Maybe he can just us on here if he is. If he is, I'll just let him work on it and figure out something more to work on.
If he is, well...I could always try near-Pacifist Batman or something. I dunno what there is I could work on, seems like all the interesting games have been taken.
Well, it's not like you aren't allowed to do your own version of a certain run… It just might turn out to be inoptimal in case the other author has come up with something you haven't. It happened many times, including the Super Demo World 120-stars run, which has been attempted by Chef Stef (he had to quit it halfways since jimsfriend's WIP was faster at that moment).
Then again, you could try improving one of the existing runs of the games you like, even if you think they're "good enough".
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
There's no way to get a 100% run in this game because some items will replace another, this is especially so with the Boots of Force, which can be replaced with the (completely ineffective, at least that I've seen) Boots of Lava Walk, Cloak of Darkness, Wand of Wonder, etc.
It'd be pretty cool if they'd thought ahead and made a bit of a better inventory or whatever so that you could keep all the items you get.
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
Yes, the 100% run is the only one which is being prioritated here.
Rick has found some crazy, by-me-overseen route ideas which are like... totally amazing.
We are progressing through the test run now.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
We've currently decided to cancel the test run.
Instead, just for you, we've decided to just go ahead with the final version! We'll be giving you level by level WIPs as we go along with this, so hold tight, folks!
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/781683218/W%26W%20DA%20Boss2.fcm
Here's the first WIP:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/5855/W%26W%20DA%20Boss1.fcm
We end up with 2HP and 102 gems for minimal HP-countdown, and, in this level (Due to the strange placement of the very last gem in the stage) "optimal" Gem-count.
After leaving blue door, we get an extra gem. Later on, it turned out that we _really_ did not need that gem, but, waiting for the bee to catch up and act trampoline (Seriously, this game has some weird ass physics) took actually longer time, but that was due to little testing. It would still probably not be faster.
This game is very hex-edit hostile (Not only unfriendly, but truly hostile) so any findings can be reported as soon as possible, that'd be great, mmkay?
Any comments before moving on to stage 2 are very appreciated.
UPDATE: Second WIP:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/781683218/W%26W%20DA%20Boss2.fcm
The second stage can be redone somewhat easily, so if anyone has anything to say about Level 1, now is the time to do so.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
Ok, I'll throw in some questions.
-- frame ~575, suspiciously long pause before you jump again here...
-- frame ~837, is it not possible to land with any more horizontal velocity so that you will reach the blue door faster?
-- Aren't blue bottles a good thing? I was able to get a blue bottle at frame 1775 where you got a pink one. Just hold B starting at frame 1762 for 3 frames or more. The slow pause when you killed the bird was very suspicious, hence I tried.
-- Dealing with the small bats in level 2 boss did not seem optimal.
Other than these, it looks good. This game has charisma.
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
-- frame ~575, suspiciously long pause before you jump again here...
Actually A is being pressed on the first or second frame after landing.
-- frame ~837, is it not possible to land with any more horizontal velocity so that you will reach the blue door faster?
Hm, that might be possible yes. I'll look into it.
-- Aren't blue bottles a good thing? I was able to get a blue bottle at frame 1775 where you got a pink one. Just hold B starting at frame 1762 for 3 frames or more. The slow pause when you killed the bird was very suspicious, hence I tried.
The pink bottle is needed to get up from the nest where the Force Boots are located, and also to be able to nail the rhino-lookalike...thing...stuff for the extra 2 gems before getting the chest.
- Dealing with the small bats in level 2 boss did not seem optimal.
Damage had to be taken upon killing the last boss to be able to kill the last huge bat as fast as possible, if that is what you mean. This boss battle was redone 3 times using 3 totally different styles, all making Kuros leave the room on the very same frame, so... I dunno.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
The pink bottle is needed to get up from the nest where the Force Boots are located, and also to be able to nail the rhino-lookalike...thing...stuff for the extra 2 gems before getting the chest.
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
It makes Kuros jump faster and higher. Very good stuff.
Also yes at the blue door, managed to get that 18 frames faster, but more HP lost. I don't think that the HP is much of an issue though, this might even be better. Too bad that this game do not accept hex-editing :(
But it will be redone.
Thanks for the feedback
Update:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/574096454/Kopia%20av%20W%26W%20DA%20Stage1-Tree.fcm
96 frames faster due to the randomness of this game which makes it kill my soul.
Once again thanks Bisqwit.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
Level 2 completed and wrapped up with 40-isch frames faster (Than last WIP) boss fight.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/926953926/W%26W%20DA%20Level%202%20completed.fcm
I might try to redo that fight later on before going to level 3.
Also, I will start my vacation this Friday, and will be gone for several weeks, and Rick will leave in about a week, so progress will be slow from this point.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
Yeah, unfortunately, I'm gonna be gone for the most part for seven weeks in about a week here for heavy duty work. 57 hours a week minimum. >_o
I'll poke about when I can to answer any questions I can, but I don't expect to be online often at all.
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
The last WIP before I start my vacation.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1630904865/W%26W%20DA%20Level%203%20again.fcm
EDIT and UPDATE: I found a new trick for falling faster (Crossing fingers that it won't make Kuros dizzy upon landing), so I might have to redo level 2... and if not, at least level 3 has to be updated, found an improvement to that one. Hopefully, the trick works in level 2 and 3.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1048104378/WORKING%20ON.fcm
5 frames faster than the previous WIP up until this point. However, it has more HP :(
The trick can be seen in level 2, after getting the red key, I use Potion Of Levitation for one frame, and then press Down on the next frame. This helps Kuros gain maximum falling speed instantly. However, it only seem to be faster if one is not moving "forward", since it makes Kuros land faster, and therefore makes him lose horizontal movement.
Edit: Amusingly enough, but no the least surprising, the few frames gained in level 2 was lost in level 3 due to the randomness in this horrible game, so the WIP I'll be working on from this point is the one in the post from several weeks ago.
Well it might be used later on.
Latest WIP then...
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/506323296/Level3%20Done%20again.fcm
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
I apologize if this has been brought up already, but how do you alter what item you get from a torch/acorn or enemy drop? This is my absolute FAVORITE game of all time (really, it is), and I could never figure out how to change that. I might *eventually* try a TAS of W&W, but for now, I like trying to work on my speedrun while playing on an actual NES.
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
It is altered by like, which frame you hit it on, which buttons you hold while hitting it, which buttons you held before hitting it etc., so basically try to manipulate input to try to get the items you want. A lot harder to do on console, of course >_>
Acorns and candles also seem to have a pre-set set of items, so from certain acorns, you can only get like a 1-gem.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
Is there any place where anyone compiled a list of the tips/tricks they used to TAS this game? I know of a couple not-so-obvious things about the game, but I don't repeat already-done effort.
The one thing that I noticed was that in some of the hidden gem rooms, the current TAS video has Kuros picking up the gems by jumping/walking into them. By doing that, they only count as 1 gem. If you collect them using your throwing dagger/axe, they count as 2 gems. Perhaps the time it'd take to throw the dagger negates the usefulness of this fact, but I think it *may* help in some of the gem rooms.
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1548045342/01%20-%20Level%204%20done.fcm
Take a look at level 4 of this WIP, it shows how the gem-rooms are being tackled. Waiting for the dagger to return just takes too long time for it to be constantly used.
Also, I dunno if there is a list of tricks. I haven't seen one.
I only know some minor tricks like instant turning, faster falling and falling of ledges while crouching, among the not-so-obvious ones.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
