Post by Spider-Waffle

Posted: 5/20/2007 5:21 AM
(Edited: 5/22/2007 1:59 AM)

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Spider-Waffle

Banned User

Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049

Did you ever find out if the FTZ was 18/19s as fast as the TtFT? Or how does the FTZ compare? A table of common tricks like this and the number frames they take would be nice. For cases like this it seems you don’t want the first boost to be too big because you won’t get the full effect. However, the second boost you won’t to be as big as possible. So I wonder if you could do 3 tricks for the last air by making the first trick smaller, like a RT instead of R2T, or maybe just a Tt. Also why didn’t you do the tap backwards and do a FT instead of the RT, is this because it was a bounce and not a jump? For the last half loop, can you do a TtTZ, TtRT, Tt2TZ, or TtR2T instead of a F2T? *EDIT* I found you can do TtFT, this is even better than all those tricks above. Two twists and a Tt will not work I'm pretty sure. Also for the naming convention I think it makes more since to switch the order of T and Z, even though the game list them in a weird order. It’s just easier to see where Zs are replacing Rs of Fs. For the last jump can you tap backwards? I don’t think it’ll help for this case because doing a R2F is the same as a 2RF, but I’m just wondering for the future.

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."

Posted: 5/20/2007 11:32 AM

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nitsuja

Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1311)

Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687

I found a small change that saves time in dragster (doing the last trick after getting part of the boost). I don't think I did the best trick but it came out to 23.47 instead of 23.56.

Posted: 5/20/2007 6:59 PM

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Spider-Waffle

Banned User

Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049

That's a good idea. Also you might not want the last trick to be the best, rather you want it to be just good enough to get you across the line so you don't have to jump as high and can land sooner and start the big boost sooner. Plus your X position might get too far if you jump too high and you'll lose some of the boost.

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."

Posted: 5/22/2007 2:03 AM

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Spider-Waffle

Banned User

Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049

I was wondering something about this run. Is the plan to just beat it on bronze? If so I don't think that unlocks the hunter circuit so won't actually beat the full game. I was thinking maybe it'd be best to start off with a game where it's beaten on silver; this is very much analogous to the Mario kart run. Not only would this allow hunter circuit, but the cpu racer would be faster which on some tracks, like monster, will make you faster because the cpu will catch up to you sooner and you'll get a speed boost. I think you might be able to do the warp up trick on monster. I think it's a matter being under the exact section of the slope when you’re at peak jump height. This is hard because you have to jump over so much of that spinner, but it looks close to possible. You might need a big boost before the jump, like a TtFT.

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."

Posted: 5/22/2007 2:50 AM

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Halamantariel

Player (105)

Joined: 1/30/2005
Posts: 564
Location: Québec, Canada

Spider-Waffle wrote:

I was wondering something about this run. Is the plan to just beat it on bronze?

The plan is to TAS it on bronze, then copy that to Silver. Hopefully, a hex-edit copy of the tracks will do it. If not, then I'll have to TAS both Bronze and Silver, and then when that's done, I'll start a new TAS from that SRAM, which will then beat the game on Gold. So there will be like 2 TASes: one that will beat the game on Bronze and Silver, and another one that will beat it on Gold. The first will be an "intro" to the latter. The actual submission is going to be the all-gold run, but there will be a link to the TAS that got the SRAM this one started with. Knowing that fact, I'm not going to re-do Dragster to include Nitsuja's find right now, and I am not going to try to find an even faster way to do that first lap of Zoom Zoo. The reason is that even though this is a TAS, it's only a "pre-TAS TAS". Therefore, it doesn't really need to be all that perfect, since the all-gold one will be perfect anyway. Still, I'm going to do it as perfect as possible without losing my mind. It's going to be a good quality pre-TAS, but the all-gold is going to be a little bit better and a little bit faster. That being said, you still can post suggestions about how to improve some things, and I really appreciate those comments and suggestions. Those new ideas will come in handy for the all-gold TAS.

Posted: 5/22/2007 10:30 AM

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Spider-Waffle

Banned User

Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049

For the first half loop, I've found you can do the R2T, then jump and do a TtR. This saves about 1.5 frames by my estimation. Holding L and left the whole time, I do an 11 frame jump upon landing, then 2 frames X, advance 6 frames, then 2 frames X. For the second half loop you can do TtF. For the third half loop you can do TtFT.

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."

Posted: 5/22/2007 3:18 PM

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Halamantariel

Player (105)

Joined: 1/30/2005
Posts: 564
Location: Québec, Canada

Spider-Waffle wrote:

For the first half loop, I've found you can do the R2T, then jump and do a TtR. This saves about 1.5 frames by my estimation. Holding L and left the whole time, I do an 11 frame jump upon landing, then 2 frames X, advance 6 frames, then 2 frames X. For the second half loop you can do TtF. For the third half loop you can do TtFT.

It would help if you told me what time you got by doing those tricks in those jumps. I know it might save 1.5 frames after that first halfloop, but that's irrelevant if the lap time is .01 seconds longer.

