Posted: 6/17/2007 9:36 AM
Post subject: So, what submissons should you have ignored?
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Xkeeper
Banned User
Joined: 12/23/2004
Posts: 1850
*023459» <Zurreco> no, i just dont think that people should vote on runs when they know nothing about the game Well, go on, confess. I would, except 99% of the games here I've never played. I just make a decision as to wether or not the movie I watched was entertaining and worth my time.
Perma-banned
Posted: 6/17/2007 9:58 AM
Post subject: I feel I am biting off more than I can chew...
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Zurreco
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
I feel that that quote is a bit out of context. That being said, have some context to put it in! I don't understand how people can be upset when a popular submission receives a quick publication. Simply put, popular submissions are widely available to informed decisions. This is because the game has been previously experienced by many people, who in turn show interest in a submission, give accurate feedback to the work therein, and speed along the process of judgment. Contra to that, if someone submits work on a very vague game, it will probably spend more time in the submissions queue. This is because the submission needs to generate attention from voters who have not experienced the game before. People unfamiliar with a submission are not as willing to watch/vote on the run, since they understand that they do not have an acceptably informed opinion. Voting results are low, feedback is minimal, and judges are forced to either wait for more feedback to arise (which is what normally keeps submissions in the queue limbo) or make a decision based on few votes. In conclusion, popular submissions get the quick treatment because they are easily judged due to an excess of informed votes and feedback. Unpopular submissions get stuck in the queue because they don't generate enough attention/acceptable feedback. If there is anyone to blame for this trend, it is definitely NOT the voters, the judges, or the submitters. Therefore, who can we blame for this (seemingly) logical progression? At what point do we sacrifice informed decisions on whether or not a submission is publish-worthy in order to get more submissions out of the queue faster? Also, I am of the belief that before someone votes on a submission, they should play through the game to an extent that they feel that they grasp the main mechanics and techniques of a submission. While I understand that the submission asks "Was this submission entertaining?", I generally believe that runs become less entertaining when you see flaws in them. Does that mean that I should not experience submissions so as to stay ignorant of flaws and find submissions more entertaining? e: And I resent the term "ignore." Ignoring a submission is not the same as acknowledging that you aren't interesting in watching a submission/aren't currently capable of judging such a submission. If you're honestly concerned that you are ignoring submissions, do yourself a favor and educate yourself on said content and then watch/view/respond/sit back and help that submission reach its rightful conclusion.
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Posted: 6/17/2007 2:06 PM
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laughing_gas
Former player
Joined: 10/1/2006
Posts: 1102
Location: boot_camp
I ignore all submissions of games I haven't played, unless it's related to something I have played (SDW - SMW, for instance)
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Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Posted: 6/17/2007 2:56 PM
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ZeXr0
Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 883
I like innovative game, but I mostly don't watch submission that are something other than SNES unless there's an .avi that I can download to watch it.
Posted: 6/17/2007 2:57 PM
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Vatchern
Player (86)
Joined: 3/8/2005
Posts: 973
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
I ignore basically Hacks, Gens, and games I have never played.
http://tasvideos.org/Vatchern.html
Posted: 6/17/2007 4:04 PM
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pirate_sephiroth
Active player (315)
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
New systems TAS of 2009
NES and Genesis runs, except very well known games.
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Posted: 6/17/2007 4:24 PM
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nesrocks
He/Him
Player (247)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
I only watch runs of games I've played, except rare cases. It's very hard for me to enjoy a run of a game I've never played, which is why I'm a little contrary to the main goal of the site "making fun videos" generally. It's almost impossible to make a fun video of a game that only a few people like. So we get popular games videos with high rating, and we have rare exceptions of other obscure games that allow a clearer "super human" gameplay that also get high rating. Less famous games are bound to have low rating, no matter how well they're played, even if it's "more impressive" than a very popular game played well.
aka Nesrocks http://www.youtube.com/user/UoBtExFODA https://nesrocks.com https://twitter.com/bitinkstudios
Posted: 6/17/2007 4:33 PM
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Spacecow
He/Him
Joined: 6/21/2004
Posts: 247
Location: New Hampshire
I usually watch videos of games I haven't played but have at least heard of, to see what the game is like (roughly). I'll rarely vote on it, though, unless the movie is clearly well done and very entertaining. Umihara Kawase is a good example (and the videos got me to play the game!)
