well yeah i see i must go through this nightmare but thats ok
i had some thought for the final noboss run let me show you..
- going through blue brinstar after the xray maybe to avoid the bombjump to the third powerbomb(well i dont know whats faster yet)
- taking the first energytank to make it easier since it is a no boss run so the 10% would not mind it or? its not the lowest classic-low% and not the lowest-xray glitch, taking it would make it easier and faster i guess to get noboss/miniboss at fastest time
what do you guys think?
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
I don't think you can get back to blue brinstar from red brinstar without having the wave beam, I think there is a blue gate in the way.
Collecting an extra etank won't really save much time at all, so I don't know if collecting it is such a great idea. If you do collect it, you might as well collect a bunch of other items as well. Items such as the ice beam or another missile pack would probably make the final time lower.
- the ice beam would not save time i guess xD
- another missile pack maybe + the energy tank
- i could shot the bluegate like the greengates with the supermissile-trick and open it backwards ( do you think its a faster route then ? )
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
I am almost certain that it would be slower to take the power bombs from blue brinstar. Since you need the collect the power bombs in the upper area of the red brinstar shaft, you will already be very close to crateria. Backtracking all the way to blue brinstar would be a big detour, especially when you consider the fact that you will need to refill at your ship anyway.
Yeah, I agree with hero. Blue Brinstar will be much slower even without the need to IBJ because of the big detour.
Regarding additional item collections, 10% is still the lowest possible amount in a NBMB-based Kejardon run, so I think aiming for it is still worth, no matter if it's not the lowest possible amount.
On the other hand the energy tank would speed up the spike room before X-Ray, but I still wouldn't go for it to not destroy the classic low% of that run.
Collecting the Ice Beam is still a interesting choice, but even though the pre X-Ray room and the Metroids will be somewhat faster, the detour for it, including the long double elevator ride to Norfair, will still be slower in the end I think. Just to share my thoughts.
- going through blue brinstar after the xray maybe to avoid the bombjump to the third powerbomb(well i dont know whats faster yet)
That way you'll also "avoid" recharging at the ship. If you have no fast ways to refill the ammo while going through blue Brinstar, it's not going to be faster.
evilchen wrote:
- taking the first energytank to make it easier since it is a no boss run so the 10% would not mind it or? its not the lowest classic-low% and not the lowest-xray glitch, taking it would make it easier and faster i guess to get noboss/miniboss at fastest time
Well, I advised you to go for fastest time from the beginning, so yeah, I'd rather go for taking the e-tank. Unfortunately for you, taking the Ice beam isn't worth the detour time-wise, so you'll still have to fight metroids with powerbombs. Also, a piece of trivia: killing the first rinka spawned in the room with metroids using a powerbomb makes all of them (including those offscreen) active. You'll have to do it at least for the first room (otherwise you won't have enough ammo). Kinda like this.
And make sure you don't lose that much health before Brinstar the second time around, since you don't have to die on the spikes anymore.
Also, before Tourian, you can get one ammo refill from the pirates in the zig-zag room, since you can kill the last two of them with missiles, manipulate a missile refill and a super missile refill, like this. The second refill was supposed to be a super missile, but it's actually very hard to manipulate it to drop from these pirates. Yet it's still possible and faster than going into another room in any case. If you want to discuss other possible improvements, feel free to ask me on IRC or via PM.
Tub wrote:
the pre-X-Ray-room looks fine to me. More health would make that room faster, but boring.
Why boring? If anything, it will remove all the unneeded waiting in the least, not to mention more optimal damage taking.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
the pre-X-Ray-room looks fine to me. More health would make that room faster, but boring.
Why boring? If anything, it will remove all the unneeded waiting in the least, not to mention more optimal damage taking.
I've seen samus damage-boost through a room full of spikes countless times. This is the first time I actually enjoyed it, because it looks impossible with just one energy-tank, and the solution that was found is pretty slick.
I'd rather watch some stupid stunts while waiting and some unexpected moves to overcome a difficult obstacle than watching the usual strategy, even if it's slower.
As the guidelines say: "If you have the choice, try to do things in a more impressive way than the easy way."
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
I agree with tub. Seeing a barely breathing samus navigate her way through a huge room of spikes is very impressive.
Plus collecting the extra e-tank *might* be slower for real-time movie length. Of course it would be faster for in-game time, so if evilchen favors in-game time only then he has more of a reason to collect it.
Plus collecting the extra e-tank *might* be slower for real-time movie length. Of course it would be faster for in-game time, so if evilchen favors in-game time only then he has more of a reason to collect it.
Not a chance in hell. There's a lot of waiting/slowdowns in his testrun, about all of them could be eliminated with that one etank. Most obvious ones are the pre-X-ray room, the right red Brinstar shaft and the powerbomb room near the landing site.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Most of the waits could have been eliminated by better energy management as well. 8 seconds is hard to gain back, don't be so quick to dismiss the possibility.
Most of the waits could have been eliminated by better energy management as well. 8 seconds is hard to gain back, don't be so quick to dismiss the possibility.
The guy knows what he is talking about. After all he managed a pretty impressive health and ammo management even in the most critical parts in his any% run.
