Hero now holds the 1st rank for the amount of test-smvs in my collection for Super Metroid (except my own ones). :-)
But to make it clear, it's a bit slower, and also requires much more damage taking.
For comparison (from the top left to the top right door of that big azid room):
- JXQ's Space Jump variant: 500 frames
- Hero's Shinespark variant (this one): 587 frames
- My non-Space Jump/Shinespark RBO variant: 612 frames
Hope this helps.
Joined: 3/25/2006
Posts: 850
Location: stuck in Pandora's box HELLPP!!!
Couldn't you speed up the space jump variant by doing a slightly higher jump and then wall-jump at the bottom of the stalactite instead of doing 3 space jumps
Tonski:
This is all known and slower. :-)
Regarding the Space Jump variant, I already thought about doing it in the any% run the way P.JMan suggested, but now I tried it to see how much faster this will be, and the result is outstanding: only 423 frames, more than a sec faster than JXQ's one. :-)
Couldn't you speed up the space jump variant by doing a slightly higher jump and then wall-jump at the bottom of the stalactite instead of doing 3 space jumps
Ummm... I didn't quite get this. Maybe a SMV would explain it better?
Saturn:
Oh okay. I just thought I might've discovered a new uber-timesaver but seems not. :) I was just playing around with slowdown and savestates, it's fun to see how fast it is once you get it done.
<Deign> .dice 1d1999191023443691
<BisqBot> Deign rolls a blackhole and destroys the planet.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Saturn, I was also taking into account the amount of time gained from the damage boost in the previous room which isn't possible with the space jump method. Not that this matters anymore, with the walljump method, my shinespark idea is not good anyway.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Thanks evilchen :)
On an unrelated matter, has anyone seen this semi-tool assisted run? found here. I call this semi tool assisted mainly because it is very sloppy for our standards, but is way better than a human could normally do. I think he may end up with a time close to teri's, most likely a little bit longer. He seems to be using Saturn's any% route which is Phantoon > Kraid > Draygon > Ridley, (correct me if I am wrong). While the author certainly knows a decent amount about the game and how to make a tool assisted run, it is almost as though he has never seen any of the TASes on this site. He misses some of the most easy and known tricks that even human runners can pull off but at the same time he executes some of the more recently discovered tricks. The main thing that I am curious about is that he skipped the varia suit, this could be very interesting to see how he handles the mother brain fight without it. Maybe he knows something that no one else does.
evilchen and Tonski:
Unfortunately I didn't record a smv while testing this. Sorry.
hero of the day wrote:
He seems to be using Saturn's any% route which is Phantoon > Kraid > Draygon > Ridley, (correct me if I am wrong).
You are. It's Phantoon -> Draygon -> Kraid -> Ridley.
Do you think I'm gonna waste the Speed Booster and Space Jump powers for nothing in Kraids Lair by doing it before Draygon? Not with me. ;-)
Gonna check his run some time, but unless he doesn't take 3 more energy tanks, he will experience a very uncomfortable surprise at Motherbrain whithout Varia Suit. But maybe he indeed plans on doing something unexpected, so let's see.
On an unrelated matter, has anyone seen this semi-tool assisted run? found here. I call this semi tool assisted mainly because it is very sloppy for our standards, but is way better than a human could normally do.
Wow, this guy sure is a copycat. :D
He doesn't seem to know most of the indepth stuff written at our trick page here, hence all the missing optimizations. That is, he does something because it works, but doesn't understand why or how does it work, which is the reason for inconsistency. Some up-to-date tricks require precise timing and knowledge on how to use them, thus, we won't see them in the run.
However, judging from the noticeable quality increase from earlier to later segments, he might have checked the TASes more carefully (or at least tried to experiment with optimization). For instance, looking at his Lower Norfair segment, I can say for sure that he has watched Saturn's 3rd RBO teaser. ;)
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Saturn wrote:
Do you think I'm gonna waste the Speed Booster and Space Jump powers for nothing in Kraids Lair by doing it before Draygon? Not with me. ;-)
hahaha, yea that somehow slipped my mind when I made the post. I even tested kraid's lair with the booster/spacejump/springball a few days ago to see how much faster it was, after I suggested to JXQ to do Kraid after Draygon. Then JXQ schooled me and showed me the folly of my ways.
so, what are we going to do about it? Should we ask him about his mother brain plans, give him a few pointers, maybe invite him over? Or are we just going to sit and watch?
