Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 87
Location: California, USA
The GBA version would be the "legal" choice in this situation, but I do things for the fans, and what they want is English!
Hopefully I'll be able to post a WIP before school...uh...today. If not, expect one tomorrow FOR JUSTICE.
If you see me posting, I'm most likely being a douche.
<small>Working on:
not ever coming here again</small>
I've only recently played this for the first time. Here are some of my thoughts
note I'm using starman.net's official names for the characters Ninten, Ana, Loid, and Teddy.
Heavily abuse bread crumbs. For example, use bread in front of the Podunk Mayor's building, and then use the crumbs immediately after freeing Pippi. I'm pretty sure that if you teleport or go to Magicant, the crumbs will no longer take you back to your original spot.
I can drive home the peculiarities of PSI-learning with the following example. Once, while power-levelling Ana to level 8, she ended up learning 3 new PSI's after a single battle. Also, one of those new PSI's was PK Freeze beta, even though she still didn't know the alpha version.
Also, let me dash any hopes of a Ninten-Loid-Teddy party if you reach Ellay without Ana in your party, the crowd won't let you dance (they damand a trio), and Teddy therefore won't appear to spar and then join you.
Now, for the levelling
Ninten needs to be at level 25 to fight the dragon, which requires (according to Starman.net) a total of 13583 experience points. This can be reached by defeating 28 red snakes (500 XP each) -- 55 if one other ally is alive, 82 if two allies are alive. (note that I'm not accounting for any other battles, like Starman Jr.).
Here are some of the party options as I can see it
1) Just Ninten and Loid
- level up Ninten to 29 so that he knows Lifeup beta, and level up Loid until he has about 80 HP
- during the waiting phase of the Giegue battle, set up a PSI shield on both characters
- during the singing phase, Ninten alternates between himself and Loid with Lifeup beta, while Loid sings away
- skips Snowman and Reindeer station altogether
2) Ninten, Loid, and Ana
- Ninten at level 25 is fine, get Ana to level 22 for lifeup pi, and Loid to 80 HP
- after shielding everyone, Ana repeatedly used lifeup pi (stopping occasionally to use a PSI Stone) while the other two sing
3) Ninten and Ana (and ignored Loid)
- Ninten at level 25, Ana with 80 HP, Loid at 1
- same as method #1, but Ana heals while Ninten sings
- since Loid isn't levelled, need fewer snakes
4) Ninten, Ana, and Teddy
- after killing EVE and reading the tombstone, teleport to Ellay and get Teddy.
- Teddy's starting level is good enough -- use method #2's strategy
- save time not needing to level the third character, but waste time dancing in Ellay
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 87
Location: California, USA
Floogal wrote:
Heavily abuse bread crumbs. For example, use bread in front of the Podunk Mayor's building, and then use the crumbs immediately after freeing Pippi.
Augh! Stupid stupid stupid me! I knew I should've started tomorrow so I could've read this over!
Wow, thanks for the tips. Major, major thanks. I'm starting a new version tomorrow for sure. This one had a bit too many flaws anyway.
I'll put up the WIP, of course, from tonight's test run.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/3866/TTR%20-%20EarthboundZero.fcm
Enjoy all the mistakes I make. ^_^
I have a revised route for the Graveyard up to getting the Franklin Badge, which I'll share as well.
1. IMPORTANT: Take all three items from basement (Bread, Bat, and Diary).
2. Proceed as normal, leave breadcrumbs outside of Mayor's office.
3. Rescue Pippi, use Bread again to return to Mayor's office.
4. Get $100 reward from Mayor, head to Department Store
5. Get three Breads and Canary Chick.
6. Head to Canary Village. Leave breadcrumbs outside the split in the path back to your house.
7. Give Canary Chick to Laura, get second melody.
8. Use Bread again to return to main path.
9. Proceed up to Pippi's house and get Franklin Badge.
I'll still be up and probably on if you want to ask me anything. I'll most likely be route planning. I'm doing some now, as I completely forgot to post this message about 45 minutes ago -_-
Oh well. Starmen.net is helping ^_^
EDIT WITH LEVEL-UP PLANNING:
This planning is NOT FINAL. Just what you might expect.
I looked through Starmen and found a few enemies worth levelling up on early in the game. Namely, Elephants and Big Woodohs.
Elephants are found at the zoo. Why am I finding that statement so hilariously obvious? ...Anyway, they give about 60 EXP, each one having 70 HP. That's fine and dandy, I'm sure I can manipulate a few SMAAAASH attacks plus dodging (the thing hits pretty hard from what I remember).
Once I get to Magicant, I'll have a couple enemies to level up on: Big Woodohs (70 HP, 100 EXP), and Groucho. I forgot exactly how much Groucho gives when you let him leave. 40-something if I remember correctly. Thing is with Big Woodohs, also from what I remember, they explode after battle. Unless I'm just thinking of Earthbound (the Starmen page doesn't say the Woodohs explode). But still.
