First of all, I remember reading somewhere that when rescuing Pippi, she'll give you the Franklin Badge right away if you give the correct responses. This would prevent having to backtrack to Pippi's house.
Also, I'm pretty sure that Barbots (and the red versions) are immune to reflected PK Beam gammas.
Anyways, why are you planning to level up at the Zoo, Duncan's Factory, etc.? Unless the battles are completed several times faster than Red Snakes, it just wastes time.
The only necessary battles in this game are Lamp, Doll, Starman Jr., Dragon, R7308xx, and Geigue.
Lamp and Doll have no other options available than to manipulate SMAAASHes (did I get the right number of "A"s?). Starman Jr. needs to be manipulated into using PK Beam gamma for a OHKO. R7308xx is a scripted battle. I have already given startegies for Guigue, which is why you might need to level up beyond 25.
As for the dragon...
You'll already be at level 25, so perhaps Ninten's Offence Up on Loid/Teddy, followed by manipulating the dragon to physically attack or Strange Cry the correct person would help out.
Basically, with the exception of levelling, you should completely avoid all other battles. And I personally doubt that an Elephant's meager 60 XP is worth not waiting to get a Red Snake's 500 XP (or 250/167, depending on how you need to split it).
Any experience earned in the game will not be utilized until the Dragon, or other levelling battles, so it's probably best to ignore levelling for the first half of the game. You could also level with Blue Starmen by manipulating them to kill themselves with PK Beam gamma in Mt. Ioti.
EDIT
Oops, sorry. I completely forgot about "The Fish." Groucho would be the best for levelling -- 60 to 80 XP for walking away, which can be easily manipulated to happen the first round.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 87
Location: California, USA
Floogal wrote:
Anyways, why are you planning to level up at the Zoo, Duncan's Factory, etc.? Unless the battles are completed several times faster than Red Snakes, it just wastes time.
Well, like I said, my goal is to spread out the levelling equally because I think it's a bit boring to fight Red Snake after Red Snake at one section in the game. I guess it's a sacrifice of speed for entertainment.
The Fish should only take a couple level-ups. Grouchos being the best way, of course. I'll have a good attack boost with the Boomerang.
I'm definitely going to change my level-up strategy, likely going off of Starmen and potential OHKOs, maybe some enemies I can kill in one hit, and I'm going to fight every Groucho I come across (even though it wastes a bit of time), but that's understandable... right?
N. Harmonik wrote:
According to GameFaqs, 'by opening the Menu often out in the field, you will encounter enemies much less often.'
You don't encounter any at all if you open it on the right square.
If you see me posting, I'm most likely being a douche.
<small>Working on:
not ever coming here again</small>
Technically there's also a battle at the entrance to Duncan's factory, but that fight is easy and not worth worrying about. As for the dragon, my thought is to just make Loid kill it with a super bomb.
Anyway, how do you plan to kill red snakes quickly at such a low level?
Well, like I said, my goal is to spread out the levelling equally because I think it's a bit boring to fight Red Snake after Red Snake at one section in the game. I guess it's a sacrifice of speed for entertainment.
The Fish should only take a couple level-ups. Grouchos being the best way, of course. I'll have a good attack boost with the Boomerang.
I'm definitely going to change my level-up strategy, likely going off of Starmen and potential OHKOs, maybe some enemies I can kill in one hit, and I'm going to fight every Groucho I come across (even though it wastes a bit of time), but that's understandable... right?
Well I think you should level up the fastest way possible to spend the least time in battles that you can, but it may make sense to do some easier enemies first so that tougher battles don't take forever.
And you talk about getting the Boomerang. Is this before or after roaming around Magicant? I guess you could go to Merrysville first, buy the boomerang, then run back to that first cave, so you'll have your Onyx Hook and whatever other goodies you can get in Magicant. Would it make any sense to get Loid right away?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 87
Location: California, USA
The Boomerang's in Queen Mary's Castle. It shouldn't take too long out of a route to get (I think you visit Queen Mary anyway as part of the plot), and the rewards are great.
As for the Red Snakes, I'll worry about it when I get to them ^_^ I don't know how much damage I'll be doing at that point so I dunno about SMAAASH attacks. Since they tend to run and I tend to be bad at luck manipulation, I want to at least try to level up to a point where I can kill it in one round, then work my way up to one hit with Ninten (since he'll be the main person doing everything, I'll probably kill off my party at a certain point and level him up quite a bit).
I'm hoping to find a sequence break or a glitch or something.
Note: I'll begin version 3 on Tuesday. I made too many plans for the 4 day weekend. If anyone wants to contribute information to the run (I'll most likely be offline), feel free to post.
Note2: It seems Starman Jr is unaffected by PK Beam... Unless I'm not manipulating it right...
