Post by Deep_Loner

Posted: 4/28/2007 1:48 AM

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hero_of_the_day

Player (89)

Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States

Saturn, you were asked to post the wip because it would help improve our runs. You have gotten the benefit of studying JXQ's run and my run, and you have learned many things from them. We do not have the benefit of studying your run, which may give you some sort of strategic edge. Like I have said before, I will always share my work because I want the best run to be made even if I am not the author. If you are going to be selfish and not post your supposedly superior techniques, it is the viewers who get hurt in the end. You are my friend btw, so quit treating me like I am your enemy.

They're off to find the hero of the day...

Posted: 4/28/2007 2:03 AM

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moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away

Saturn wrote:

Also moozooh, you didn't answer my question why you are afraid to work on Ceres having just the best opportunity in the test run. What is the reason to not analyze it for improvements like you do in Zebes? If you decided to ignore me all of a sudden, oh well. I'm just curious, you know.

I have said it to you multiple times that I left Ceres for later for a number of valid (for me) reasons. 1. I'm doing a test run to gather all the possible improvements and implement them in the full run. But, with Ceres I will fail to get any further help in optimizing it, anyway, so I will have to do it entirely on my own. It doesn't scare me, but it requires a lot of time and can easily kill my motivation. If I will have a complete run by then, it will serve as an additional motivator, not counting greater experience I will have by that point. 2. If Snes9x v1.51 gets released by the moment I start my full run, I will definitely make my run on it. Having a perfect Ceres would be a waste of time in that case, because the emulators have different enough timing to cause desyncs. 3. I will optimize Ceres as I have already optimized Zebes. I repeat, it didn't scare me, it just was a great pain in the ass I didn't want to deal with at that moment. Also, I don't distrust your numbers, I have always trusted in your accomplishments. But you know my ability to spot improvements when it comes to actual TASing, so if I consider a certain trick of mine improvable, I might have reasons for doing so. Whether I succeed in improving it is another question, but again, you know my dedication. Looking forward to your WIP.

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 4/28/2007 2:17 AM

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Vatchern

Player (86)

Joined: 3/8/2005
Posts: 973
Location: Newfoundland, Canada

Since I finally been able to load this mess. JXQ, why do you even bother comming to this forum anymore? It seems like 1/3 or 1/2 of your post are attacks at Phil either direct or indirect. You say buy him a dictionary, I see nothing wrong in his english. I understand his words. If you can't, maybe you are the one who should get a dictionary. Aside from that, starting a Dictionary fund? Making fun of someone about their english? What are you in grade 6? Seriously, go back to elementary school before visiting here again and stop bothering us with these childish acts.

http://tasvideos.org/Vatchern.html

Posted: 4/28/2007 2:20 AM

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JXQ

Experienced player (761)

Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132

Vatchern, you are the biggest Phil dickrider on this planet. Don't expect me to take anything you say on this subject seriously.

<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)

Posted: 4/28/2007 3:05 AM

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mmbossman

Experienced player (828)

Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong

Can someone please lock this now? I've seen enough examples of pride in this thread to know I shouldn't be worried anymore about why I make a run, or what other people think of it, since so many more people seem to have bigger egos than I'll ever have from making movies out of video games.

Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page

Posted: 4/28/2007 5:08 AM

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meepers

Player (35)

Joined: 12/18/2005
Posts: 250

Vatchern wrote:

Since I finally been able to load this mess. JXQ, why do you even bother comming to this forum anymore? It seems like 1/3 or 1/2 of your post are attacks at Phil either direct or indirect. You say buy him a dictionary, I see nothing wrong in his english. I understand his words. If you can't, maybe you are the one who should get a dictionary. Aside from that, starting a Dictionary fund? Making fun of someone about their english? What are you in grade 6? Seriously, go back to elementary school before visiting here again and stop bothering us with these childish acts.

I took the liberty to point out some faults since it seems you are rather confident in your command of English.

