While most classic adventure games would probably not be worth TASing because the only interesting thing about them would be the speed of the typing, I think this one would be an exception. Technically, it's an adventure RPG, so quite a bit of luck goes into running the game. If everything has a non-zero chance of happening at any level, then you could conceivably speed through the game really fast.
Tests seem to say that "hiden goseke" doesn't work unless you heard it said, which may mean you have to fight Fred.
Possible route:
Start game
choose thief
stats (possibly don't need any)
speed up game to fastest speed
skip sheriff's text
leave town
throw rock at nest
knock on healer's house
give ring
drink two healing potions
go to spitting plants
throw rock
go to meep's place
ask about green fur
go to mushroom ring
get mushrooms
go to dryad
yes
yes
get acorn
wait until sunset (shouldn't be long)
go to mushroom ring
get dust
go to erana's peace
get flowers
sleep
go to healer's
get dispel potion
go to mountain
pick lock
open door
"hiden goseke" (or fight fred)
sneak past minotaur and climb over wall
brigand's fortress
throw dispel potion
go to castle
win
If this run is possible, it would be incredibly interesting to people who have played the game because of how much is skipped. QFG is not quite supported on Bisqwit's DOSBOX yet, but it's not too early to start planning.
I have been a big fan of the Quest For Glory series for a long time. I've played most of them several times. I haven't played QFG1(original) all the way through though. Usually I start it then think "wow this sucks" and play the newer version. I do think a run would be rather interesting. Especially with all the cheesy humor that QFG has. I think I might actually go and play the original through just to see what it offers. The route you have planned is pretty similar to the one I always take in QFG1 (newer). I really hope this run pans out. I would love to see it :)
While there might be some repetition if any stats need to be built up (it would be great if stats aren't required), It sounds liek a very interesting challenge on how low your stats can be to finish this game, and the shortest possible way to beat it. Let's hope there's some interesting glitches in this one.
Quest for Glory 2 is also a great choice, though it may be a bit too long
arkiandruski wrote:
While most classic adventure games would probably not be worth TASing because the only interesting thing about them would be the speed of the typing
I think other factors, like route planning, cutting corners, and choosing the shortest word/phrase, etc possible would also make adventure game runs interesting. I think some adventure games are more interesting to watch than some people give credit, especially given how short most parser adventures are. Not that adventure games should take precedence over more action oriented games...
This game NEEDS a TAS. However, that said, I believe that ALL quests should be done, so you are a full hero (free Banard, Elsa, and rid Baba Yaga) to get the full end. Testing shows this can be done by "n game" day 2.
I've already done some testing, and 35 appears to be the "magic number." It's the climb skill required to scale the wall of the town, or to grab the spore.
It's the sneak skill required to grab the kobold's key
I believe the singular most spectacular part of this game will be route planning. The biggest difficulty is getting the money for the undead unguent to perform Baba Yagas first task.
Additionally, it is possible to beat the game without ever getting in a single fight, although difficult
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Funny, I was just checking this board for exactly this subject. I was thinking it might be a fun game to try for my first TAS.
arkiandruski: Does just saving Elsa win the game? I thought you had to beat Baba Yaga? Also, can you take the back route into the brigands' fortress before encountering the Kobold? Don't you have to get the note in the bar to trigger Otto's meeting?
DarkKobold: It would be interesting to see a 100% run of the game (scoring all possible points), but I don't know how fun it'd be for non-fans.
Is there any compelling reason to use the EGA text-parser version of this game over the MUCH better looking VGA version?
Well, I'm not sure how the DOSBOX emulator will work once it's out, but it might not have mouse support at first, making QFG1 the best choice simply because you aren't required to use a mouse. I do like the remake better, though.
As for your other questions, no you do not need to defeat Baba Yaga. Try it for yourself. Go to the castle right after dealing with the brigands. The game will end.
The back route might be better. If it seems either way will be a forced fight, which just might be the case, then a string of brigands could possibly be easier to defeat than Fred. I'm not sure if I can sneak past the minotaur after that, though.
