloaded level
5-2 -> deloaded level
5-3 -> 5-1
5-4 doesn't seem to work
5-5 -> 5-1
5-6 -> 6-8
5-7 doesn't seem to work
5-8 -> 6-8
6-1 -> deloaded level
6-2 -> what appears to be a fortress but with a different colored yoshi
6-3 -> 6-1
6-4 doesn't seem to work
6-5 -> 6-1
6-6 -> deloaded level
6-7 doesn't seem to work
6-8 -> deloaded level
However this only applies if you progress through the levels one-by-one. If you used the warp at an earlier point, it changes some ram values and the later level warps don't seem to work. Right now I think the fastest method is to play up to 2-1 and then warp to 6-1 and then continue normally from there. 2-2 -> 3-8 then 4-1 -> 6-4 is also worth testing so see if it works, and if so, if it is faster.
EDIT5: ok ignore that list. We now know the warp is determined by the number of coins, not by the level.
Haha, now that's a glitch-warp. I like how the new level preview image emerges from the existing one.
Excellent work, everybody.
Edit: What about 1-2; 4-6; 5-8; 6-8?
Would that work? 5-8 is a rather long level, perhaps, but 5 levels out of the "standard" 48 would sure be something, if it does work.
Andreas
You would be mistaken to think either of these =)
I won't elaborate just yet
No as laughing gas said, using the warp changes some ram values and thus the different warps he posted only apply to if you get to said levels legitimately
I'm sciencing as fast as I can !
______________________________________
<adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining
<adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises
Do you mean 1-2 to 4-6 and then 4-7 to 5-8? When you do the warp from 1-2 to 4-6 it just dumps you in the level and not in the level select screen, which is where the warping has to occur.
What, is there a way to warp to 6-8 directly?
I'm sciencing as fast as I can !
______________________________________
<adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining
<adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises
Strange, after I do warps and then complete the level after the warp, sometimes the game freezes, and sometimes it doesn't. I think whether it freezes or not affects the future warps in some way.
haha, wow, THIS is an interesting development. I would support using any glitch necessary for an any% now since it would be so short, and 100%. not sure about the other category cf mentioned though :)
Most logical seems to me one movie as fast as possible with no restrictions whatsoever (any%), and one movie which collects 100% in every level. If it turns out you can go back several times to 1-1 to collect 100% faster, I think that should be banned (for 100% tas), since the goal of these TASes is entertainment after all.
I can see that if a glitched any% run is submitted people won't want to have it obsolete the current movie if there isn't a 100% one yet. Maybe it's better if a 100% movie obsoletes the current movie, and the glitched movie doesn't.
If there is a movie which completes the game as fast as possible, and a 100% movie, an any% nonglitched movie probably doesn't show much more than the other two movies do.
Revised route:
Start the game from fresh, finish 1-1, go back to 1-1 and warp to 1-4, finish 1-4, go back to 1-2 and warp to 5-8, then continue as normal. This allows us to skip the long autoscrolling level (1-5) in the first world, as well as 1-6, 1-7, and 1-8, more than enough to compensate for the long 5-8.
Tested on snes9x 1.51. I'ved noticed that 1.51 and v10 give slightly different results, which is troubling, considering the recent fiasco with VBA's echo ram.
I've already sent Nitsuja some information and asked him to check if this is in fact an emulation error or a legitimate glich. Also, I have to ask, because i haven't heard from any of you that you're having the same problem. When I try running SMW2 on 1.51 the background has a tendancy to cover up the foreground on certain levels. 1-4, 1-7, 5-1 are best examples. Is that my computer or is that 1.51?
I'm sciencing as fast as I can !
______________________________________
<adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining
<adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises
I'm sciencing as fast as I can !
______________________________________
<adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining
<adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises
No, that never happened on my comp before.
EDIT: Gah, this thing is annoying. It seems like the # of eggs you pick up, the # of eggs you use, and the # of eggs you finish the level with all combine to determine where the next level will warp you to. This game is getting close to being King's Bounty.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Nice finds everyone. I'm sure we'll discover the fastest route soon. Don't forget that there is also the up+down+jump on tubes arp to skip long levels, for those levels that are goign to be played out normally.
All this is making me so excited to finally get back to the TASing scene and get started.
Hm, good points. I suppose I'm ok with this not obsoleting anything, then 100% obsoleting the current any%. I did kind of want to also work on a longer YI run as well, so maybe in the future I'll find myself working with 100% as well. We shall see.
The 100% WIP does use a warp to skip through 2-1 and collects the rest of the flowers/coins in 1-1; we've found some more warps that are doable to do the same thing, plus there is the up+down jump on tubes, so I guess 100% should have absolutely no warps whatsoever, which means the long autoscrolling section in 2-1 needs to be done as well.
Well, then theoretically we can go directly from 1-1 to 6-8, right?
Perhaps, but the chance is very slim. So far I've only gotten to the first 5 worlds from the 1st world though, I think 5-8 might be the closest we can achieve. As spezzafer said, everything in this game determines randomness.
The good news is that it doesn't seem to be an emulation bug. v10 and 1.51 give the same results as long as you keep the input the same. Some things to take note of are:
- how many eggs do you pick up?
- on which enemy do you use the eggs on?
- how many eggs you finish the level with?
- do you get hit and lose baby mario at any point in the level?
- what is your score at the end of the level?
- how many enemies you kill?
All of them appear to affect the warp in some way, and sometimes you need to complete a level and go back to it in order to access a particular warp.
What this means is that just racing through a level as fast as possible might result in an undesirable warp in the next level. We must find the minimum conditions in each level to create the desired warp, then find that fastest route to fulfill those conditions.
Wow, this beats all my expectations. Why don't you submit this? There's still some minor timesavers left out.
edit: btw, what are the conditions required for the 6-8 warp? Is it just losing baby mario or is it also beating the intro level and collecting a certain number of red coins?
I probably don't move optimally in the beginning but I don't feel like doing it all over again. For column 1 it's fortunately the number of coins that determine the level you go to. So you just have to pick up 68 coins. There could be other levels one could try first instead of 1-1 where it's easier to get coins. 2-4, 3-8 and 6-4 aren't available. Getting 23, 24, 35, 36, 47, 48, 59 or 60 coins just take you to 1-1 with a messed up title.
Joined: 6/25/2007
Posts: 732
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
If you really wanted to, you could redo just the beginning and edit in the input, right? Or would that mess up the random number generator, causing the rest of the movie to desynchronize in this case?
Also, I was wondering, is there any time-saving value in ending a level by hitting the end "ring" at the lowest possible point, or does the game just make up for the extra falling time anyway? This is a general question about the game, by the way; not related to HHS' video.
Thanks for clearing that up. I think you should submit this as a placeholder, like the first AlttP glitched run, then hopefully someone else will optimize it later, also like the AlttP glitched run.
This game is impossible to hex edit. Any attempts to do so will result in a desynch, whether it be in the next level or 50 levels later.