If you see me posting, I'm most likely being a douche.
<small>Working on:
not ever coming here again</small>
The Boomerang's in Queen Mary's Castle. It shouldn't take too long out of a route to get (I think you visit Queen Mary anyway as part of the plot), and the rewards are great.
Oh, that's right. So you wouldn't have to save up money for a weapon. And maybe Loid could just help out with his beams and bombs, since they don't require leveling.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
I just checked, and Starman Jr. is immune to PK Beam γ. This means some leveling is required before the fight, considering that attacks deal 1 damage to him at level 2, and Ninten dies in one hit.
Huh? Really? I could have sworn... mumble mumble...
Oh well, it looks like we'll need to manipulate SMAAAASHes to beat him, as they ignore defense.
Let's see... he has 52 HP and Ninten optimally gains 3 offense per level...
So, with the Plastic Bat, Ninten can beat him in three rounds at level 5/6, two rounds at level 8, and OHKO at level 17.
Buying a slingshot will knock down the level requirements by one, and buying a Wooden Bat will knock down the level requirements by three.
Also, with regards to later levelling, maybe you could go after LastStarmen with EVE -- they give over 60% of a Red Snake's XP, and they travel in groups...
And I can confirm that, yes, the game does let you beat Geigue with a party of just Ninten and Loid. However, the ending game sequence remains unchanged. Also, if Ninten learns teleport before recruiting Ana, she will mysteriously know the move as well when/if she joins you.
There's really not a whole lot of sequence-breaking to be done here, as this game is quite non-linear, at least compared to its sequel.
The first half is straightforward rescue & return Pippi, defeat Starman Jr., go to Merrysville (long way round through Magicant), get Rocket from factory, get Loid, launch rocket from other factory.
Then it turns open in any order, travel to the locations of the remaining melodies. Note that besides the obvious along-the-way ones (Ninten's House, canary, singing monkey), it's also techinically possible to get Spookane's melody before seeing Loid.
So unless we can trick the game into not needing all eight melodies or discover walk-through-walls situations (there is one small one in Mt. Itoi caves), most of the second-half of the game is just route-planning.
Since bread crumbs are also reset when you take the train, I recommend not visiting Spookane until after learning teleport.
One big sequence-break would be somehow entering the zoo without the key, or getting past the police roadblocks. This would allow us to keep Pippi, who gains levels really fast and has stats comparable to Teddy's. Note that talking to the mayor with either Ninten or Pippi KO'd will not net you the key.
Also, if we could somehow get past the boulders on the railway tracks, we could skip Duncan's Factory. We still couldn't skip Loid, as I doubt we could get EVE without him.
Perhaps messing with Bread "teleportation" could allow us to briefly avoid collision detection...?
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 87
Location: California, USA
N. Harmonik wrote:
Maybe Starman Jr. knows different types of PK Beams.
The only reflectable PK Beam is gamma, and he's immune to it.
Right now the Starman Jr's gonna be the hardest battle to plan for. I'll likely buy the Slingshot. I dunno how many Breads I'll need for the future, and I'll have to fight a few battles to be able to buy a Wooden Bat.
Gaining money at the Zoo is out of the question since I can't use two breads.
The Hippie is probably the best money/EXP farming enemy before I get to Podunk. They give 6 EXP and $35 (not to mention if their Bullhorn fails it increases your offense for the battle!). This means I'll have to defeat 10 of them to be able to buy a Wooden Bat (after I get my $100 reward from the Mayor, plus the $50 the Doll gives you).
I'm trying to find a level-up chart so I can gauge exactly when I'll reach level 5 (where I'm planning to be when fighting Starman Jr). I'll level to 3 in the Graveyard, then to 5 in the Zoo, hopefully.
I won't be working on a test run until later this week (I started one but it's sloppy and inconsistent, my mind's on other things...), but keep the tips coming. I appreciate the help ^_^
EDIT: More ROM info.
There are a LOT of changes from the Japanese to the English version. The English version, other than the "RUN" button, is a lot slower than the Japanese version.
Notably... (this is all for the Japanese version)
As you check EVE and get the 7th melody, you are instantaneously transported to Queen Mary in Magicant, who knows the whole song and then sends you back.
When the party goes through the cave beyond George's grave, they are instantly transported into battle with Giegue.
On the other hand...
The Rosemary House is a bigger maze, and contains more rooms.
Full list of changes here (spoilers).
There's also something I'd really like to look into, if possible:
Q: Is there a way to finish the game with Teddy instead of Loid?
A: Yes, it has to do with a glitch in some games (not all) that it was not necessary
to get the seventh melody (EVE) to SING the song to Queen Mary. This is how I have
heard it possible anyway, I haven't personally been able to confirm it.
