Just making sure, but we are grabbing the key in the 1st room (using hookshot) and then the key in the floormaster room that is next to the block maze room after the megajump right?
No. We have to collect the small key from the Stalfos pair on the first floor. Otherwise, there's no way to get the bow -- the upper-floor Stalfos doesn't appear and you'll be forced to jump down the hole, fight the pair, and retrace your steps. As for the other small key, it simply comes down to whichever one is faster. I originally suggested the Floormaster (jump attack + quick spin), but AKA thought the one in the entry chamber was faster. If I recall correctly, GuanoBowl said the Floormaster saves more time, so I'll trust his judgment.
Bow early would be really nice if we could somehow make it happen, but at this point it appears that the odds are slim. The loading point must be triggered from the other end, so levitating from the first floor is a no-go.
Joined: 7/4/2005
Posts: 714
Location: Albuqueruqe, New Mexico
mwl wrote:
Acryte wrote:
Just making sure, but we are grabbing the key in the 1st room (using hookshot) and then the key in the floormaster room that is next to the block maze room after the megajump right?
No. We have to collect the small key from the Stalfos pair on the first floor. Otherwise, there's no way to get the bow.
Oh, didnt know that. K
Change my sig. again, and I will murder your pet fish.
if you can find a way to fall in the void... do it the way I said above, then fall in the void and you can respawn back in the room up top and fight the 2nd set of stalfos.
if you can find a way to fall in the void... do it the way I said above, then fall in the void (or deathwarp) and you can respawn back in the room up top and fight the 2nd set of stalfos.
Really? You think this is faster?
Climbing the vines takes more time than many would presume because the hookshot can only reach about halfway up the wall.
The Stalfos pair isn't a huge diversion as I see it. A deathwarp would probably take more time than whatever's needed to reach that battle arena, and a respawn would depend on how easily one can get into the void.
I can jumpslash through either door on the second floor, but when I get outside to what appears to be pure blackness, I don't fall into the void -- see the pic I attached earlier. The other room's there, just that none of the textures are actually loaded.
only if you find a quick way to fall into the void... then you can fight the 1st set, fall in the void, fight the second set, and grab the bow. Deathwarp won't work, that will warp to entrance. But void respawn will do it... but we don't have much to work w/ and bombhover is slow. But yeah it wouldn't save much time anyways. But if you did do it, I would grab the key after killing the 1st stalfos set and skip the one in the 1st room.
Yes, I understand what you mean...
The key in the entry chamber is about a 25-second diversion based on Guano's previous run.
Roadmap:
Forest Temple
Kokiri Forest - Deathwarp
=== Target: 1:38/1:39 ===
Temple of Time - Learn Prelude of Light (~1'45")
Hyrule Field - SS to Lake Hylia
Fishing Hole - Swordless Link*
Hyrule Field - Item manipulation**
Warp to ToT w/Prelude
Temple of Time - Warp back in time
Warp forward in time for Light Arrow B
Ganon's Castle w/out Rainbow Bridge
=== Target: 1:43/1:44 ===
Inside Ganon's Castle - new trials skip
Defeat monsters with explosives & arrows
Ganondorf - Stun w/Light Arrow B & re-equip MS for low stabs
Tower escape
Ganon
=== Target: 1:55/1:56 ===
Wrap-up dialogue text
=== Target: 1:59:xx ===
* Equip Hover Boots & cast fishing line, then move to door w/the line cast
** See AKA's original instructions:
11. Go back towards ToT
12. In hyrule field (Not in lake hylia) Pause and unpause (puts deku stick on B [DON'T PRESS B])
13. Empty bottled fish and catch it again
14. Do backflip and then press bottle button and then B before you hit the ground. (puts bottle on B)
15. Go to ToT
16. Put fish on c-right and make sure deku nuts aren't equipped (not sure but to be safe).
The other option is to superslide to Lake Hylia from Kokiri Forest, and again from Lake Hylia to Temple of Time. This saves the warp cutscenes, but I doubt it'd be faster.
Joined: 7/4/2005
Posts: 714
Location: Albuqueruqe, New Mexico
well, is this the only place you can do this?
http://download.yousendit.com/BD2498493102A968
I used 9 bombchu's to get up there and wasted a couple of bombs in another place. Can any enemies drop bombs for me in the Forest Temple? I tried killing the Stalfos at different frames to see what would happen but I am only getting magic meters, deku nuts, hearts, and rupees.
EDIT: Nevermind, I dont need any bombchu's, just 3 bombs. 2 for each block I need to get on, and 1 for the boost. That leaves me with 12 bombchus and 3 bombs.
Change my sig. again, and I will murder your pet fish.
EDIT: Nevermind, I dont need any bombchu's, just 3 bombs. 2 for each block I need to get on, and 1 for the boost. That leaves me with 12 bombchus and 3 bombs.
Heh.
Just remember...(in general)
* Bombs for pure vertical distance
* Bombchus for horizontal and vertical distance, as in a "staircase."
Please release another WIP when you get the bow. We'll check for desynchs and imperfections, and then you can do a deathwarp and proceed to doing Acryte's sequence break to Phantom Ganon.