In any case, I think it would be pretty close. But then again, you have another pro point of getting a low% for this run. 10% NBMB looks more impressive than 11%, so collecting the energy tank is only worth if your absolutely top goal is pure ingame time, and not the classic and more interesting style, which I would go in any case if I would do such a run.
well well i see 10% is the deal guys ;)..
i know ive done a shitty hp-managment .. or let me say i did not do any managment on this run - it was like give it a try and learn tasing or something like that..
tips like moozooh's are really helpfull to me, if you have more ideas or improvements for the next version i would like to see them - i never tought of the pirate droping a super missile for example ;D
Also, a piece of trivia: killing the first rinka spawned in the room with metroids makes all of them (including those offscreen) active. You'll have to do it at least for the first room (otherwise you won't have enough ammo). Kinda like this.
i dont understand this, i have killed all the 4 metroid now with 3 powerbombs without minding any rinka stuff or something like that - but i cant manage to get at least 3 powerbombs(or perfectly 4) yet
any ideas how to manage this? it is kinda difficult because when i get 2 pb's and 2 other items i cant change my position in order to change there position - if i do so i allways lose the 2pb's and get complete different stuff
another question: seeing the pre-xrayroom was boring or what? i couldn't follow your postings at all about that
I forgot to specify… That first rinka has to be killed using a powerbomb. Also, pay attention to how I kill those metroids: all of them die at different time, allowing more opportunities to manipulate each drop. It's much easier to manipulate one drop at a time, especially since you'll have about 1/3 chance of a powerbomb refill from each of them… 33% is better than 1.23%, isn't it?
Regarding the pre-X-ray room, it wasn't really boring, but the fact that you stopped and waited a lot left the impression of "he only had to take that etank; why, oh why didn't he do it".
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
i couldnt go back if i did not wait at the way back;) and considerate its a sloppy sloppy testrun :/ i didnt think off that maybe i could save enough energy for the wayback without waiting
----
the metroids die in different times but its not much time between their deathes but i know what you mean iam giving my best :x
Hero of the day did you do this video from your own run? I mean is this sickdeal account yours?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHtJz1803bM
I gotta say I liked it a lot. Just found it randomly.
I'll say short what I think that can be fixed in the next run, just an idea:
All the 4 main boss rooms should be entered abusing the turnaround to trigger door transition earlier.
<Deign> .dice 1d1999191023443691
<BisqBot> Deign rolls a blackhole and destroys the planet.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Thanks Tonski, I actually posted that music video on the music video thread (general forum). I think the song works pretty well with Super Metroid.
Like moozooh said, JXQ did used the turnaround animation on all his boss doors so I knew about it already. There are lots of other little things that will be improved in my new run as well. I am looking forward to making it, but I am unhappy with my new Ceres station run. While I tied JXQ's frames for the escape, I actually managed to lose time on the escape clock. It has to do with the timing differences between 1.43 and 1.51. I guess I will just move on now, but I am really bummed that I could not get a better escape clock time. The steam really just did not work in my favor, despite my efforts.
well good movie hero :)! you should use some transitions for the scene cut or something to make it easier to watch for people who dont know metroid and cant follow a cutszene or a new room [edit] ok maybe some szenes are supposed to have no transition to fit in the music beat ;) forgott about it sorry^^
to the -1.51-thing:
well what are your times in each room in ceres with 1.51? i tried to tie the room after ridley with you and allways got xx.22 and you xx.23 :/! i tried 30-45 minutes and left it with xx.22 :/(still xx.08 faster then my old :p)
to the runs:
there are two things which take time, getting powerbombs in v1 - and skipping chozo in v2 i guess i need somemore time then i planned to
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Thanks evilchen, I plan on making a new music video when I finish my new run. I know you have done some work with JXQ's movie and produced some pretty cool music videos.
here are my new rooms (1.51):
Ridley>1 = 00'59"87 (2412 ingame frames)
1>2 = 00'58"25 (2509)
2>3 = 00'56"51 (2613) intentionally lost 1 frame to JXQ for better steam
3>4 = 00'53"71 (2781) intentioanlly lost 3 frames to JXQ for perfect steam in the next room
4>5 = 00'51"74 (2899) gained 4 frames on JXQ, we are now even
5>end = 00'48"99 (same exact frame count as JXQ)
So when you are working on your escape time evilchen, you should looks at JXQ's times and not the ones from my published movie. Are you using 1.51 or 1.43?
there are two things which take time, getting powerbombs in v1 - and skipping chozo in v2 i guess i need somemore time then i planned to
Torizo skip is easy, just follow the instructions I've prepared on the tricks page. Here's how it should look: http://youtube.com/watch?v=4McBbP1bV-A
I might try improving it for v2, but this strategy is good enough, I suppose.
I assure you, the only thing that's going to be hard is fighting metroids with powerbombs. The rest is a cakewalk in comparison.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
yeah you are right moozooh :)!
very nice hero ;) so that means i should not watch at the time counter ingame to compare the 1.43 vs 1.51 - instead should watch the ingame frames... ok ok.. man and i wondered why i cant even get the same time with you and/or jxq