The Starman Jr. only gives 30 EXP, so if I completely avoid all battles up until him, I'll have 41 by the time I go to Magicant. Which, is probably not good. Though it's a simple 30 EXP if I get him to use his one-hit kill attack.
I'll probably end up just fighting Grouchos all the way through Magicant every time I go through. The Fish gives 140 EXP, too.
I'll try to fight most of the enemies in Duncan's factory (mostly Fireballs and Scrappers, as they give the most EXP, and Bombers so Loid can stock up on Bombs).
Afterwards, Ultra Barbots, then Lone Wolves in Snowman (using Bombs). Alarm Ghosts and Armors in the Rosemary Mansion, then back to Ultra Barbots for the desert. Ultra Barbots can cast the one-hit kill PK Beam, so I can manipulate it to hit Ninten and have it reflect.
Once I get to Youngtown, the Red Snakes start appearing, and hopefully I'll be somewhat on my way to level 25. I'll be fighting Red Snakes up until I get Teddy, who'll help me with the Dragon before I head to Mt. Itoi.
Mt. Itoi, I'm avoiding every random battle up until I get EVE, then using her to mow down enemies for some quick EXP.
This obviously isn't final, as I might be able to find a better way to level up either without certain characters or whatever. Right now my route is what the "normal" route would be in EB0.
My goal is to ultimately spread out levelling up instead of taking it in huge chunks before major battles like in most RPG TASes. As long as you have good luck, you don't even need to level up to 3 until Magicant!
If you see me posting, I'm most likely being a douche.
<small>Working on:
not ever coming here again</small>
2. It may be updated some day ― we shouldn't showcase old versions when a new version is available. It's an inconvenience for the author of the hack and it's inconvenience for the audience.
See, this slightly confuses me, because older versions of official games aren't allowed, but not hacks. I'm sure there's some explanation behind this; I just can't be bothered with sorting out why.
See, this slightly confuses me, because older versions of official games aren't allowed, but not hacks. I'm sure there's some explanation behind this; I just can't be bothered with sorting out why.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 87
Location: California, USA
The Bisqman speaketh.
Back on topic, I got school in about two hours so I'm calling it a morning (California time). If you have questions about the run, hey. You're lookin' at a topic. About the run. That you may ask questions in.
If I'm not doing this, I have a SECRET UBERPROJECT I'M WORKING ON AS WELL THAT YOU WON'T FIND OUT UNTIL... yeah, you're right, I don't have one.
Or do I?
Anyway, good day to y'all, I'll be back tomorrow with a WIP for all you lovers out there.
If you see me posting, I'm most likely being a douche.
<small>Working on:
not ever coming here again</small>
Haha, fair enough. I would delve further, but I don't really care too much about it, and I don't feel like dragging this off-topic and ending up having this split into another topic. ;p
DJ FozzBozz wrote:
The thing is, the english cartridge exists, but it was unplayable because of one little bug. So someone unrelated to Nintendo or had to modify one bit of the code or something like that to make the game playable on an american console. At least that's what I read.
I haven't played through the entire game, but I've seen some pics of the final battle against <zomg spoilers!>, and if there are images that far into the game, then I can't see what possible bug would make the game unplayable, unless you went into a specific area in the game and messed around a bit.
At least, I would think so.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 87
Location: California, USA
Well, the one I have is the patched one, apparently. I dunno, I just downloaded it from (WHOOPS I CAN'T SAY ANYTHING DUE TO LEGAL ISSUES) and it worked perfectly.
I had no idea there was this whole elaborate patch story until I really started researching the game.
All I can say is, find a copy of the patched one =/ If it's a huge issue, I'll run it on the Japanese version...
I think the game wins the award for the most ROM controversy. This is a bigger issue than gameplay itself...
Edit: I'll have to plan around a couple things, most especially my route. I'm gonna download some maps from Starmen so I don't accidentally savestate in the wrong direction like I did in one of my previous WIPs.
I don't know exactly how long the movie's gonna be. I can get pretty far through the game in about 6 hours (with major levelling up), so I'm thinking the finished result is gonna be between 2-3 hours, depending on how Mt. Itoi goes.
I'll get started on it later tonight. I gots myself a real life date! ^_^
If you see me posting, I'm most likely being a douche.
<small>Working on:
not ever coming here again</small>
You know what, don't worry about it. Just come up with a decent plan and do a test run on whatever ROM you feel like, and by the time you finish, we'll probably have come up with a good decision on what ROM to use and we'll fix all the mistakes in the final run.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 87
Location: California, USA
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
You know what, don't worry about it. Just come up with a decent plan and do a test run on whatever ROM you feel like, and by the time you finish, we'll probably have come up with a good decision on what ROM to use and we'll fix all the mistakes in the final run.
