Isn't there a rule on TASvideos stating that the game has to finish the game by the credits running or something like that? If that's so, then that could be a major influence on the way the run is handled.
I'm hoping that it'll continue regardless of what path chosen, but that's just a selfish wish. :P
(Nice progress thus far, btw.)
Joined: 4/11/2006
Posts: 487
Location: North of Russia :[
Even though I'd vote for ending on certificate, I understand that it's wrong. It's like making 100% run of game, and having got all items and revealed whole map stop before the last boss `^^
With what, ending at certificate or ending at credits?
I think that, because Pokemon are like items in an RPG, it should be a "100% run" in that it gets all Pokemon, but not necessarily all items.
Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 93
Location: The Netherlands
When randomly browsing the TAS forums, I couldn't help but notice the link in Primo's sig leading to this topic. I've had plans for doing a 'Catch them all' speedrun myself and I worked out the entire route (although it can be tweaked a lot, still).
I'm currently working on a Pokemon Blue normal run with the disappearing Snorlax glitch and after that, I can finally start my 100%. It will be little different because the amount of Luck I'd need for certain Pokemon (e.g. Chansey) would be hazardous for my health and sanity, I suppose. :3
Note that this isn't TAS, but it should still be helpful for ideas. So if anyone want to few my route, just gimme a call.
Also, first post on the forum. ^_~
Well, if it's not a TAS, then that means you'll have no luck at all. So the route must be very different. The TAS route takes too much luck. And keep in mind that you'll want to use the experience overflow glitch for many pokemon.
On the non-tas run, when you are in an area with a really hard to find pokemon, you'll save and start a new segment before looking for it?
I think that would be waaay too tedious. Hell, to this day I STILL havent caught a Tauros in the safari zone. bastards always get away (sorry for the colorful language, I have pent up rage about Safari Zones ;) )
On topic:
I watched the last WIP and was extremely impressed, and look forward to when primorial#soup (or anyone else) continues it. I do think reaching indigo plateu (iirc the place where you can fly to and from) and then going to get the certificate would be the best/fastest way to go, but it has been a while since I have played so my memory may be dusty.
adelikat wrote:
I very much agree with this post.
Bobmario511 wrote:
Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.
Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 93
Location: The Netherlands
Blaise wrote:
On the non-tas run, when you are in an area with a really hard to find pokemon, you'll save and start a new segment before looking for it?
That is exactly it. I gotta say, though, that I chose to just Mew glitch Chansey from the Butterfree guy.
Now, with the newly discovered Snorlax skip, I can get the Super Rod earlier and most important of all, It saves time not visiting Rock Tunnel, gotta implement that in my route (I still need to visit that route for Voltorb, Magnemite, Zapdos and few Water Pokemon I need to fish for).
I feel I need to optimise the route more so that I can level up lots of Pokemon at the same time (I need to have the Nido, Mew and Abra in my team most of the time) so I can only deposit 3 each time. Oh well, I'll figure it out. =P
I'm at work now anyway, so I have enough time. >_>
Oh, btw, for the Safari Pokemon, I will Surf next to Seafoam Islands to trigger them, then catch a few Pokes in the cave (not Articuno though).
Edit: I feel stupid. I just read a part of the TAS and deleting Pokes seems to be the way to go.
I do think reaching indigo plateu (iirc the place where you can fly to and from) and then going to get the certificate would be the best/fastest way to go, but it has been a while since I have played so my memory may be dusty.
I think it would be faster to fly to Celadon first. However, I think there are some pokemon best caught in Victory Road (I.E. Machoke, Golbat, etc.) so it's a little moot.
Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
Ok, I'm digging this one out. I have no idea if Primo is still working on this, but I think it's far too interesting a project to waste. Hopefully he is! In an attempt to try and inject some interest back into this project I've thrown a route together. Words cannot describe just how incomplete this route is. At the bottom of the document I've listed the many things that need to be taken into consideration. If Primo has given up on this project I'd be interested in [tentatively] looking at it [/tentatively] if people were still interested, but if Primo is still working on this then that is awesome!