Vatchern wrote:

Since I [am] finally ~~been~~ able to load this mess(topic?)[......] JXQ, why do you even bother comming to this forum anymore? It seems like 1/3 or 1/2 of your post are either direct or indirect attacks at Phil. You say, "buy him a dictionary", but I see nothing wrong [with] in his english. I understand [what he says] ~~his words~~. If you can't, [then] maybe you are the one who should get a dictionary. Aside from that, starting a [d]ictionary fund? Making fun of someone [because of] ~~about~~ their english? ~~What~~ Are you in ~~grade 6~~ sixth grade? Seriously, go back to elementary school before coming back ~~visiting~~ here ~~again~~ and ~~stop~~ bothering us with these childish acts.

Edit: BoltR pointed out the naming convention/rule of grammar that fractions must be written as fractions if they're not at the beginning of a sentence.

我々を待ち受けなさい。

Posted: 4/28/2007 6:58 AM

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Randil

Skilled player (1827)

Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden

Guys, I really don't think it's nice to point out if someone's English has flaws and then shove it in their face. That's both irrelevant to this thread and, actually, pretty mean. Please focus on what we're actually discussing here. Oh, and please don't point out any spelling/grammatical errors in this post if you find any. :P

My own page on this site.

Posted: 4/28/2007 8:57 AM

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Cardboard

Skilled player (1605)

Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden

I want to throw a stone as well. Phil, what some people might mean when they say that you play for ego rather than for the common good of the community is that MANY other users (Not all users though) write "At frame xx'xxx, you did blabla. Wouldn't it have been faster to do blobleblu? Still voting yes though/Holding my vote until you can explain this" in a random submission when spotting an improvement. You, on the other hand, write "Obvious mistakes, voting no / meh" and then aim for improving the movies yourself, which is totally stupid in my mind, since that will take you at least 3 - 5 weeks, and it would (hopefully) only have taken the author 1 - 2 days to hex-edit it if you would have told them about it. This behaviour is confusing me, and makes me believe that you are playing for pride and ego, rather than for a greater good. Then again, keeping improvements hidden from others maybe is your way of helping. In a distant, twisted Pinhead-kind-of-logic, I might be able to see how that helps. Not now, however. Prinsesstårta.

Warp wrote:

omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!

Posted: 4/28/2007 9:01 AM

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Saturn

Player (206)

Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451

hero of the day wrote:

You have gotten the benefit of studying JXQ's run and my run, and you have learned many things from them.

That statement is not completely true: Yes, I have learned exactly 1 (for my run) useful trick in each of your TASes. In your's the by far most valuable Red Brinstar Shaft shortcut, which as you might notice, I named the "Hero Red Shaft" for some reason, and in JXQ's the catnap jump, which I could probably notice before by just looking more carefully on catnaps movies. Except of that there was nothing else, from which I could benefit from your runs at all. It's still a very worthful information of course, and I really thank you guys for that, but it's just not the way you have said it before. And didn't I get you very valuable information back as well? The Draygon quick kill without the need of ammo, which saved especially in your run many many seconds, the (admittedly not public, but I can show PMs to prove) many hints for JXQ to improve his 100% run, like trying to avoid using the shinespark except if it's unavoidably necessary because of it's slow crash cooldown etc. You all had much more benefit from my tricks in your runs than I did from yours, this is just unarguable true, isn't it?

hero of the day wrote:

If you are going to be selfish and not post your supposedly superior techniques, it is the viewers who get hurt in the end.

