It's faster than Pom's movie but if your first thoughts was this movie aimed to obsolete POM's movie, then you are wrong.
Yes, it's faster but another ROM version is used.
We've heard many rumors about Minus world -1 could be beaten and that Worlds -2, -3 and -4 exist. But in NES and Unisystem versions, the level is repeating when you enter the pipe at "end" of level. We've seen hoaxes like that but nothing proved us it was true.
Except - 4, -2 and -3 really exist.
After you beat -3, the game has been beaten once. Some people are claiming that you must deliver the princess to beat the game. I am saying, I saved 2 princesses. In any case, I think I should compare it to some Zelda glitched runs where some goals hasn't been achieved.
Note that when you beat the game, level select and 2nd quest modes are activated. So, I purposely stop the movie later to press B to return to title screen to let people verify by themself.
adelikat: Accepting for publication. Bisqwit: … as a concept demo. This will not obsolete Pom's movie, not the least because it's a different game with different rules. (The differences in the games (NES SMB1, FDS SMB1) are completely unintentional and driven by the platform change, but striking in this particular movie.) Bisqwit: Processing.
I don't really have a whole lot of rights to speak around here and I don't want to bring up any old arguments but I think I'll throw my opinions out there even though it is a little late.
I think this run absolutely beats the game. You can have "bad endings" for not finishing a game properly (for instance in Chrono Cross you can beat up the final boss and still beat the game, but you're really supposed to beat it with the chrono cross element). Also just because the game is finished in a way the creators did not intend doesn't mean it wasn't beaten either (like in ALttP you're not SUPPOSED to be able to skip Ganon, but you can and it still ends the game). I think that this should have obseleted the current run because even if the version is different, it's the same game and it's completed faster. There's already a warpless run of SMB that shows all the levels that the warped run shows. If there wasn't I would want the old run to be kept because it shows things that the minus world run does not, but those things are already shown in the warpless run.
As for the whole "concept/demos" thing I agree with Nitsuja that it should apply to runs that break the rules of the site but are still interesting enough to be published anyway. This movie doesn't break any rules, but it was still put in the other section, so I guess Bisqwit has a different definition.
I think that this should have obseleted the current run because even if the version is different, it's the same game and it's completed faster. There's already a warpless run of SMB that shows all the levels that the warped run shows. If there wasn't I would want the old run to be kept because it shows things that the minus world run does not, but those things are already shown in the warpless run.
I don't think it should obsolete (or, rather, have obsoleted) the current run, just like the "glitched" Zelda 2 run should not obsolete the "regular" one - they should coexist.
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TGPrimus wrote:
like in ALttP you're not SUPPOSED to be able to skip Ganon, but you can and it still ends the game
Bad example -> you concede the point.
ALttP has a game-breaking glitch publication and a normal publication. The heavily glitched run did not obsolete the non-glitched run (I know that it came out first, but you know what I mean). That being said, this should be published aside the other SMB run. That is, it should not obsolete it.
Yes, but my point is if the glitched ALttP run obseleted the regular run visitors to the site would miss out on most of the game that would be interesting to see optimized. I would say that there is a warped version and a non-warped version.
If Phil's run had obseleted the old run, we wouldn't be missing anything because the warpless SMB run would still exist and that shows everything and more that the current warped run shows. Keeping the current warped run around for that purpose is redundant, so why keep it? The way I see it Phil's run and the old run are both warped runs and Phil found a better route.
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TGPrimus wrote:
The way I see it Phil's run and the old run are both warped runs and Phil found a better route.
Uhh... a glitched route on a very different version of the game is not the same as "a better route."
Using your logic, if someone makes a 100% ALttP run, should it obsolete the any% nonwarp run? I mean, we still wouldn't be missing out on all the story and whatnot if we did that, right?
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It's more like
", should the any% nonwarp run absolete 100% ALttP run", not backwards. This run IS shorter ^^ And finding rom where this trick works is not simpliest task too.
Joined: 8/1/2004
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Well, no. The example is this:
SMB has an any% which is published, a warpless (100%), and the new glitched low% run.
ALttP has a glitched low% run and an any% run that is published.
According to TGPrimus, the glitched low% of SMB should obsolete the any%, since we won't miss anything due to the inclusion of the 100% warpless. That being said, the same logic would permit that if a 100% ALttP run were to be published, the any% would no longer offer anything of merit (much as the SMB any% doesn't), and so the 100% with the glitched low% would obsolete the any%.