First time ever FileFront worked for me...
I'm glad someone is going to retake this project. It saddens me that this thread has been inactive for more than one year and half of it is about getting or not getting a stupid diploma.
I've just started reading your route. You wrote:
"* travel through viridian forest
* glitch nidoking
* exp underflow to lvl 100
* buy 5 pokeballs
* skip boulder badge"
IIRC you can only do trainer-fly in Viridian Forest on the Yellow version, also, I believe that it's better not to skip boulder badge, because I think since this would be an 100% run you should get all badges. And the extra money would also be good.
I think you should contact primorial#soup and ask him the details of the route he had planned, this should help you out.
Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
Ah, I forgot that that trainer is a yellow addition, hmm I'll need to think of something else. Also, a 151 run shouldn't be confused with a 100% run. The goal of the run is to catch all 151 pokemon before defeating the elite four, so essentially it is within the same parameters as the any% run but all pokemon are caught. Naming it a 100% makes the goals quite unclear (e.g why not collect all HMs, TMs blah, blah, blah...) This run wouldn't collect the certificate as it really isn't that impressive nor can it be called any sort of ending. The run would finish with Oak's rating after the elite four. If anyone really wanted to see the certificate then they could simply fly to Celadon after the input has ended and see it for themselves. On this note the ZZAZZ glitch wouldn't be used either since gia's run proved that you can technically use it to complete the pokedex for you, it'd be very arbitrary to use it otherwise.
It's interesting you bring this up, because over the last couple months I've been considering starting up a 151 Pokemon run of my own, in which route planning would've involved creating a program which would determine the Trainer/Fly results for any base pokemon, and then running much of the wild Pokemon encounter list through it, followed up by a LOT of cost analysis tests to determine the quickest method of obtaining Pokemon off the main route.
The biggest thing that was holding me back is awaiting the extent of the ZZAZZ glitch's nuances to be known - initially I would've thought it to not help and possibly even hold back progress, but recent developments have made me question that. You might want to wait a bit until analysis of the glitch has been completed more thoroughly, and possibly integrating it into the route, as long as it doesn't muck up the Pokedex or anything of that nature.
(EDIT: Yeah, maybe I should've read the comments first. =P If ZZAZZ can just glitch in the whole Pokedex, it'd defeat the purpose of the run, and thus it's probably better off to outlaw it completely.)
I also took a quick look at your initial route, and while not a whole lot is immediately jumping out at me, the Power Plant section is; I remember distinctly my tests of simply walking through it without fighting any battles taking on the order of 2-2 1/2 minutes to do so. Even going in far enough to pick up the Electrode might not make going far enough through to encounter Zapdos be more time effective than simply Trainer/Flying him and simply catching everything else near the entrance.
As for the "Dratini problem", you're almost certainly going to need to Trainer/Fly Dragonite, going by the amount of Rare Candies you'll need to feed a Lv30 Dragonair to get Dragonite, it's going to take a good minute and a half plus to do so. I'm not nearly as certain about Dragonair, however - you'd need to do more testing to determine that.
In any case, however, if you're going through with this run, I'll be cheering you on, even if I may not actually post in this topic much. =P
@mukki
OK, I get it now. You'll only do a "complete pokedex" run.
Usually, 100% runs in RPGs means completing the main quest and all the sidequests. In pokemon's case, the main quest would be getting all badges and defeat the E4 and the only sidequest is completing the pokedex. Getting all items is unnecessary IMO. I just thought that since getting 151 pokes is a planning nightmare, you'd go for a 100% right away. Still, don't you think the money from Brock may save some trips to the shop? I totally agree with you on not getting the certificate and not using ZZAZZ.