Only the fellow SM TASers maybe, but definitely not the other viewers. I know it's not the finest way like I do it, and I'm sorry, but there is a reason for all this: Working all day, I don't have much freetime to TAS, and I need very much motivation to continue this very difficult project in the quality I did so far. This motivation I only have by knowing I can show a new and unique run. If I would share all of my work now, it would get copied in no time, and since you apparently have more time to TAS than me, you would finish your runs much faster than I would, and that way there wouldn't be any reason for me to continue my run at all. I want to save you all from me cancelling my run and thus miss a epic on this site (has nothing to do with being selfish or anything, just a fact) so I just have to do it like that in order to keep my motivation alive. I hope you can understand. If you have no problem that your tricks get copied and you still can keep your motivation to TAS no matter what, thats of course good for you. Sadly I can't do it that way. To sum everything up, there is nothing unfair I did to anybody. I shared countless of useful tricks over the years with you guys and got only a few back, so I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

hero of the day wrote:

You are my friend btw, so quit treating me like I am your enemy.

You are ok hero, I know. And I never treated you as a enemy. I'm sorry if it seemed so to you. And regarding JXQ and his dictionary/submission obsoletion fund jokes, indeed a kindergarten. Didn't expect that from a 25 year old guy. I would like to hear how you would speak for example german instead.

See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun

Posted: 4/28/2007 9:19 AM

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hero_of_the_day

Player (89)

Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States

Yes Saturn, you did indeed help me with the draygon portion of my run. In fact I learned many things from you. You know more about the game than me, that is why you only found a couple areas of my run in which you learned something new. I understand your position. If you want to keep some stuff undercover, I won't argue about it anymore.

They're off to find the hero of the day...

Posted: 4/28/2007 2:18 PM

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JXQ

Experienced player (761)

Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132

I make an exception with Phil's English ever since he treated other members like idiots for not understanding what HE says. This post was the breaking point. It was edited to say "Maybe I must draw a picture", because I honestly couldn't figure out exactly what he was trying to say. He replaced "my" with "your" or some extreme error. So now I'm the idiot because I can't decipher his badly translated/worded posts? I also find it funny that when Phil and I have an argument, people come out of the woodwork to say that it's my doing, and that Phil's just "retaliating" (Vatchern). See there's a history as to why I don't respect Phil, and everyone seems to forget it whenever we argue. I don't respect him, I never will, and I don't have a problem repeating that fact. It will piss off some people, it will give some people some laughs, and it will make me a target for being called immature. That's fine, I see all the consequences. It's just words on a website at the end of the day. Phil isn't going to care what I say about him, obviously, because he hasn't stopped being a selfish ass since I started checking him, and I'm not going to care what he says about me because 90% of it is nonsense and "I know you are but what am I". And Saturn, of course I can't speak in German. If I tried, I'm not going to fault the listener for not understanding what I'm saying. I also don't try argue with others in it.

<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)

Posted: 4/28/2007 2:47 PM

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moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away

Saturn wrote:

If I would share all of my work now, it would get copied in no time, and since you apparently have more time to TAS than me, you would finish your runs much faster than I would, and that way there wouldn't be any reason for me to continue my run at all. I want to save you all from me cancelling my run and thus miss a epic on this site (has nothing to do with being selfish or anything, just a fact) so I just have to do it like that in order to keep my motivation alive.

Well, I'm sorry to hurt your motivation further, but we're slowly, bit by bit, little by little, discovering more and more timesavers you've likely used in your run, and even those you likely haven't. We already have the way to improve JXQ's Torizo fight by 12 frames, and I know it can be improved by a dozen more. So if we continue (and I know I will) methodically nailing every possible improvement, that can not only make your run less unique and surprising, but even obsolete before it will even have a chance to be finished. :\

Deep Loner wrote:

Not to mention that some of us are getting pretty sick and tired of all the bullshit being thrown around...

I can say I'm pretty entertained. :D

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 4/28/2007 3:21 PM

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CtrlAltDestroy

Active player (328)

Joined: 2/23/2005
Posts: 786

JXQ wrote:

See there's a history as to why I don't respect Phil, and everyone seems to forget it whenever we argue. I don't respect him, I never will, and I don't have a problem repeating that fact. It will piss off some people, it will give some people some laughs, and it will make me a target for being called immature. That's fine, I see all the consequences. It's just words on a website at the end of the day. Phil isn't going to care what I say about him, obviously, because he hasn't stopped being a selfish ass since I started checking him, and I'm not going to care what he says about me because 90% of it is nonsense and "I know you are but what am I".