The reason that you don't have to get the note is you can still enter the brigand fortress without hearing that conversation. It's mostly meant to give hints and provide the fighter with the key.
I don't encounter the Kobold in my run anyways. I don't even go near the cave where he is except to pick flowers.
actually, I've done semi-test runs of this game, and there is good info on the SDA forum.
First and foremost, you can trigger the note in the bar to be the meeting between the brigand and Bruno if you free Barnard before noon on the first day.
Getting into 2 goblin fights allows you to rest your way to night easier.
You do NOT need to do the first Baba Yaga quest to use the mirror on her. I think that doing the first two is required for fastest time, and the 3rd part is so fast, that it is worth doing to 'fully' complete the game. Grab the mirror, go to BY, and defeat her.
All this can be done by noon on the 2nd day. Fully tested.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
So, just a random thought, but probably not possible under current emulators...:
Quest for Glory 1
Quest for Glory 2...using the character made from QFG1
Quest for Glory 3...using the character made from QFG2...which was from QFG1
Quest for Glory 4...using the character made from QFG3...which was from QFG2...which was from QFG1
Quest for Glory 5...using the character made from QFG4...which was from QFG3...which was from QFG2...which was from QFG1
So it would be the entire Quest for Glory series done using the same character!
Whatcha think?
I am just a silhouette, a silhouette of a memory of a solitary night .. nothing more.
I see two reasons why not to do this:
1) Gameplay-wise this just means that you get to start the latter four games with a stronger character than you "deserve"; this is artificially making the game easier via dirty SRAM, which is generally frowned-on.
2) It locks you into a single class for the entire series (with an optional switch out to Paladin at two points), when some classes could be better-suited to specific games than others.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
1) Gameplay-wise this just means that you get to start the latter four games with a stronger character than you "deserve"; this is artificially making the game easier via dirty SRAM, which is generally frowned-on.
If they do straight imports, I don't think this will be the case. A speedrun of the three games is going to forgo as much training as possible. It's possible to skip a large portion of QFG 1. The fastest way through QFG 2 is to sleep through the game and only come out when needed. That's a lot of stat building right off the bat that's dropped, and considering the base line characters improve their stats as the games progress, it's very possible that the premade characters could be better than your import. I've had that happen to me before.
Stats really don't matter for the majority of the main puzzles in the QFG games. They are really just adventure games with RPG elements tacked on. A few puzzles require a minimum stat to perform, and thus, if the character were weaker from a previous game, it would be more grinding. If the character were stronger in that stat, people would complain of dirty SRAM making it easier.
Plus, that would force someone wanting to obsolete QFG4 to replay only with someone elses SRAM, or redo all 3 previous runs.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
I was thinking this would be on the scope of a multi-game run, not each game being a run for that game. So if someone made, say QFG 4 by itself it would not be effected by the QsFG (Quest(s) For Glory) run.
Also, you are not locked into a particular class for the entire series. Between games you are allowed to switch classes.
I am just a silhouette, a silhouette of a memory of a solitary night .. nothing more.
My 2 cents on this?
It looks a bit ambitious and would rely on a good amount of luck in that the games in question DON'T CRASH (QfG 4's Error 52 being the infamous one)
I would still separate this from a single-game run, because while one specific class may work better for one specific game, there may be another class that works better for 3 of the games in the series.
...that, and I would still like to see a TAS from scratch in each game for each class (except the paladin, which requires [apparently] prior saved data)
If I recall correctly, you can become a paladin by doing a class change in either of the second or third games, but for the other games the only way to play through as a paladin is to start the game as one, using an imported savefile.
I'm not certain that gameplay would be varied enough to warrant a playthrough of each game in each class.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
so would the vga version of qfg1 be slower? My gut tells me it would but mousing is probably quicker then typing. Oh and the vga version has a stat bug at the start so there shouldn't be any grinding in that version.
It's a shame qfg2 vga isn't a dos game.