Posted: 5/23/2007 9:57 AM

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Spider-Waffle

Banned User

Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049

I don't see how the lap time would be slower. Your further along the track by doing the TtR, and there's nothing but uphill track after it. By the time you can be in the air again the boost will have worn off so the faster boost won't affect any later jumps.

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."

Posted: 5/23/2007 1:29 PM

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Halamantariel

Player (105)

Joined: 1/30/2005
Posts: 564
Location: Québec, Canada

Spider-Waffle wrote:

I don't see how the lap time would be slower.

Halamantariel wrote:

After modifying that 1st halfloop jump to get a bigger boost, I was never able to get the 24.15 that I got earlier. All I was able to get was 24.16. this just goes to prove my point that "bigger boosts don't always mean faster time". A little longer explanation would be that since the boost is bigger, the bike goes further to the left of the screen, to a point where it's too far and therefore loses some speed. Doing R2T and then RT is actually better than TtFT and Tt in this case, because then the bike doesn't lose speed.

That's why I wanted to know what lap time you got.

Posted: 5/23/2007 11:07 PM

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Spider-Waffle

Banned User

Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049

like I said, it's nothing but hill track after the boost so the bigger boost will have no effect on later tricks, for this case a bigger boost is obviously better. The reason you wanted a slower boost for the particular jump you're refering to was because it affected the next jump.

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."

Posted: 5/24/2007 5:01 AM

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Spider-Waffle

Banned User

Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049

I found an even better trick for the first half loop. Do a TtFT for the first trick, and at some point in the air let go of left for 10 frames, I do it after tapping right for the twist. Then you can do the TtR just like I described earlier. This put me even further ahead at the top of the hill. There's some fenomenom going on at the half loops where your uni faces different directions. Sometime I do a roll and some times a flip, the only thing different was pressing left or right at different frames in the half loop. I think might be able to do flips on the other two half loops this way too, but It's not relevant for these half loops because you can flips the slower way just as well.

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."

Posted: 5/26/2007 12:20 PM

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Halamantariel

Player (105)

Joined: 1/30/2005
Posts: 564
Location: Québec, Canada

Spider-Waffle wrote:

I'm trying to figure out how you went so far on the last jump. I can't seem to replicate it. Even doing a TtFT on the last half loop doesn't get you as far. When I try F2T like you did it doesn't work either.

See? Now do you understand why I wanted to know what time you got? That's why I always say "Bigger boost doesn't always mean faster time". Will you stop arguing on this point now? :)

Spider-Waffle wrote:

I guess I'll take a look at the speed memory adress or something. What are they btw?

7E0411,2u,X Position 7E0415,2u,Y Position 7E04B7,2s,Speed 7E11CD,2u,Booster Meter 7E1509,1u,Screen X Pos "Screen X Pos" is your position in the screen. When you're offscreen, it's 112 for some reason.

Spider-Waffle wrote:

I was wondering if it's possible to delay your boost other than jumping.

The booster meter constantly decreases. When your X position in the screen is between 15 and 175, it decreases only by 4. Other than that, it decreases by 20. So, to delay the boost, all you need to do is stay between 15 and 175.

Posted: 5/26/2007 6:04 PM

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Spider-Waffle

Banned User

Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049

See? Now do you understand why I wanted to know what time you got? That's why I always say "Bigger boost doesn't always mean faster time". Will you stop arguing on this point now? :)

I know it isn't always better as it can affect later jumps. But if the boost doesn't affect anything and then wears off and your further ahead I don't see how that isn't faster.

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."

Posted: 5/26/2007 8:13 PM

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Halamantariel

Player (105)

Joined: 1/30/2005
Posts: 564
Location: Québec, Canada

I had nothing to do today, and I didn't quite feel like TASing, so instead, I came up with this: a realtime play of Uniracers. It's 1h26m long and completes the first 6 sets of races with a silver medal. I named my character "I SUCK", because I suck. Sometimes, you'll see that I lose against Bronzen, and other times I fail to take a shortcut which is vital to beat Silvia, and other times, I just suck. So anyway ... you can get it on my website and scroll down to the bottom and download the file named "ZZZ - Realtime Play.smv". There are 3 Zs before the name because I wanted it to go to the bottom of the list. Anyway ... feel free to watch it or not. It's just a realtime play, so don't expect greatness in this. If you see anything that I missed, like a shortcut, and that I never ever took it (not when beating Bronzen nor when beating Silvia), please let me know. That's if anybody watches this ... Please don't tell me that I suck, I already know that. EDIT: Oh and by the way, no I won't be recording a realtime play of the last 2 sets, and no I'm not going to record a realtime play for all-gold. Why? Because I'm not good enough. Yeah, I can do those 2 sets for bronze. Easy. But hey, don't ask me to do them in silver! I'm not good enough and/or not patient enough for this.

Posted: 5/27/2007 1:57 AM

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Spider-Waffle

Banned User

Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049

I was able to get a 24.02 I did the better half loops tricks. In order to get the big jump on the last jump I found the key was to not pass 15 on screen position untill just before the jump. I think what this does is make your boost last longer so when you go off the jump your still in the boost. Also I didn't tap right on the frame before jump to do a twist. I found it was faster to do less twists and not get slowed down by this. I think you might want to stay in the 15-175 position for other situations, like when your going up a hill and can't do other tricks. Also I think this applys to dragster as well. How did you stay below 175 in dragster? I think once you pass 175 you should keep doing tricks, then you could pass 175 sooner.