In your route:
"Nidoking will be the pokemon of choice throughout this run, so another will have to take the poison (unless status conditions such poisoning a poison type, freezing an ice type, burning a fire type fall under the 1/256 accuracy glitch? I don't know I've never tried...)"
I guess you're referring to the 1/256 miss glitch, where all moves in the game, even the ones that were supposed to always hit have a slight chance of missing. If you try to poison a poison-type, the chance of success is an exact 0%. Also, bear in mind that entering a building cancels WtW, so instead of depositing Nidoking, you'd have to make it faint beforehand if you want another one to take the poison.
I have some suggestions:
1. I don't know much about missingnos, but a friend of mine reported that he caught one and it evolved to kangaskhan, could this save some time?
2. Manipulate your lvl100 poke to have a special that corresponds to a high hex, so you can let ditto transform when you catch it.
3. I'm 90% sure that in-game trades can do the name thingy glitch. It should be faster than going to the old man.
4. About the Dratini problem, you could catch a high level Mewtwo and use it to kill other high level pokemon so that Dratini gained exp.
5. I think Exp. All can be used in the E4, but only if you have 2 pokes, have more and the messages will take forever.
Can't wait to see WIPs from you. ^_^
hold on, zzazz gives full pokedex? my glitch run does not use zzazz just in case.
zzazz may give all badges (or most) if you manipulate the memory, zzazz MAY change your pokedex (not sure, when you play with the boxes you may change the pokedex, p4wn3r you may want to check it) but it wont complete it.
Well, if it can 'change' your pokedex, with careful application it might 'finish' it. Just like how you arbitrarily edit memory with your pokemon yellow run.
Also glad to see this idea is getting a little more thought. :)
The party and/or box menu give access of sizeof(pokemon-struct) at a time, as such I doubt it's possible to complete the dex but it's possible to complete a chunk, although I'll shut up about it since I haven't tried anyway.
There are two options, break the party menu and switch pokemon to overwrite data. Unlikely, save glitch broke the party counter for this, zzazz doesn't.
The second way is doing this from the box menu, zzazz already does to overwrite the item counter and since the pokemon struct is bigger than a byte it should be overwriting part or all of the dex already (its right before the item counter).
Now I had easy access to empty data which is full of FFs that wouldnt crash the game when switched, this completes the dex. zzazz will most likely not have this, so it depends on the runner's skill how much pokedex they complete.
Anyway, the first step would be doing this since some/anything you caught previously would get overwritten.
EDIT: Ok found and checked my memory map, the 10th pokemon covers the owned and seen pokedexes on their entirety as well as the item counter, the first and second items and the item type of the third item. Whatever you put on that spot will overwrite the dex.
Out of the whole pokemon this data of the pokemon or "supposed" pokemon would cover the owned pokedex:
SpecieA, SpecieB, HP, Status, Type1, Type2, Moves 1234, OT Id, Experience, HP EV
The more bits 1 you get there the more pokedex will get completed.
A final possible way to edit the dex is by changing the nickname of your 7th and 8th pokemon on your party (this is assuming you can), again the more 1s you get there the more pokedex would be completed. If name rater uses the party counter it won't be possible through him. A possibility would be by catching a wild pokemon and/or using the boxes to withdraw a 7th/8th pokemon.
Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 93
Location: The Netherlands
Uh oh. I'd better get on with my run. :/
I've restarted my Blue 100% Pokedex run since I accidently deleted a segment of it, but now that I've looked through the route again, I've found timesavers I didn't use in my run before, so it's alright I guess.
Of course, normal 100% needs a different route then TAS'd so I can problaby not help you.
A complete pokedex non-TAS speedrun?
Don't you think it might have an excessive amount of segments?
If you do it, you'll get my maximum respect, it'll require a lot of luck to get the right DVs to trigger some pokemon. Glitching 100+ masterballs is mandatory IMO. I remember having to reload a savestate around 60 times when I was trying to catch Mewtwo without one, and he was in red health and asleep. And there are those Safari Zone pokemon, that always run away...