It is an AVI.
EDIT: Whoa thats pretty cool although you have a serious problem now, I assume you entered the FT with 9 bombs that means you're probally gonna have 9 bombchus and no bombs left by the end of it, which means no superslides or quick deathwarps. Personally I think you'd benifit from at least one bomb drop in the Lost Woods although ideally since no matter what you'll need to manipulate a enough bombs drops to fill up you're whole inventory. As I was also saying many pages back don't worry about bombs and bombchus once you're inside Ganon's Castle as the beamos in the Spirit chamber drops them and there is a chest of 20 bombchu's in the next room.
It is an AVI.
EDIT: Whoa thats pretty cool although you have a serious problem now, I assume you entered the FT with 9 bombs that means you're probally gonna have 9 bombchus and no bombs left by the end of it, which means no superslides or quick deathwarps. Personally I think you'd benifit from at least one bomb drop in the Lost Woods although ideally since no matter what you'll need to manipulate a enough bombs drops to fill up you're whole inventory. As I was also saying many pages back don't worry about bombs and bombchus once you're inside Ganon's Castle as the beamos in the Spirit chamber drops them and there is a chest of 20 bombchu's in the next room.
He was calling on bkDJ to make another encoded WIP video.
My current project: Something mysterious (oooooh!)
My username is all lower-case letters. Please get it right :(
Joined: 7/4/2005
Posts: 714
Location: Albuqueruqe, New Mexico
WIP wil be released as soon as I am done with the Temple.
Edit: I am in the twisty room. I dont think the Temple has much flaws.
A question I asked AKA(Dont know if it went through) was that if the enemies in the Market area drop bombs. This would help me out a lot with a superslide from Hyrule Field to Lake Hylia. I have 2 hearts left, and this leaves me with taking a heart off from being captured by the "Monsters that hang from the ceiling" which would take me back to the beginning(which is perfecto) leaving me with 1 heart and then taking the damage boost which leaves me with 1/2 a heart to die fast.
Now, if the enemies n the market drop bombs, I can quickly drop a bomb and save/warp to the ToT or I can hop down the stairs in the Sacred Forest Meadow and get killed by an enemy.
Nevermind, AKA just told me that they drop Magic Jars
Change my sig. again, and I will murder your pet fish.
Very nice trick guano, also... yeah, they only drop magic jars. There are 3 patches of bushes right outside the entrance to hyrule field, but it is a little out of the way.
MWL - no, bombs can be used for horizontal distance... quite a bit really, but only if you are descending.
AKA, yeah too bad we don't have gold scale huh. Does your bottle have anything in it? Doesn't it have a fish? Can you bottle dive and then go to zora's domain and use the hookshot ladder trick to get to the hylia warp? would it even be faster? You'd need to grab another bug or fish or something though.
Is it really best to use a deathwarp ToT, as deaths cost quite a lot of time espeacially when you need to save quit, the time saved from using the PoL is quite minimal in my opinion espeacially when you need to enter Hyrule anyway for the BA. Of course you could test both going to Kokiri >> Lake Hylia >> ToT and
deathwarp >> ToT >> learn Prelude(this in itself is a diversion) >> Lake Hylia >> play prelude.
Then again it might be extensive testing them out but it could make the difference between getting a Sub-2.
I have 2 hearts left, and this leaves me with taking a heart off from being captured by the "Monsters that hang from the ceiling" which would take me back to the beginning(which is perfecto)
I highly doubt that's faster, unless you have no quick way to lose 1.5 hearts before picking up the bow. That's two rooms' worth of backtracking, and the Wallmasters don't grab you until after quite a few seconds of inactivity in the room.
Acryte wrote:
MWL - no, bombs can be used for horizontal distance... quite a bit really, but only if you are descending.
I know...it's wasn't meant to be a comprehensive list.
Acryte wrote:
AKA, yeah too bad we don't have gold scale huh. Does your bottle have anything in it? Doesn't it have a fish? Can you bottle dive and then go to zora's domain and use the hookshot ladder trick to get to the hylia warp? would it even be faster? You'd need to grab another bug or fish or something though.
We don't have quick access to Zora's Domain. Recall that after clearing the Forest Temple, we end up not in the SFM, but in the Kokiri Forest where the Great Deku Tree once stood. So to do the above, the route will need to be KF -> LW/HF -> ZR -> ZD -> Bottle dive -> LH which adds up to 5-6 transition screens. As far as I know, the fastest way to Lake Hylia is to superslide there directly, either from ToT (following a deathwarp) or the forest.