It's not a problem that you disrespect Phil, but if you just keep posting about it, you're just as bad as he is. Nonconstructive disrespect is equally as pointless in any language. Anyway, I've been thinking a lot about this topic, and I think there's something to say about keeping your project under cover for the sake of surprise. While it's often the case that people will perform these runs to earn respect from the other members here or to gain credit and make a name for themselves, a huge motivator is watching jaws drop when people see the completed project. Although the other runners' intentions may be the best in the world when they nag you to release your WIP, it ultimately takes away from the final product. This isn't exactly "pride", it's just... one of the goals of the run. Many people argue that the primary goal of the runs on this site should be entertainment, and it's a simple fact that entertainment diminishes when you're watching something that no longer surprises you. Therefore, it's contrary to the run's purpose in the first place. It's kind of bothering me to see some of the people in this thread speaking as if they deserve to see the WIPs. Halo 3 will contain bugs. Lots of them. Does that mean it's Bungie's fault for not sending me a constant stream of beta copies so I could help them debug it? No, Bungie has their own team of paid beta testers, people who they have chosen on their own. If they choose to show nobody, it will have even more bugs, but that's their choice. I don't deserve to be in on it just because I theoretically have the ability to help them. I personally think that if there's a very popular game, like Super Metroid, and there are several runners continually finding improvements to it, Bisqwit should set up an invisible forum just for those runners so they can freely share their discoveries to approach perfection while keeping the entertainment value in tact for the rest of us (as well as their own motivation for continuing).

Posted: 4/28/2007 3:32 PM

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laughing_gas

Former player

Joined: 10/1/2006
Posts: 1102
Location: boot_camp

If someone's already a dick ... you have a right to stoop down to his level.

Borg Collective wrote:

Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.

Posted: 4/28/2007 3:45 PM

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Tombad

Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 380
Location: Finland

CtrlAltDestroy wrote:

Halo 3 will contain bugs. Lots of them. Does that mean it's Bungie's fault for not sending me a constant stream of beta copies so I could help them debug it? No, Bungie has their own team of paid beta testers, people who they have chosen on their own. If they choose to show nobody, it will have even more bugs, but that's their choice. I don't deserve to be in on it just because I theoretically have the ability to help them.

Well, not to derail the topic, but the analogy flawed on it's premise, because Bungie wants to keep their stuff hidden for added sales and it would be in their best interest (in regards to quality) to let everyone who is willing to beta test their game to do so. Combining millions of willing players with a team of testers you'd probably find more bugs than with only a team of professional testers. This is of course not feasible from economical standpoint (sales). IMHO a better analogy (if one is even needed that is) is an open-source project to develop The Best FPS Shooter Ever Made (tm). One (or multiple) members of the team just decide to keep whatever they're doing a secret in hopes of surprising everyone when they're done with whatever killer features they're developing and thus harm the team's integrity and possibly delay completion.

"Kids! Bringing about Armageddon can be dangerous. Do not attempt it in your home." ( Pratchett & Gaiman: Good Omens )

Posted: 4/28/2007 5:51 PM
(Edited: 4/28/2007 6:04 PM)

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Phil

Active player (411)

Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec

Cardboard wrote:

"Obvious mistakes, voting no / meh" and then aim for improving the movies yourself, which is totally stupid in my mind, since that will take you at least 3 - 5 weeks, and it would (hopefully) only have taken the author 1 - 2 days to hex-edit it if you would have told them about it. .