Yah you can become a paladin by doing a class change in the third game, the second doesn't really have a paladin class
If paladin is chosen in the third game you would probably want to keep your honor low enough so that you don't get the spider sense messages. I think the messages still pop up regardless of honor in qfg4
The idea would be to beat them as fast as possible using the same character from game to game. Not class. Paladin while being the "most powerful" isn't necessarily the fastest for the games it is available in. In one game it might be using the fighter, another the magic-user. The intent again NOT being use "all" classes, but the one that would be best suited for the game while maintaining the same character.
I am just a silhouette, a silhouette of a memory of a solitary night .. nothing more.
I think you can beat QFG2 without having to leave the city even once. However, fighting at least once allows you to skip Dinarzad, as I'm not sure if there's another way to earn the money required to buy the puzzle items.
I think you can beat QFG2 without having to leave the city even once. However, fighting at least once allows you to skip Dinarzad, as I'm not sure if there's another way to earn the money required to buy the puzzle items.
You'd have to earn quite a bit of money, as you have to buy bags, incense, powder, the lamp, levitate or a rope (if you go the wizard route, you must do the WIT training, which is a big time sink for a speedrun). I think the money changer ends up being much faster than picking a fight. You get 105 dinars from the money changer, and that gets close to enough.
To beat the game as a thief, you need to purchase:
Lamp (10 w/bargain)
Waterskin (.5 bargain)
Cloth Bag (.2, bargain)
Incense (.7, can't bargain)
Rope (115 w/ bargain)
Map (not required, but saves tons of time, 1)
5 dinars to Unganate (sp?, not sure this is required)
You only need 3 daggers, two for Ad Avis, and 1 for the cave trials, which is well below the starting 5.
With the 105 to start, plus one omar reading at 50, gives you enough for everything.
I'd start with a thief with magic, just for fetch for the bellows.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
I found you can get the required items for free if you ask the merchants at the right time (when an elemental attacks and they understand that you really need the item)
Also, you can get more dinars from dinarzad if you trade money in blocks of 50 gold coins.
I realize this thread has been out of commission for sometime, but I want to make sure that there is a database of some of my findings in the QFG games. I have the records on the QFG games as of this post and the SDA verified runs of all 5 games, and would love to see a TAS of the marathon game (QFG1-5).
If you have specific questions about the route and game, email me, incase I don't get back here frequently. It's my username here @gmail.com.
The major problem would be the transition from QFG4 to QFG5, because QFG4 is DOS and QFG5 is Windows. TASes aren't my strong point, so I'll just throw that out there. I want to answer some of the objections:
1) Gameplay-wise this just means that you get to start the latter four games with a stronger character than you "deserve"; this is artificially making the game easier via dirty SRAM, which is generally frowned-on.
Far from making the game easier, when speedrunning it becomes harder; particularly between games 1 and 3. By game 4, it is a non-issue, but you can have some magic spells that are unacquirable that can significantly speed up the route (Trigger and Open, Trigger being a necessity for QFG5 outside of TAS).
For the discussion about the issues of money in QFG2, the is only really a problem if you plan on doing it legitimately. Meeting with Dinarzad is significantly faster than grinding money, without a doubt, and you get enough to get through the game without having to trade in increments of 50. Fastest of all is using the "sell beard" glitch, which isn't any different than 90% of the glitches already on the site.
if you go the wizard route, you must do the WIT training, which is a big time sink for a speedrun
You don't need to do the WIT training. The end-game events only change if you have the Reversal spell. If you do not, you can finish the game as if you were a fighter or thief going the standard route (not through the harem).
so would the vga version of qfg1 be slower? My gut tells me it would but mousing is probably quicker then typing. Oh and the vga version has a stat bug at the start so there shouldn't be any grinding in that version.
This is probably the most technical question of the entire planning phase. :/ And it shouldn't be, if not for the glitchfest that is the QFG series.
Here is the major problem with picking the different versions. There is a MAJOR skip in BOTH games. If you throw a dagger randomly in the Brigand Leader's room, it unlocks your character and you can walk out without having saved Elsa. You can literally run to the last room of the game and come out with a saved Hero file. QFG1EGA is about 2:00 long, and QFG1VGA is about 4:00 long. Might be shorter as TAS.