So yeah. Bad logic, unless TGPrimus wants to make some double standards.
I see your point and I think I change my opinion on the matter. Trying to beat SMB in 5 minutes the conventional way is something that has been attempted by countless people and having this one the site is important.
For the sake of argument though, usually an any % run has an interesting route change or forces you to fight at reduced power when compared to a 100% run. POM's SMB run and the warpless run are practically identical in the levels they use. Defining the SMB platformer games in these terms is hard since there isn't any item collection and the route is almost completely linear. I would consider POM and Phil's run to be in the same category. The thing that distinguishes an any% run from a low% run is that a low% is slower, any% run refers to minimum% needed to make it fastest. Phil's run is not slower.
Calling these % runs at all is somewhat nonsensical though since there isn't any item collection going on and there's basically only one route. Still maybe these should be considered different games?
There are a lot of things that are still up for debate and may never be solved.
There are still some problems with the concept/demo section such as: 4 CPU Monopoly is there..but why? Because it's slower than the 1 CPU? If that's the case then why aren't the SMB2 Peach run and SMB2j Luigi run in that section?
Maybe we need ANOTHER section with something like "slower but done in a different way so it's still interesting" section or something. Or maybe we're all just content to there being no clear definition of what that section is really all about.
Edit: added some stuff above after a couple posts that people put up while I was writing this one ^^
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zefiris wrote:
Zurreco wrote:
the 100% with the glitched low% would obsolete the any%.
What's wrong with it? o_o Shortest movie and 100% full movie. We need something else?..
The subtle differences of a huge game breaking glitch to make the shortest movie sets it apart. There are too many incidences where this has happened (ALttP, Zelda2, CotM). That being said, the idea that 100% and hyper-glitch are all we need is, while an fair opinion, totally bogus. A "normal" fast playthrough is what this site was somewhat built on, just as all speedruns are.
I don't think that you can say there can be an any%, a 100%, a low%, and a hyper glitch for every game, I think that each game should be looked at individually. There are so many different ways to play a game that any% can apply to a ton of different things. You can create countless numbers of runs from the same game, but done in a different way and at different speeds. For instance, you could have an SMB2 run for each character. This is obviously in excess.
The reason I changed my opinion to allowing POM's run to remain is because countless people have attempted this route infinite times. Now that it's on the site they get to see what they can never do.
Maybe having a ton of different runs for the same game isn't such a bad idea after all, as long as theyre all excellently optomized-the more the merrier. I have no life, I could always use more stuff to watch =P
Having watched the AVI, it just doesn't seem very interesting and the game itself is just too incomplete and dodgy so I'll add my meh vote.
EDIT: Does this game have the highest number of non yes votes for a published run.
I attempted to translate English of the video into Japanese.
「注意：この-1ステージはNES版から難しくなっています。
これはファミコンディスクシステムです。」
「ここで終わり？このテクニックは終わりではありませんが、なぜなら本当のステージで終わるからです。」
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Bisqwit wrote:
… as a concept demo. This will not obsolete Pom's movie, not the least because it's a different game with different rules. (The differences in the games (NES SMB1, FDS SMB1) are completely unintentional and driven by the platform change, but striking in this particular movie.)
Came across this during my archiving project and was curious why it is in the NES category on the front page instead of in the Concept demos and hacks section?
… as a concept demo. This will <em>not</em> obsolete Pom's movie, not the least because it's a different game with different rules. (The differences in the games (NES SMB1, FDS SMB1) are completely unintentional and driven by the platform change, but striking in this particular movie.)
Came across this during my archiving project and was curious why it is in the NES category on the front page instead of in the Concept demos and hacks section?
I changed my mind about the "concept demo"ness (first 4 words of the quote). The rest of my words still hold though.
It's not a concept demo because it's a real game and it arguably beats the game.
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Gothca. I'll include it in the NES section. One more question: is there a way in the goodrom name to determine an FDS vs. NES cartridge? I'm sure there is but there's a ton of hacks for SMB and I don't want to choose the wrong one.
FDS "cartridges" are not cartridges; they're disks. They also have a distinct format (the file begins with "FDS" instead of "NES"), and are usually named .fds.
This should be enough to distinguish them.
