Posted: 3/21/2007 10:08 PM
Post subject: What are your TASing techniques?
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CtrlAltDestroy
Active player (328)
Joined: 2/23/2005
Posts: 786
Yes, it's this topic again. How do you have your hotkeys arranged for TASing? And how do you use them? When I started TASing, I hated the idea of having Save State and Load State mapped to extremely similar key combos (Like Shift+n and Ctrl+n or whatever they default to) so I invented a unique arrangement: Save State 1-9: 1-9 keys at the top of the keyboard Save State 0: V Load State 1: Ctrl+Z Load State 2: Ctrl+X Load State 3: Ctrl+C Load State 4: Ctrl+A Load State 5: Ctrl+S Load State 6: Ctrl+D Load State 7: Ctrl+Q Load State 8: Ctrl+W Load State 9: Ctrl+E Load State 0: Ctrl+` These create a sort of numpad on the left side of the keyboard for extremely quick state loads. It helps that these combos are so close to the A and B buttons, so loading doesn't require much effort at all, not even having to reach my hand up to the numpad or the number keys. Also, it makes me think twice about saving states, because they do take some effort to reach up and press. Best of all, it's so far apart from the Save keys that it's nearly impossible to save when meaning to load or vice versa. State 0 is used as an anchor for the beginning of the current level. I rarely use states 1-2 due to habit, because I used to be unaware of Frame Advance and found that loading the states with Ctrl+Z and Ctrl+X would automatically fire the Z and X buttons on any game but Boulder Dash. State 3 is my most used state. States 4-6 are checkpoint states which get saved at vital points of the current level to create miniature branches and test outcomes. States 7-9 are branch states. When I get to the end of the level, I'll usually save state 9 and then try again with a different strategy to see if I can get a better outcome. I'll save the next outcome with 8 or 7 and then compare them. In theory you'd only need 1-2 for this to save the best performance, but I use 3 anyway. Sometimes 7 is used as a checkpoint state. I recently tried using the State select feature of most emulators, but I'm so used to this method that I can't get into it. So do you have any unconventional techniques that could possibly help out the rest of us?
Posted: 3/21/2007 10:21 PM
(Edited: 3/21/2007 10:22 PM)
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ventuz
He/Him
Player (125)
Joined: 10/4/2004
Posts: 940
F1 - save slot 1 F2 - save slot 2 F3 - save slot 3 F4 - save slot 4 F5 - load slot 1 F6 - load slot 2 F7 - load slot 3 F8 - load slot 4 slot 1 = current TAS slot 2 = the begin of something (start of fight, before jumping off of a platform or so on) slot 3 = best attempt of end of something (end of fight, etc..) slot 4 = begin of whatever stage, etc.. (read-only, use it to play back to certain mistake you do rather than replay whole movie) It's my average and simple TAS method, I think...
Posted: 3/21/2007 10:22 PM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
My usual technique is, whenever I advance a couple frames to the next "important" point, I increase the save slot # by 1 and save. If I need to go back, just decrease the save slot #. I go through the 10 states many times during one level, and don't have any sort of structure on which states are what, like you. I use the numpad for frame advance and savestate handling. The , (not sure if it's the same key on american keyboards, this is the key to the right of 0 on my keyboard) is the Pause button (this is for snes9x), 0 is frame advance and 1+2 is change save slot (decrease and increase, respectively). The 5 buttons to the left of my right shift key are, in order, save state, A, Y, B, load state. Also, the L is X, which I don't use that often. I think that's all the buttons I use.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 3/21/2007 10:29 PM
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DeHackEd
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Former player
Joined: 11/6/2004
Posts: 833
For FCEU: Keys 4 through 0 are savestate slots. Slot 1 is available when the program starts. I think some key bindings screwed up and I can't access slots 1 through 3 anymore. F5=save, F7=load. For snes9x: This is on a game-pad. It's shaped like a PSX2 controller, except with 2 extra buttons on the SquareCircleDiamondX side and no R2/L2 shoulder buttons. L1 or R1: Frame-advance. Digital pad: up,down,left,right A,B,X,Y where you'd expect them Left analog stick: left/right to shift save-states. No limit on capacity. Right analog stick: left/right for L or R, up or down to get both L and R at the same time. Extra buttons near A,B,X,Y: Savestate or loadstate. This is how I made my dual run. Both snes9x instances read from the same joypad and got frame-advance and savestate commands from it. The sheer number of available savestates really affects the way I play though. I can effectively rewind a long way back and I abuse it thoroughly.