I vote for sit and watch; then, after the situation resolves in either way, probably invite him over and discuss things.
I'm 99% certain that he knows about this site.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Well I just figured out a pretty intense trick that could save 5-10 seconds in the 100% run. This trick would remove 2 door transitions and it would reduce the amount of distance traveled. The problem is that it requires a hefty set up, and I am not sure how long it would take to get that fireball up into the top cubicle in order to perform the trick. I am pretty sure that the fireball has to be a specific one, and I think it may be the fireball from the very bottom :( since each fireball has a different pattern. I shall let the video speak for itself.
enjoy!
Wow, very nice hero! I really must say that you have a extremely good creativity to find new stuff over and over again.
Although all this tricks are pretty obvious thinking about it now, it's surprising no one has ever noticed such a cool thing. Thank you very much for that!
Hmm thinking about it, this might even be a interesting variant to use in a any% run (in both your and my route). The amount of door transitions is exactly the same, actually, the Power Bomb use as well (bottom one requires 2, but you get them back right before doing the first shinespark), but the any% (especially your route) benefits of skipping the health draining shinespark, so you could skip many health refills before, and save more time.
Somebody should do a rough test of this top-route and then compare it to the standard bottom one to find out how much faster it might be. Maybe I will do it myself today or tomorrow.
EDIT: Ahh, I get it now. The 2 more door transitions you speak of are only a matter in the 100% run. But as said, it seems to be a interesting one for any% as well.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Thanks Saturn. I always look for the unorthodox way of going through the game, doing things differently than what the standard runs would do. I guess this trick was never realized because it cannot be completed in real time within a timely manner.
Like you said, I too have been thinking about taking this path for any future any% runs. The main question in my mind it how long it will take to get that single fireball up into the top area. Taking this path will not use up any power bombs at all, the top part can be taken out with regular bombs. The area with the very powerful side hoppers can be cleared by shortchraged running. The bad part about this path is that it will supply Samus with 1 less powerbomb, but hopefully ridley's drops can compensate for that.
If you do happen to make an optimized test of this, I would really appreciate hearing the results, or if you could supply the smv that would be awesome.
Although all this tricks are pretty obvious thinking about it now, it's surprising no one has ever noticed such a cool thing. Thank you very much for that!
Michael B. from germany did this in a test tape on console many years ago
edit: also too add he was one of the first guys with kejadorn and ultima experiencing this glitch at the springball and the room before botwoon
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
evilchen wrote:
Saturn wrote:
Although all this tricks are pretty obvious thinking about it now, it's surprising no one has ever noticed such a cool thing. Thank you very much for that!
Michael B. from germany did this in a test tape on console many years ago
Why do you not mention these things earlier? If you had told us about this trick earlier, all of our runs could have been better. Why hide these timesavers until I discover them on my own?
ha yeah thats right.. ive never thought of that being any faster because michael needed soooo much time to get the right fireball up there plus/and i may have forgetten these because i never thought of even a framesaver or more
iam very sorry :( i did not want to hide anything!
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Thats alright evilchen, its not a big deal. I personally like to make every discovery I find available to everyone as early as possible, so that they can use the trick in their run. This way the community as a whole benefits, instead of just the person who finds the trick.
Well, bad news.
I just tried to test the top route, and unfortunately you have no chance to get one of the fireballs pass through this tight opening right before you can freeze it to pass the wall. There is no way you can alter their moving direction, and I fear you, hero, saying that it has to be the bottom one is very true. And waiting for that definitely won't make this route faster in any case, not even in a 100% run I guess, at least as long there is a way to get the fireball reach the top room block without more than 10 sec delay (or much less in a any% to be worth it). :-(
If you want to see the smv hero, I can upload. But there is really nothing worth to see since the attempt fails anyway.
Hey I started kinda wondering... Would it be faster at all when going to get the early supers to shoot those things that make little budgers or whatever they are, and then take enemy boost from them like Saturn did in one of his Redesign WIPs?
<Deign> .dice 1d1999191023443691
<BisqBot> Deign rolls a blackhole and destroys the planet.