I dunno about the "some games (not all)" thing, however.
If you see me posting, I'm most likely being a douche.
<small>Working on:
not ever coming here again</small>
Floogal claimed to have done some analysis on final parties...
Floogal wrote:
Also, let me dash any hopes of a Ninten-Loid-Teddy party: if you reach Ellay without Ana in your party, the crowd won't let you dance (they damand a trio), and Teddy therefore won't appear to spar and then join you.
Here are some of the party options as I can see it:
1) Just Ninten and Loid
- level up Ninten to 29 so that he knows Lifeup beta, and level up Loid until he has about 80 HP
- during the waiting phase of the Giegue battle, set up a PSI shield on both characters
- during the singing phase, Ninten alternates between himself and Loid with Lifeup beta, while Loid sings away
- skips Snowman and Reindeer station altogether
2) Ninten, Loid, and Ana
- Ninten at level 25 is fine, get Ana to level 22 for lifeup pi, and Loid to 80 HP
- after shielding everyone, Ana repeatedly used lifeup pi (stopping occasionally to use a PSI Stone) while the other two sing
3) Ninten and Ana (and ignored Loid)
- Ninten at level 25, Ana with 80 HP, Loid at 1
- same as method #1, but Ana heals while Ninten sings
- since Loid isn't levelled, need fewer snakes
4) Ninten, Ana, and Teddy
- after killing EVE and reading the tombstone, teleport to Ellay and get Teddy.
- Teddy's starting level is good enough -- use method #2's strategy
- save time not needing to level the third character, but waste time dancing in Ellay
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Here's an incomplete levelling chart
http://starmen.net/mother1/miscinfo/levelup.txt
Well, I can confirm that you can finish the game with Teddy, but it just involves destroying EVE before ditching Loid. Probably not the part of that question that you wanted confirmed.
Personally, I've never gone up to the summit without activating EVE. Perhaps the game assumes this, and only checks for the other seven melodies when talking to the queen.
In fact, someone should start a new file (what's the code for 255 XP from each enemy?) and get to the summit with no melodies, then test to see which combinations are actually necessary. We may end up having a situation similar to Zelda Ocarina of Time (there, only two out of five temples are checked to give access to Ganon's Tower).
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 87
Location: California, USA
Floogal wrote:
In fact, someone should start a new file (what's the code for 255 XP from each enemy?) and get to the summit with no melodies, then test to see which combinations are actually necessary.
There are two useful codes for test running.
PKOSNXZK - Enemy EXP times 255.
YEVLSYIA - No HP loss.
It's a great sight to see Ninten level up to 6 after the Lamp ^_^ Then to level 14 after the Doll O_O
I'll work on this cheat test run for a bit, then I'm out for roughly 6 hours, then I'll be back to check up on things.
If you see me posting, I'm most likely being a douche.
<small>Working on:
not ever coming here again</small>
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 87
Location: California, USA
Another quick checkback. Yes, I am still going to work on this. No, I probably won't finish this year. Yes, real life is more important to me ^_^
Even if I don't go through with the run, I hope what I do will influence future runners of this game.
That being said, I don't think you'd be too impressed with the cheated run. It'd be really boring to have to sit through so many level-ups o_o
I might do one with YEVLSYIA only, in fullspeed, but not tonight. Sometime next week if anything.
If you see me posting, I'm most likely being a douche.
<small>Working on:
not ever coming here again</small>
I don't know if it would be all that boring to watch someone just speed through the game at as high a level as possible. :3
But anyway. You could see if Halamantariel and/or Nitrodon might be willing to do a joint venture on this project with you. They did great on EarthBound. ;3
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 87
Location: California, USA
It's Wednesday and I haven't done any more work on this. Since I'm clearing out my hard drive for reasons I'd rather not explain, I'm putting this project on hiatus. I will continue visiting the forums, and I'll devote my spare time to helping out anyone who wants to do a run on this. Though, if no one wants to, I will eventually continue ^_^
If you see me posting, I'm most likely being a douche.
<small>Working on:
not ever coming here again</small>
Okay, well, I'm still going to play through the game another time or two so I can refamiliarize myself with it and provide more help when you're ready to make the run.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 87
Location: California, USA
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
Okay, well, I'm still going to play through the game another time or two so I can refamiliarize myself with it and provide more help when you're ready to make the run.
Righteous. ^_^ It may only be a couple days (I get over things easily, usually), but it might also take a couple months. Either way, I will NOT give up! Last time I gave up, it was about half a day in to the project and I quit the forums o.o BUT NOT THIS TIME!
...Yeah, I'll continue on Saturday ^_^
If you see me posting, I'm most likely being a douche.
<small>Working on:
not ever coming here again</small>