Telling there are errors is stupid? Voting No is stupid? And improving a movie is stupid? From your logic, we would have kept older flawed movies and no voting system. And no it wouldn't take 1-2 days. Also, why didn't you said that you were improving it, because that's about Bionic Commando , and where are the mistakes? So maybe someone could have done a better movie than you. The things are that You and JXQ are thowing rocks and you are worse.

JXQ wrote:

I make an exception with Phil's English ever since he treated other members like idiots for not understanding what HE says. This post was the breaking point. It was edited to say "Maybe I must draw a picture", because I honestly couldn't figure out exactly what he was trying to say. He replaced "my" with "your" or some extreme error. So now I'm the idiot because I can't decipher his badly translated/worded posts?

Wow, you are at the top of the most stupid guy on earth. I rememember we had a private discussion after that and it's end up "We are friends". You just prove to everybody that you are hypocrite. Btw, you are loser and hypocrite= A person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings.

2006-03-11, JXQ wrote:

So, I'm sorry for the way I've been posting, I hope you don't think I'm being sarcastic. One thing I should clarify is why I put that quote in my signature: I (along with most people on the board, I'm guessing) give those who don't have English as a first language or have trouble with English the benefit of the doubt. I think you can admit that the wording of your post I was confused about was, in fact, confusing. Since we were in the middle of an argument, maybe it seemed like I was just attacking you, but I genuinely didn't understand.

Hypocrite. Hypocrite.

2006-03-11, JXQ wrote:

Anyway, I'm sorry this has gotten so out of hand, and again I'm sorry for the way I've been posting.

So that sentence was pure lie. That's not what you thought.

JXQ wrote:

See there's a history as to why I don't respect Phil, and everyone seems to forget it whenever we argue. I don't respect him, I never will, and I don't have a problem repeating that fact.

Yes, it seems so. You fooled me. And when I think my judging rights were removed because of assface like you...

hero of the day wrote:

Phil, you seem like a reasonable guy. Can't you just forgive and forget about past grievances? I try to make friends with people, not enemies.

It's impossible. I did tried many times and it failed.

Posted: 4/28/2007 6:04 PM

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LagDotCom

Joined: 3/7/2006
Posts: 720
Location: UK

Phil, vous ne comprenez pas l'anglais tres bien. Aussi, vous n'ecrivez pas l'anglais tres bien. Pouvez-vous comprenez que vous interpréterez mal quelques choses? Quand cela se produit, vous faites alors une prétention basée sur ce malentendu. Puis, notre incapacité de lire votre anglais a comme conséquence plus d'interprétations fausses. Pouvez-vous comprenez? I hope that was clear enough. I had to resort to babelfish for some of the words I didn't know.

Voted NO for NO reason

Posted: 4/28/2007 6:07 PM

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Raiscan

Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom

Phil wrote:

And when I think my judging rights were removed because of assface like you...

...you want to jump around and give everyone a hug? Play nice. From my point of view you seem intent of accusing the world. Even when people say sorry.

<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs

Posted: 4/28/2007 6:08 PM
(Edited: 4/28/2007 7:04 PM)

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Phil

Active player (411)

Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec

Lagdotcom: I have no lesson to receive from a "member" of JXQ's orgy. Edit:

Raiscan wrote:

...you want to jump around and give everyone a hug? Play nice. From my point of view you seem intent of accusing the world. Even when people say sorry.

What do you mean? No one said sorry here.

Posted: 4/28/2007 6:54 PM

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Maximus

Emulator Coder, Former player

Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 563
Location: Toronto, Ontario

So .... what precisely is a "pride" movie? Bashing each other doesn't really address the question at hand. Flame me if you like, but knocking someone's ability to write eloquently in English is kind of childish. If everyone wants to argue for the sake of arguing, that's one thing ... but it's detrimental to the community at large when it's affecting other members from even wanting to participate as a result.

TAS Movie Editor v0-12-1 http://sourceforge.net/projects/tas-editor

Posted: 4/28/2007 7:06 PM

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