That saved import file is where the problem occurs. When you import from QFG1 to QFG2, you are supposed to have completed certain quests that will allow you to start with money in QFG2. How you get the money into your character file at the end of QFG1 is different depending on the version.
In QFG1EGA, you only have to complete the game and you will start with the corresponding amount of money. In QFG1VGA, getting the money is linked to throwing the Dispel Potion and the dialog thereafter with Elsa and Yorick (somewhere in there). If you glitch-end the QFG1VGA game, you start QFG2 with no money to convert as Dinarzad. If you glitch-end the QFG1EGA game, you do have the money.
It sounds like this would be an easy choice: QFG1EGA, because you get the money. If only it were that simple.
There is an export bug in QFG1EGA that makes your character in QFG2 a Fighter no matter whether you were a Thief or Mage in QFG1EGA. The thief and mage are the only classes, from my trials, that have viable, low-stat routes in QFG2. The Fighter is totally dependent on Weapon Skill to be able to hit the Earth Elemental with Rakeesh's Sword. To put it simply, you cannot have Weapon Skill strong enough to win. You will die as a Fighter. I have no idea how I will get past this without stat-glitching in QFG1.
This issue is FIXED with QFG1VGA; your character will import as the correct character class... but will also be flat broke... unless you are willing to use "sell beard" glitch. But you still won't have the proper stats in Weapon Skill to actually pull it off. Here's a quick table the describes the problem:
QFG1EGA -> QFG2 = Fatally wrong class/stats, plenty of money.
QFG1VGA -> QFG2 = Correct class, totally broke.
I noticed this major discrepancy when routing my QFG Any% Marathon which had the potential to include QFG2VGA (the remake). QFG2VGA is WAY faster because you can skip Raseir, which unless the TAS community can come up with something, I am totally stumped on. There is close to 10 minutes of mandatory waiting in QFG2 that you cannot skip, unless you are in the VGA remake.
Also, you are not locked into a particular class for the entire series. Between games you are allowed to switch classes.
As mentioned above, you cannot switch in QFG2. In QFG3 you can change your class on importing (Sierra noticed the problem and made it manually correctable) and in QFG4 you can do this also. QFG5 technically doesn't allow this.
It looks a bit ambitious and would rely on a good amount of luck in that the games in question DON'T CRASH (QfG 4's Error 52 being the infamous one)
This glitch is pretty much non-existent anymore thanks to the patches. And disabling EMS on QFG1VGA and QFG3 pretty much eliminates the fatal crashing ones.
I would still separate this from a single-game run, because while one specific class may work better for one specific game, there may be another class that works better for 3 of the games in the series.
The Thief class is the fastest in all of the games, with the exception of QFG1EGA and QFG5. That being said, the Thief in QFG1EGA matches the Wizard. The Wizard is the fastest in QFG5, thanks to a game-breaking glitch that skips 98% of the game and skips you to the end. (My record in QFG5 is under 6m:30s.)
I'm not certain that gameplay would be varied enough to warrant a playthrough of each game in each class.
That's definitely false. QFG2 is slightly different at about the 3:00 mark. But there are significant enough route differences in QFG3, QFG4 and QFG5 that would require major route changes if you were going to keep a Fighter or Wizard throughout the runs.
To beat the game as a thief, you need to purchase:
Lamp (10 w/bargain)
Waterskin (.5 bargain) You only need one, and you start with it.
Cloth Bag (.2, bargain)
Incense (.7, can't bargain)
Rope (115 w/ bargain) You can throw rocks at the Air Elemental, and you can fall or jump everywhere else. Of course, you need Magic to be able to skip the Thief's special Ad Avis ending, which you WILL want to do.
Map (not required, but saves tons of time, 1)
5 dinars to Unganate (sp?, not sure this is required) You only need 3 daggers, two for Ad Avis, and 1 for the cave trials, which is well below the starting 5. Actually, you only need one for Ad Avis at the end... although, Force Bolt is much less random.
