What I mean is what is the way into to dondago's that the game makers intended you to use, and how long does that take? Do you get some item that lets you pull the bomb plants, I can't remember?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
goron bracelets?
you need to go in goron city, do some fire torch stuff, get into durania's room, play Saria's song, and watch through a very long cutscene of Durania dancing. I think it's long enough to make it not worth it, but I am not sure. Getting bombchu's allows access to dodongo's very fast, and then lets bomb hovering get to the bomb bag fast.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Criminey! I had completely forgotten you had showed me this. The biggest question is can it successfully be used to good measure in the new any%? Heck, can it be used for any of the tricks that you postulated in the first place?
I'm sure the skipping cutscenes potential is what this trick has the most to add for any%... as would passing through damaging barriers, like, say, the ganon time trials barrier? ^^
I myself am a very bad individual to be given the basics of a trick, and figure out a massively useful application on my own. (I suck like that.) but if anyone can get it to do one of the tricks theorized, getting faore's wind (or any other spell; does it work with any other spell?) might be very beneficial.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
so instead of copy pasting it anytime someone asks about it, just look here. I'll be updating it every time a route change is made. If you forget the link, look in my homepage profile, it's listed under my "contributions" section near the top.
Doing Dodongo's w/ bracelet is slow as hell because you don't have early bombchu and you have to go to zelda, learn lullaby, get the letter form zelda, talk to the guard and listen to his long-ass speech, traverse sacred forest meadow, learn saria's song, go back to goron city, watch Darunia dance for 4 minutes... it's definitely not worth it. But thanks for the suggestion, its always good to know why we aren't doing things instead of assuming, because that is how potentialy faster routes can be overlooked.
So, I did some timing, I'm almost sure that 2a is faster, basically because 2b requires going from the exit point that epona is at after stealing it, to kokiri forest, and then going back to that point and getting on epona. That is 3 movements. The other one has 2, re don't recover ground. We go to kokiri and then to lonlon. 2a is faster.
Acryte, could you possibly upload a vid so I can gain greater understanding of it all, thanks. I'm still not sure if I'm thinking along the right lines of how this works.
I never figured this out, why couldn't we skip seeing zelda in the earlier versions, but now we can?
Seems like the macro planing is mostly taken care of. Is the graveyard warp to fairy the fastest way to get magic meter, not din's fire or anything like that?
This time around we should do the micro planning before the actual run is started. This is exactly where, when, and how many of each item should be picked up. Most noteably, bombs, for supersliding. If a super slide will save fraction of second it needs to be considered into the route. This is because you can pick up 5 bombs in less than 5 seconds. So figure out how many bombs you can get along the way and how many superslides will save time. Then we might have to weigh the cost of getting some bombs to the time saved from super sliding.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
I never figured this out, why couldn't we skip seeing zelda in the earlier versions, but now we can?
The Lullaby is needed to obtain the magic meter from the Great Fairy. Magic fuels Light Arrows, which, of course, are needed to stun Ganondorf.
With Reverse BA, we can now use item manipulation (namely, the Poacher's Saw) to obtain the Lullaby as well as other warp songs. Of course, we still need magic, which is why we use the Nocturne of Shadow (also obtained via manipulation) to warp to a location near the Great Fairy. Prior to RBA, the only way to learn the Lullaby was from Impa in the Hyrule Castle Courtyard.
Spider-Waffle wrote:
Seems like the macro planing is mostly taken care of.
You guys sure got it done fast. I can't find any possible improvements to be made to the current route.
Spider-Waffle wrote:
Is the graveyard warp to fairy the fastest way to get magic meter, not din's fire or anything like that?
I believe so. The only other option is through the Lost Woods and Goron City, but I highly doubt that would be faster considering that we're traveling all the way from Gerudo Valley.
Spider-Waffle wrote:
This time around we should do the micro planning before the actual run is started. This is exactly where, when, and how many of each item should be picked up. Most noteably, bombs, for supersliding. If a super slide will save fraction of second it needs to be considered into the route. This is because you can pick up 5 bombs in less than 5 seconds. So figure out how many bombs you can get along the way and how many superslides will save time. Then we might have to weigh the cost of getting some bombs to the time saved from super sliding.
I agree. Guano's previous runs didn't take advantage of superslides nearly enough. For example, he could have superslid when exiting Kakariko Village to Hyrule Field after obtaining the bottle. It takes around four seconds to set up a superslide, so this is something to keep in mind when evaluating tradeoffs. It is very difficult to plan everything out to the tiniest detail, as there are always bound to be unexpected circumstances, but I think we can get a good estimate of the number of bombs needed.