Posted: 6/17/2007 4:37 PM
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TNSe
Emulator Coder
Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 453
Location: Norway
Why should I repeat what the brazilian said.
Posted: 6/17/2007 5:34 PM
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Mechuyael
Joined: 2/1/2007
Posts: 245
Location: Israel
I'll be willing to vote on any movie I watch, since the question is whether or not I enjoyed the movie, not if I liked the game. I usually don't vote on movies that are an improvement over a published run.
Posted: 6/17/2007 5:43 PM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
I watch SMW runs, most sonic runs (Gens ones anyway), most Super Metroid runs, the occasional random submission by JXQ, plus the occasional run of some genesis game I had as a kid. That's pretty much it. I realize this isn't quite what Xkeeper had in mind for this topic, but there's not much left to discuss after Zurreco killed Xkeeper in that first reply.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 6/17/2007 7:46 PM
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Xkeeper
Banned User
Joined: 12/23/2004
Posts: 1850
Mechuyael wrote:
I'll be willing to vote on any movie I watch, since the question is whether or not I enjoyed the movie, not if I liked the game.
This is how I usually see it. I'll usually randomly pick out a movie of the queue when I have nothing else to do and watch it. Fabian: Zurreco didn't kill it; he just posted a long, overwinded reply to a simple thread. As far as I'm concerned, his reply actually has no bearing on the thread other than to give the quote context (whoopee).
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Posted: 6/17/2007 8:13 PM
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Zurreco
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
Xkeeper wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, his reply actually has no bearing on the thread other than to give the quote context (whoopee).
Did you miss this part?
Zurreco wrote:
And I resent the term "ignore." Ignoring a submission is not the same as acknowledging that you aren't interesting in watching a submission/aren't currently capable of judging such a submission. If you're honestly concerned that you are ignoring submissions, do yourself a favor and educate yourself on said content and then watch/view/respond/sit back and help that submission reach its rightful conclusion.
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
Posted: 6/17/2007 8:17 PM
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Xkeeper
Banned User
Joined: 12/23/2004
Posts: 1850
ignore "the voting mechanism for", then.
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Posted: 6/17/2007 8:25 PM
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Raiscan
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
I vote on/watch submissions only for games which I have played. Exceptions to this are hacks, runs getting alot of attention (with encouragement like "hey you must watch that run!") and runs of games that are sequels/prequels to games I have played. After all, how can I vote/comment on a run when I know nothing about the game itself? If there is a particularly good/entertaining run for a game I haven't played, I try to play the game before I watch the speedrun, just to get a feel for what is possible in the game. It generally gives me more amusement when watching the run because I can see how much the game is messed up (An example of this was Metroid, which I had never played beforehand).
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
Posted: 6/17/2007 8:36 PM
(Edited: 6/18/2007 11:43 AM)
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Mitjitsu
He/Him
Banned User
Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997
TAS of 2007 N64 TAS of 2007
Of course popular games should recieve some form of priority, but it should be noted that if they are over prioritised then all we'll ever see is improvements to these and often in the context of very minor or purley frame shaving runs. Its quite clear that some games have lost there freshness and have become exhausted through these means.
Posted: 6/17/2007 9:06 PM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
Xkeeper, You really just made this thread so people could list what type of runs they typically watch? Ok then, fine.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 6/18/2007 1:11 AM
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CtrlAltDestroy
Active player (328)
Joined: 2/23/2005
Posts: 786
Besides games I have played, I watch anything that particularly grabs my attention. When voting on games that are more obscure, I focus on the technicality judgment before the entertainment judgment. If I didn't play the game, and it appears there are no mistakes in the movie, and there is (however much) positive feedback from other people, then I'll vote yes, regardless of whether or not the movie struck me as "totally amazing". If I see a mistake in a movie, I might try it for myself. If I do, and I find I can gain time, then I will vote no. This is what I did with the Widget movie. If the movie struck me as really boring, and already got some negative feedback, I will vote no or meh. (Hopefully that answers the main question of the thread)