I think TAS-wise, having a QFG2 run start from scratch (instead of from a saved game of QFG1) would be a better idea. For a longplay, it's great that you can import a char to the next game; but a TAS is not a longplay.
Regardless, I think that adventure games are an underrepresented genre on the site.
I think TAS-wise, having a QFG2 run start from scratch (instead of from a saved game of QFG1) would be a better idea. For a longplay, it's great that you can import a char to the next game; but a TAS is not a longplay.
Regardless, I think that adventure games are an underrepresented genre on the site.
Well, the import from game to game was the original point of this thread all those years ago, so I was adding my knowledge of what was necessary to complete the original poster's idea.
Also, I wouldn't exactly call it a longplay. Those usually keep everything in, and are 100%. 100% adds a good hour of time at best to each entry, from my estimates, although I admit 100% is not my category. The marathon (1-5) Any% run still skips everything non-essential, and in these games, there is a metric ton that are side-quests.
My QFG1-4 marathon. Adding the fifth game to the end of this only adds about 8 minutes thanks to a glitch that skips you to the end, bringing the final time to under 1h:25m:
Link to video
Here is Puri's 100% Wizard marathon run. Notice, over 5h:30m long, and well routed:
http://www.twitch.tv/puri_puri/c/5456322
I agree, however, that a TAS of each individual entry with a new game from scratch Any% and 100% would be my preferred place to see this game start, but there is definitely a precedent. QFG, with its stats system, does have quite a bit of thought and planning necessary to do a solid marathon run.
100% adds a good hour of time at best to each entry
I was totally wrong on this. I have the 100% records on QFG2 for all characters now, and the Fighter (slowest) is only 20 minutes longer RTA. 100% is probably doable in 2 to 3 hours (QFG5 will easily be the longest), but there are several games (Final Fantasy VIII, anyone) that have MUCH longer times.
It still seems like a moot point. I am not skilled enough in TASing, and I'm not sure I could learn it with my schedule as a dad, grad student and pastor. :/ I'd be MORE than happy to assist with what technical questions come up.
As I gather more input into the series, I'll keep depositing info here.
I'll be running the series at RPG Limit Break 2016 in May! Keep an eye open on May 11th at 5:00PM on Twitch.
Trying to add my info the forums, regardless of how dead they may appear. I'm sure someone will TAS this fantastic game soon. I currently have the world records on all five games Any% for all character classes, so I've done quite a bit of routing, and there is quite a bit of missing info from the route proposed (but a good start).
The Magic-User is the fastest because of a game-breaking glitch I discovered that allows you to go straight to the Brigand Leader and exit (Baba Yaga optional). You do NOT need to hear the password for the cave if you are using the original Hero's Quest 1.0 version of the game. You can type "hiden goseke" and the troll will move:
- Start game, all points into Strength (for moving the rock door).
- Speed up game to fastest setting, skip sheriff's text.
- Buy open, exit town.
- Go to Erana's Peace, cast open, get calm spell.
- Run to rock door, cast open near door, move rock, "hiden goseke"
- Move through cave
- Cast calm on Minotaur, cast open, open door
- Get through the Brigand's area and cafeteria
- Ask about Elsa to Yorick so he leaves, get through maze.
- When in Brigand Leader's room "throw dagger" and your character will unlock.
- Exit and the game ends with a win.
- Optional: You CAN get the Magic Mirror after your character is unlocked, but the speed has to be set high enough, otherwise it moves to a screen that is a close-up of Elsa. You can then go to Baba Yaga and win that way, but you'll need the gem from the Giant.
All of this will end the game by mid-day on the first day. I currently have the WR on this route at 2m 17s, and I'm sure a TAS could go sub 2m easily. The full route is just slightly more involved, but not really. Sub 5 minutes is definitely possible there, because I am currently at 5m 30s range in the Dispel Potion route.
Don't hesitate to message me here or on SDA, or even better, email me at this user name @ gmail. I love talking about this series and have routes for all of them.