Another thing to investigate would be the chuko gathering to get the bottle. People were saying you could hit them to make them run to where you want them or make them stay put or something. It seemed like there was at least one that ran way far away. Might want to do some super slides for this too.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Spider-Waffle wrote:
This time around we should do the micro planning before the actual run is started. This is exactly where, when, and how many of each item should be picked up. Most noteably, bombs, for supersliding. If a super slide will save fraction of second it needs to be considered into the route. This is because you can pick up 5 bombs in less than 5 seconds. So figure out how many bombs you can get along the way and how many superslides will save time. Then we might have to weigh the cost of getting some bombs to the time saved from super sliding.
I'm all for this. MM has an any% route that has every micro detail of what to do at what exact point (use 3 bombs to superslide to here, collect 10 arrows, manipulate 5 rupees, etc. etc.) of which you speak, I see no reason why that same can't be done here.
There are some spots in the MM run where it seems like Mukki is supersliding more than he needs to, wasting boms and time, wheras other times he has a perfect ratio. I agree more bombs should be manipulated, more SS's done, and everything planned out so that at the end Link has zero bombs, and each one was used effectively. with one published run, and another near finished run, I'm sure this could be done.
mwl wrote:
You guys sure got it done fast. I can't find any possible improvements to be made to the current route.
Sure did. It was mostly in figuring out that 2a vs. 2b path. But even that was easy to figure out, took us less than a day's worth.
Spider-Waffle wrote:
Another thing to investigate would be the chuko gathering to get the bottle. People were saying you could hit them to make them run to where you want them or make them stay put or something. It seemed like there was at least one that ran way far away. Might want to do some super slides for this too.
Yes, but it would be very tricky in managing where 8+ cuccoos end up after you attack them. Don't know about superslides in this one, although it's worth considering.
Well I think the only part where this comes up is when you've got the three chukos near the beggining and the other five have been delivered. Here you can hit the chuko you droped near the ramp, and hit the one in the box, and then superslide to the one far back by the tree. Then maybe the other two will run up the ramp while your getting the one by the tree.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
I agree w/ hitting cuccos. I do the same thing in Minish cap, etc. It's a great tactic since they run in a ptryy straight line after getting hit... though it will be hard to get frame perfect results do to the randomness over time and hard to predict movements. Also remember you have a slingshot, you can shoot them w/out having to go all the way over to them.
AKA - Its simple really, you empty a bottle and fill it again to change things in the inventory. Here's a really old vid I made about it.
Oh, and please tell me guano plans to finish the current run (It will look waay cooler in the adult section)
FIERCE I just saw your shiek vid. "You must finish the forest temple to perform bottle adventure for light arrows making it impossible to skip all adult temples." Heh.
Are we absolutely positive that there is no possible way we can reach the bombchus in Kakariko Well? This is probably the last barrier from way back that hasn't yet been overcome. Comicalflop, you said Acryte was only a "few centimeters" from succeeding?
MWL... I have managed to get through a wall w/ wallclipping and into the water behind it.... HERE IS THE LAMEST PART... It took about 30 seconds to do from entering the temple, but... it requires lowering the water.... and if you lower the water, you can't get to the chest... DAMNIT.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Yes. During the route planning we did, we timed how long it took to superslide to different areas, and experiemtned with well early, and got farter than anyone else. Acryte tested getting to that chest with the bombchus in the area.
He was able to:
-use enemies to clip into the walls
-swim underneath the level
-clip into the wall when the water level was low
-Almost reached where he needed to go when the water level was low
After an hour or so, he concluded that it could not be done, the water level was just not the right height for him to swim underneath walls and get to where he needed to be. He got very close though. I'm fully willing to not let the idea be tossed, if anyone wants to give a stab at it, I'm sure Acryte could share how he did it, and someone could try and make it work.
Here is how far I can get w/ lowered water level.
With the normal waterlevel I did sword glitch w/ that green bubble and managed to get all the way to like... about half an ingame foot from being able to backflip through the ceiling and out of bounds, but here is the thing... it takes a ton of time for that bubble to circle around, and that damn bubble is just a tiny bit TOO low for you to take it high enough to get over the wall. This cannot be done.
The likelike cannot be used to get through wall, I have tried for hours.
The damn bridge in the lower section has a part of the celing that is vulnerable and you can go through to probably get up into the water... here is the thing... you can't get up there, and you don't have enough force to get through it w/out either levitation or bombhovering closer. I have tried a ton.
Well, I don't think we really need them, its a detour to get it, and we need to have bugs in our bottle... plus, we don't need to do BA 2 times... BUT...
Use BA to get back from spirit w/ bombhover and you can do early spirit in a SS if you use BA... but I guess it's not even worth it anyways if yopu are using BA since it's all skipped using BA anyways, but at least BA SS can have a very similar route and can even go sub 2:30.
Could it be faster to get bombchus with reverse BA instead of going to spirit temple?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Could it be faster to get bombchus or bombs with reverse BA instead of going to spirit temple?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