Posted: 3/21/2007 10:34 PM
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mmbossman
Experienced player (828)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
GBx TAS of 2008
Fabian wrote:
My usual technique is, whenever I advance a couple frames to the next "important" point, I increase the save slot # by 1 and save. If I need to go back, just decrease the save slot #. I go through the 10 states many times during one level, and don't have any sort of structure on which states are what, like you.
Ditto to this, and I also use the 0 state like CtrlAltDestroy. I've been using Gens a lot recently, so I just stick with their 1-9 + 0 scheme. I may load a wrong state every once in a while, but it sure has helped me with my touch typing for numbers, and I can generally remember how far along the keyboard my current state is.
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Posted: 3/21/2007 10:35 PM
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Baxter
Skilled player (1409)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
TAS of 2013 SNES TAS of 2013 Speedy TAS of 2007 Innovative TAS of 2007
Savestate 1 is usually at the beginning of the level I'm working at, I use it a lot to see what I produced (with help of read only). Most of the time I use all other savestates just random, except sometimes savestate 0 gets a special function, when I played a part, and doing a test to check whether I'm faster, then savestate 0 will be my first attempt (in case the test was slower). I only TASed on nes and snes, my hotkeys are the same: 1,2,...,0 = select state # S = save state Q = load state Spacebar = pause ; = frame advance (also sometimes ' since it's closer to the arrows, but ; accepts more keys pressed at the same time) shift+8 = readonly mode Tab = turbo F11 = load movie (saves me time with the quadrun) + = speed up - = speed down , = input display Button setup for nes: up = up down = down left = left right = right Z = B C = A ] = start [ = select Some extra's for making 2 player TAS: Num8 = up (player 2) Num2 = down (player 2) Num4 = left (player 2) Num6 = right (player 2) A = B (player 2) D = A (player 2) Delete = right (for both players) Insert = left (for both players) Home = up (for both players) Num7 = down (for both players) Page Up = B (for both players) Buttons for snes: up = up down = down left = left right = right Z = B C = A A = Y D = X W = L E = R ] = start [ = select
http://tasvideos.org/Baxter.html
Posted: 3/21/2007 11:14 PM
Post subject: Re: What are your TASing techniques?
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sliverjazz
Joined: 10/31/2004
Posts: 62
The top left shoulder button i use for loading and the top right shoulder button i use for saving.
Posted: 3/21/2007 11:16 PM
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arkiandruski
Reviewer, Active player (286)
Joined: 12/14/2006
Posts: 717
Sega TASer of 2018
Nothing different. I use state 1 for each level and state two for checkpoints within a level. 3-6 are cycled through incrementally. Sometimes if it's very easy to make a mistake, I use state 7. State 0 is for testing new routes in case the new route is slower.
My favorite movies
Posted: 3/22/2007 11:19 AM
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Blublu
Player (68)
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjaví­k, Ísland
For NES 1-0 : select savestate slot S : save state Delete : load state Tab : advance frame Space : pause/unpause A and B are set to X and C, up/down/left/right are set to the arrow buttons and start/select is set to , and .. Savestate 1 is usually at the beginning of the level, then I use 2-6 incrementally. 0 is used for special circumstances and 7-9 is used whenever I don't want to overwrite any other states.
Posted: 3/22/2007 11:23 AM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Nobody likes my button assignments, so I won't post them the fourth time :) __________________ Yay, a completely worthless post
Posted: 3/22/2007 12:30 PM
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Inzult
Active player (434)
Joined: 9/27/2004
Posts: 650
Location: Canada
NES TAS of 2021
1-0: select savestate slot 1-0 F5: save state left shift: load state tab: pause emulation spacebar: advance frame q, w: Start, Select a, s: A, B F11: auto hold F9: clear auto hold arrow keys: D pad \: fast forward ,: frame display .: input display Player 2: i,l,k,j: up, right, down, left u, o: B, A y, p: Select, Start For save management, I use 1 as a save at the beginning of the level/area/boss or whatever and just cycle through the others. If I need another anchor point, I use #1 again. Because of this, if I happen to make a mistake before state 1, I usually have to rewatch and make a new save. That's why I know where my fast forward button is.