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."

Posted: 5/28/2007 1:16 AM

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Halamantariel

Player (105)

Joined: 1/30/2005
Posts: 564
Location: Québec, Canada

*UPDATE* ... sort of I've made a decision. Since there will be 2 runs, one that completes Bronze and Silver, and then the real TAS which gets Gold everywhere, I decided to do this in 3 different ways. For Bronze, I will go for a minimalist approach. The goal is to do as little as possible to win the tracks. For the races, it means to NOT do any tricks and NOT use any shortcuts. Most of the time, I only hold left or right. For stunt tracks, I get the minimum required to win. For Silver, I will also go for a minimalist approahc. However, since Silvia is a way better opponent than Bronsen, it's going to be a lot more interesting for you guys to watch. There will be tricks and shortcuts used, but I will definitely not go for the fastest time possible. For Gold, well... do I need to tell you? I will go for the fastest time possible. Now, for the update, I've completed the first 6 sets with bronze medals. There are two exceptions to the "rules" I stated above. 1) In "Monster", I did a Twist to gain some speed in the second lap. If I didn't do that, I wouldn't have made the jump and then I would have lost. 2) In the last track (Jump Over), I jumped over the gap instead of falling in it and then jumping out of it. Why? ... because I don't want to TAS falling into the gap and getting out of it. Result? I lapped Bronzen. Here's the link: Clicky here. You don't HAVE to watch it ... after all, you could probably do this in realtime. It's not very entertaining. But then.. that's kind of the whole point, isn't it? That's not the run that will be submitted, it's only the run that will create the SRAM needed for the All-Gold run.

Posted: 5/29/2007 4:29 PM

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Tilus

Former player

Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 177

Hate to say this, but that run desynchs on Bowl, the first Stunt track (you fall one point short of the qualifying mark).

Posted: 5/29/2007 7:33 PM

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Halamantariel

Player (105)

Joined: 1/30/2005
Posts: 564
Location: Québec, Canada

Tilus wrote:

Hate to say this, but that run desynchs on Bowl, the first Stunt track (you fall one point short of the qualifying mark).

Hmm... sometimes it desyncs, sometimes it works. I just watched it 5 times in a row (from the start up until the end of Bowl), and the first 3 times, it desynched, but the next 2 times, it worked fine. Note that I use FMod to record/watch my movies. Maybe that changes something, maybe it doesn't. Could a Snes9x ninja look into that?

Posted: 5/30/2007 1:04 AM

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caitsith2

He/Him

Player (47)

Joined: 3/26/2004
Posts: 194

Make sure to complete the remaining two tours (of 8) in the all silver run. (The first 4 tours are available initially. The next 2 are available when the first 4 is completed to at least bronze level. Then the next two become available upon completing the first 6 to at least the silver level, then the very last tour becomes available after completing the first 8 to gold level. That last tour only has one objective. (no bronze/silver completion iirc))

Posted: 5/30/2007 2:26 AM

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Halamantariel

Player (105)

Joined: 1/30/2005
Posts: 564
Location: Québec, Canada

caitsith2 wrote:

Make sure to complete the remaining two tours (of 8) in the all silver run. (The first 4 tours are available initially. The next 2 are available when the first 4 is completed to at least bronze level. Then the next two become available upon completing the first 6 to at least the silver level, then the very last tour becomes available after completing the first 8 to gold level. That last tour only has one objective. (no bronze/silver completion iirc))

Gee, thanks! I didn't know that! *rolls eyes* I don't want to be mean, but thinking that I might NOT know this already is kind of an attack to my intelligence or something.

Posted: 5/30/2007 4:40 AM

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nitsuja

Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1311)

Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687

Halamantariel wrote:

Hmm... sometimes it desyncs, sometimes it works.

I notice you have Volume Envelope Height Reading on, which is so likely to make playback unreliable that the emulator possibly shouldn't even allow anyone to start recording with it on.

Posted: 5/30/2007 7:28 AM

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Kitsune

Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212

Sorry to say it, but this is really rather boring to watch. No stunts or anything? But at this rate, maybe Bubble Bobble 2 will get a TAS made. :3 A lot of boring games are getting TASes made, such as The Firemen. Ah well. Guess every game needs a TAS sooner or later. ;3

Posted: 5/30/2007 10:26 AM

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moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away

Kitsune, please, 1) learn to read (referring to this post); 2) stop posting. I beg of you.

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 5/30/2007 2:44 PM

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Halamantariel

Player (105)

Joined: 1/30/2005
Posts: 564
Location: Québec, Canada

nitsuja wrote:

I notice you have Volume Envelope Height Reading on, which is so likely to make playback unreliable that the emulator possibly shouldn't even allow anyone to start recording with it on.

Alright .. I'll re-record everything without this setting then. At least this part of the pre-run isn't hard to do :)

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