Thanks ^_^ 'Cept I don't wanna get too good at one ROM and end up having to do the other. But that's why I get good at... BOTH OF THEM!
Edit: Oh, and I'm not on my date yet, obviously.
If you see me posting, I'm most likely being a douche.
<small>Working on:
not ever coming here again</small>
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 87
Location: California, USA
Yeah, I had a lot of optimization errors in my run. I don't have an unpatched ROM, so I can't view that.
I'm back, anyway, food poisoning issues =( I'm gonna spend some time working on a new test run (b/w optimization and more like what I'd use in the final version of the run).
Watch for a WIP in a couple hours.
Note: The RNG seems to be more time based than cursor movement based.
Note2: The new WIP will likely end in the same place as the old simply for frame comparison issues.
Note3: I'm current 1225 frames (roughly 20.5 seconds) ahead of my first WIP, and I'm still at Ninten's house ^_^. This is probably mostly due to not foolin' around with the names and optimizing the battles a bit more.
I'll post the actual WIP once I get the Franklin Badge, with comparison charts all the way through (I WILL lose a few frames picking up the Bread from the present, but it'll be worth it concerning how annoying the Graveyard is -_-).
If you see me posting, I'm most likely being a douche.
<small>Working on:
not ever coming here again</small>
Maybe you should go ahead and find the ROM that Nitrodon used so you can watch Nitrodon's run and see if you missed anything important. I think I saw a spot in the cemetery where you missed a shortcut through a diagonal crack in the scenery, for instance. I think there's also a technique of putting "unnecessary" diagonal movement into your path so you end up facing an object immediately upon reaching it rather than having to stop and turn toward it. The ROM I have that I watched Nitrodon's run on is called "Earthbound (U) (Prototype).nes". (Your ROM is labeled "Earthbound Zero (Demiforce Hack).nes" for me.)
Now, has anyone started to plan equipment for the characters? I noticed Nitrodon didn't take the Plastic Bat. When is Ninten going to get his first weapon?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 87
Location: California, USA
I went ahead and stopped right before talking to the Mayor just to post this wonderful WIP.
Right now I'm 75.65 seconds faster than my original run. Not bad, eh?
Of course there'll be more optimizations. I watched Nitrodon's run and I see a LOT of stuff I need to improve on (the path I take, manipulation of SMAAASH attacks, gaining the Franklin Badge at the Graveyard), which, naturally, will come in the next version.
At the Mayor, I was behind Nitrodon by 490 frames, and I'd be losing more with the route I was planning on taking.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/3892/TTR2%20-%20EarthboundZero.fcm
There's my run for the Demiforce patch version. I'll probably get started on version 3 tonight. I'm off school Friday to Monday cause of holiday stuff, so I'll have a lot of chances to work on it.
Which, I'll need ^_^
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
Now, has anyone started to plan equipment for the characters? I noticed Nitrodon didn't take the Plastic Bat. When is Ninten going to get his first weapon?
The Boomerang in Magicant is the best weapon for Ninten. It has the second most attack power out of all of Ninten's equippable weapons (all his bats plus the Slingshot and Boomerang), only being outweighed by Hank's Bat on Mt. Itoi. Not to mention you can get the Boomerang without fighting ANY unnecessary battles, AND so early in the game as well!
If you see me posting, I'm most likely being a douche.
<small>Working on:
not ever coming here again</small>
The bread will be a definite time saver. Think of how many more frames you will save than lose by optimization with the bread crumbs. :3
I think even during a TAS, you will have to somehow make it so in the zoo the Starman's attacks will miss. One PK Beam and you're going to die, no doubt about it.
EDIT: This WIP looks much better than the original rough draft. ^^
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 87
Location: California, USA
Kitsune wrote:
I think even during a TAS, you will have to somehow make it so in the zoo the Starman's attacks will miss. One PK Beam and you're going to die, no doubt about it.
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
No, you want him to use PK Beam so it'll hit your Franklin Badge.
One PK Beam r, reflected off of Franklin Badge, kills him in one hit. ^_^
If you see me posting, I'm most likely being a douche.
<small>Working on:
not ever coming here again</small>
Oh, alright then. ;3
I just never had the Franklin badge when fighting him I guess. Always had to level to 15+ before fighting him cause I kept dying otherwise. :3
Well, this is good news. ^^
Thing is with Big Woodohs, also from what I remember, they explode after battle. Unless I'm just thinking of Earthbound (the Starmen page doesn't say the Woodohs explode).
Yeah, they do burst into flames. I'm not sure if there's any way to avoid the flames apart from maybe some powerful psi, but I found you can halve the damage by equipping a water pendant.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