Posted: 3/22/2007 12:37 PM
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zefiris
Joined: 4/11/2006
Posts: 487
Location: North of Russia :[
F1 = load state 1 F2 = save state 1 1 = load state 5 2 = save state 5 3 = rewind (if supported) 4 = pause 5 = frame advance shift+Fx = save state x Fx (where x >2) load state X. state 2 is a hard backup =) on joypad (only used it with VBA, so X, O, R1, L1 are used by controls) L2 = pause R2 = frame advance / speedup (depends on mode, see later) square = rewind + frame advance / rewind Triangle is special button triangle+R2 = change mode (viewing / recording) triangle+square = load state 5 triangle+circle = save state 5
Posted: 3/22/2007 1:13 PM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
Regarding controls… I use WASD for action buttons and arrow keys for d-pad (which results in some kind of a reversed gamepad). Most of the time I assign them so S is a jump button and D is attack. Pressing three buttons with at least two of them on the same row poses a problem (until I find myself a good USB keyboard), so, for instance, in Super Metroid I assign attack to numpad 0 to be able to press and hold it with my right pinky. Frame advance is assigned to right ctrl. Regarding the prep work… After all the large-scale preparations (making yourself familiar with the game, route planning, etc.), I would first try to gather all the technical info on character's interaction with the game (a process I'm curently doing for Super Metroid). That includes finding memory values for position and speed (if there's any acceleration), boss HP values and all that kind of stuff. It would save a lot of testing and bruteforcing later on, and also prevent some mistakes (I've learnt it the hard way, heh). Regarding the process… Depending on the segment's complexity, I use 3—5 savestates for actual play and up to 4 for referential points from other movies. F5—F8 — references; F9 — beginning of a zone/level; F4 — beginning/ending of a complex segment; F3 — checkpoint; F2 — anchor/general duty slot; F1 — general duty slot. That's all, I guess.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 3/22/2007 4:32 PM
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P.JBoy
Any
Editor
Joined: 3/25/2006
Posts: 850
Location: stuck in Pandora's box HELLPP!!!
Up - Up Down - Up Left - Left Right - Right A - Z B - X L - A R - S Start - [Enter] Select - [Backspace] Autohold Up - [Numpad] 9 Autohold A - E Autohold B - Q Autohold R - W Turbo Down - [Numpad] 2 Turbo A - D Turbo B - C Frame Advance - \ Reverse Time - ` Memory Viewer - Ctrl + M Map Viewer - Alt + M Cheat Search [Shift] + M Background 0 - 1 Background 1 - 2 Background 2 - 3 Background 3 - 4 Sprite Layer - 5 Save State 0 - F2 / Load State 0 - F4 Save State 1 - [Shift] + F1 / Load State 1 - F1 Save State 2 - [Shift] + F3 / Load State 2 - F3 Save State 3-9 - [Shift] + F5-F11 / Load State 3-9 - F5-F11 Read Only - [Shift] + 8 Continue Recording From Here - [Shift] + 9 Movie Play - / Movie Restart - J Movie Record - [Numpad] / Movie Record Stop - [Numpad] * States 0-2 are my main states that I use all the time States 3+4 are for the tough parts that require more precision, they are also my back-up states States 5-7 are my movie playing states that I use to review my progress States 8+9 are for stuff like fiddling with the memory
Posted: 3/23/2007 5:51 AM
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Dacicus
Editor, Player (69)
Joined: 6/22/2005
Posts: 1050
Keyboard layout (for systems used on this site): Up = Up Left = Left Right = Right Down = Down A = B S = A D = Select F = Start Q = C-up/Y(/autofire B, but I don't generally use it) W = C-left/X(/autofire A, but I don't generally use it) E = C-right R = C-down Z = Z X = Left trigger C = Right trigger Hotkeys: Shift + F# = Save to slot # (or # - 1 for some emulators) F# = Load slot # (or # - 1 for some emulators) Enter = Pause Space = Frame advance . and , = Show input and frame number. I'm not sure if I have these consistently mapped, but I generally have them both on or both off, so it doesn't really matter. + = Increase speed - = Decrease speed Tab = Fast forward My save state use is horrible. I don't really have designated states for certain spots. Instead, I sort of cycle through states 1-5 as I progress in a level, usually in places that require frame advance. It would probably help if I wrote down important frame numbers, but I don't.
Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.
Posted: 3/25/2007 12:36 PM
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Xipo
Banned User
Joined: 12/26/2006
Posts: 231
Location: Lonely City
YHGJ——up down left right S-save L-load F3-next state F4-previous state space-frame advance P-pause And I never use other key.hotkeys
work hard
Posted: 3/25/2007 2:22 PM
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VANDAL
Experienced player (614)
Joined: 4/24/2005
Posts: 612
My setup is an unorthodox setup but what would be an orthodox setup really? Anyway, It goes something like this for FCEUltra: 
       Controls                    Save/Load                                Other 
       --------                    ---------                                -----
     B = z | Up    = p      Save = q   |    Load = w            Auto-Hold = u | Input Display    = ,
     A = x | Down  = ;   State 0 = F10 | State 5 = F5     Clear Auto-Hold = i | Frame Display    = .
Select = c | Left  = l   State 1 = F1  | State 6 = F6             Turbo A = s | Frame Advance    = Spacebar
Start  = v | Right = '   State 2 = F2  | State 7 = F7             Turbo B = a | Toggle Read-Only = Shift+8
                         State 3 = F3  | State 8 = F8     View Save Slots = ] | Turbo Speed      = Tab
                         State 4 = F4  | State 9 = F9
Any other Emulator is setup in a similar manner. The reason I don't use the arrow keys for the directionals is so I can press more buttons down at the same time while advancing frames at a time instead of having to resort to Auto-Hold so often when all I want to do, for example, is press up and left while advancing frames. I used to have the States set on the line of numbers but SNES9X's default setup is different so I compromised to stay consistent (plus I like being able to disable back/foreground layers/sprites and since SNES9X's number line is setup already for that I see no need to remap them).
Posted: 3/25/2007 8:43 PM
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Mitjitsu
He/Him
Banned User
Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997
TAS of 2007 N64 TAS of 2007
Going by the topic title shouldn't we be disscussing techniques we use/learned in relation to producing an optimal TAS not keyboard preferences.
Posted: 3/25/2007 9:04 PM
Post subject: Re: What are your TASing techniques?
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
CtrlAltDestroy wrote:
Yes, it's this topic again. How do you have your hotkeys arranged for TASing? And how do you use them?
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 3/25/2007 9:05 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
I have to admit that AKA's idea for the topic sounds more interesting, though.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 3/25/2007 9:07 PM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
Yes, though you'll have to admit it's very game-specific. I posted either information, though.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 3/25/2007 9:08 PM
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Vatchern
Player (86)
Joined: 3/8/2005
Posts: 973
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Hmm. My techneque is playing at 100% speed with a PS -> USB controller. Saving states between levels and using auto fire on my controller.
http://tasvideos.org/Vatchern.html
Posted: 3/25/2007 9:33 PM
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mmbossman
Experienced player (828)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
GBx TAS of 2008
Vatchern wrote:
Hmm. My techneque is playing at 100% speed with a PS -> USB controller. Saving states between levels and using auto fire on my controller.
Hmm, I'll have to try that sometime, sounds like a great technique. It has been a while since I've actually played a game.
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Posted: 3/25/2007 11:34 PM
Post subject: What I do
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pirate_sephiroth
Active player (312)
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
New systems TAS of 2009
Well, I work at VBA and the default hotkeys are already optimal enough. I use all the available 10 savestates, like this: Slot 10 has the oldest save (usually first frame of the game, or the title screen); Slot 9 has the beginning of the current section, or room, or stage, or whatever. Slot 8 has always my current "OK" position. In other words, it's the place I can safely resume it after I take a break (even if I forgot what I did before). The remaining slots are used for testing all possible options. Also, frame search is the greatest assistant ever. It saves A LOT of time, at the cost of thousands of re-records. A good reason to keep old savestates is to quick preview the movie, by switching to read-only and then loading the state. The most important thing is to ALWAYS use frame advance. Don't be lazy... it's the only way to make it look good. The rest is learned with time (I guess!).
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.