AKA wrote:
Is it really best to use a deathwarp ToT, as deaths cost quite a lot of time espeacially when you need to save quit, the time saved from using the PoL is quite minimal in my opinion
I don't think it's that minimal. Entering Hyrule Field means just exiting the Lake Hylia area, right? You can skip climbing the ladder, supersliding across half the field, and watching at least four transition screens (HF -> Castle gates, Gates -> Mkt, Mkt -> ToT grounds, ToT grounds -> ToT)
Joined: 7/4/2005
Posts: 714
Location: Albuqueruqe, New Mexico
mwl wrote:
GuanoBowl wrote:
I have 2 hearts left, and this leaves me with taking a heart off from being captured by the "Monsters that hang from the ceiling" which would take me back to the beginning(which is perfecto)
I highly doubt that's faster, unless you have no quick way to lose 1.5 hearts before picking up the bow. That's two rooms' worth of backtracking, and the Wallmasters don't grab you until after quite a few seconds of inactivity in the room.
Well, if I die and not save/continue, and then beat the Forest Temple, will I just go from KF --> HF (Is there a peahat to superslide off?) --> LH and so forth?
Change my sig. again, and I will murder your pet fish.
Well, if I die and not save/continue, and then beat the Forest Temple, will I just go from KF --> HF (Is there a peahat to superslide off?) --> LH and so forth?
If you have bombs, I'm almost certain that supersliding from the ToT is faster, because it puts you in a great position to climb that ladder to Lake Hylia. Otherwise, there's a peahat in Hyrule Field near the entrance to Kokiri Forest (but you'd want to use a bomb to superslide out of KF, so in the end it makes no difference inventory-wise.)
So you'll be doing two deathwarps:
Forest Temple up to bow
Deathwarp (Don't Save, but Continue)*
Clear Forest Temple
(Insert four minutes of cutscenes here)
Kokiri Forest
Deathwarp again (Save, but don't continue)
Temple of Time - Learn Prelude of Light
Hyrule Field - SS to Lake Hylia*
You'll need at least two bombs as indicated by asterisks. For the Kokiri Forest deathwarp, you can either detonate a bomb or get hit by a Deku Baba, whichever is faster (and supplies pending).
Joined: 7/4/2005
Posts: 714
Location: Albuqueruqe, New Mexico
Acryte:
dumb question. Do you need NL to superslide into the distance? I am having trouble with supersliding off into the distance to get into the boss room.
Change my sig. again, and I will murder your pet fish.
A few questions now that I've done some thinking
1. It may well be worth testing the bottle dive in LW and then hookshot laddder glitch in ZD in order to get to Lake Hylia.
2. I've now definitley think its illogical to use a death warp to the ToT, there is no chance in hell that its quicker to get from there (considering there is also time wasted from the use of a death/savewarp} as opposed to going directly on foot KF the angle into the ladder completely negligable, and anyway why not just use a deathwarp once you have the bottle on B.
3. When this is submitted would this obselete the current run becuase by definition the current run is supposed to be the fastest possible route through the game. Obseleting that would give a greater justification for a all medalion run.
Hey, DK64_MASTER.
I thought it was a .m64 cause off the size, but then AKA i think it was sayd that it was a AVI, so lets forget about that now, and think off the TAS..
May I ask, what was the problem there? I just see Ownage..
Those who sees this must accept that TAS'es almost skips the whole game..
Acryte:
dumb question. Do you need NL to superslide into the distance? I am having trouble with supersliding off into the distance to get into the boss room.
No, he said you do not. What's your current time, by the way?
AKA wrote:
1. It may well be worth testing the bottle dive in LW and then hookshot laddder glitch in ZD in order to get to Lake Hylia.
Please see my previous comment regarding transition screens.
AKA wrote:
2. I've now definitley think its illogical to use a death warp to the ToT, there is no chance in hell that its quicker to get from there (considering there is also time wasted from the use of a death/savewarp} as opposed to going directly on foot KF the angle into the ladder completely negligable, and anyway why not just use a deathwarp once you have the bottle on B.
Well, I initially made the suggestion considering that (1) you have to get out of Kokiri Forest (from the Deku Tree's location -- it's not a direct exit to Hyrule Field), and (2) you have to learn the Prelude of Light anyway, so you might as well take advantage of it. But perhaps you are right...
AKA wrote:
3. When this is submitted would this obselete the current run becuase by definition the current run is supposed to be the fastest possible route through the game. Obseleting that would give a greater justification for a all medalion run.
I think Guano should submit this run as a separate category because the tricks are version-specific. It's ultimately up to the staff to decide, though.
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
mwl wrote:
I think Guano should submit this run as a separate category because the tricks are version-specific. It's ultimately up to the staff to decide, though.
That will never happen. Runs for games have to run on a standardized version of the ROM. If one is faster than the rest, it will obsolete all other versions submitted. There is no reason to have a 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, etc publication for the same game just because of minute differences.
Guano - yea, you don't need NL. It is hard as hell though. I mean, if you can do a backflip, it makes it 1000x easier to do a superslide, but you can't because there isn't enough room. Just go as far forward as you can... till you will go into the door if you go anymore forward. Then after that, PLACE the bomb; don't shield drop it. And if will be farther in. Then run back, and then time that roll. Once you get into the slide (and have started moving a tiny bit, switch to the hoverboots. If you have hoverboots on initially, you won't have enough speed to get to the boss door. Also, slide parallel to the ground if you know what I mean. Then when you switch to hoverboots, hold right on the joystick so that you curve to the left and into the boss warp.
