I've looked around the forums and IRC and it seems there's been no mention of this game thus far, so I figured I'd get the ball rollin'; I've lately been thinking of attempting to TAS this, as it seems to be a fairly newbie-friendly game (fairly simple gameplay rules, no particularly complicated maneuvers it seems, the few enemies there are can be pretty much ignored, etc.) without making for a "tape down right, recieve TAS" sort of movie.
I've messed around with it in frame advance and found only one or two (rather minor) tricks so far, but the big thing stopping me from starting work on it right away is the fact that the patterns of gold bars are randomly chosen out of a few preset possibilities at the start of each stage*. Obviously this means finding the optimal route through each possible pattern in each stage then actually playing through all of them to compare and find the best ones, which can't be done effectively (nor could the TAS itself) without any sort of luck manipulation to force certain stages to occur. So I ask, has anyone ever looked into this while messing around with the game before, and might have any insights into it and/or ideas for starting points to look into?
* http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/nes/file/clu_clu_land_b.txt Copy-paste this (apparently they hate direct links) and check the diagrams if you're confused
I very much doubt this could be made entertaining.
It's a fun game to play, sure, but the entire thing is just repetition. Also, there is no end to the game as far as I know.
EDIT: I'd recommend doing some work on it if you want, still. Practice is always good but I very much doubt Clu-Clu Land would ever be published unless you could completely glitch out and break the game.
there are other games on the site that are endless yet have TASes with definite endings (e.g. NES Track and Field) and others that seem very repetitive when watched (NES Karate Kid), you sure?
unfortunately though i doubt there's much room for glitching (aside from mashing the reset button to make it spaz out or something like that), so you may have a point
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
I think it would be hard to define the fastest path to reveal the coins, but i wouldn't mind watching a TAS, unless it's 50 levels long. I guess my patience would go as far as 20 levels tops.
How many levels are there before it starts looping?
there are other games on the site that are endless yet have TASes with definite endings (e.g. NES Track and Field) and others that seem very repetitive when watched (NES Karate Kid), you sure?
Is this an attempt of use the fallacy "because you made mistake A, you should also make mistake B"?
my idea was to simply play the first 5 stages (manipulating to get optimal gold bar patterns of course) once and the bonus stage (which has only one pattern) then end it there since the game loops after that point. it may be good to do a run later on that plays every stage pattern, but the problem with this (according to strategywiki) is that stage 1 doesn't appear in the loops, so you could only play it once, at the start of the game
there are other games on the site that are endless yet have TASes with definite endings (e.g. NES Track and Field) and others that seem very repetitive when watched (NES Karate Kid), you sure?
Is this an attempt of use the fallacy "because you made mistake A, you should also make mistake B"?
Those published movies are mistakes? They shouldn't be there? :(
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
I've spend a little time on this run, and I was considering making a TAS of this game when all my other current projects are completed (so not within the next year).
I think a 2 player movie will be BY FAR the most entertaining possibility for a tas. It will make the movie a lot faster and very impressive to watch, also considering the huge amounts of planning that would be needed.
pdk wrote:
my idea was to simply play the first 5 stages (manipulating to get optimal gold bar patterns of course) once and the bonus stage (which has only one pattern) then end it there since the game loops after that point.
I think the movie should play ALL levels (which are about 20, counting the bonus levels) before input stops. It is true that the first level doesn't loop, so not all the first levels can be played, you can pick the first level you want by luck manipulation. I made a movie of this first level, you can find it here.
Another thing I noticed: to be faster than normal when you don't make a turn is to still put your hand out, and let go as soon as it grabs it.
At this point, I'd recommend even just doing the first level and posting a WIP so that we can see how it might turn out.
I've played Clu-Clu Land enough that my fairly educated opinion is that this game won't work out as a good TAS. I've made that mistake before - my first TAS I completed just wasn't a good game.
Still, do it for yourself and not the site. I learned so much from doing that rejected TAS that it vastly improved my understanding of how to make a proper TAS.
It's paying off, too. My current TAS has two yes votes and my new project has really surprised me with the feedback I'm getting.
I know it's mentioned somewhere, probably repeatedly, that most peoples' first TASes are rejected.
So, again, try this run and see how it pans out. Getting more experienced at TASing will be the worst possible outcome.
EDIT: Baxter makes a good point, too. If this run is to be published it would HAVE to be two players. In fact, I'd love to see a two-player run of Clu-Clu Land. I'm just not sure if it would be entertaining even then. Two players will drastically cut down the time you need to spend on each level, though. :)
Another thing I noticed: to be faster than normal when you don't make a turn is to still put your hand out, and let go as soon as it grabs it.
i found out that trick a couple days ago, just take note that you have to be a bit early with the hand extension or else it'll pop slightly backward instead of forward
i also messed around a bit and found out the frame timings for grabbing a a peg immediately out of a turn, here they are:
edit 2: filled in even more missing frame info, and god I hate how the forum handles tabs (I apologize if the use of cleartype rapes anyone's eyes)
just take note that you have to be a bit early with the hand extension or else it'll pop slightly backward instead of forward
Yeah, I also noticed this... but forgot to mention, since it was a long time ago that I played it.
Doing all levels will also solve one other essential problem for you: since the levels that appear are random (determined when you press start at the select screen), you would have to play all levels anyway, just to figure out which 5 levels you can complete the fastest ;)
the problem of having to find out which levels are fastest can be completely eliminated as well as getting your precious all-levels run; simply soft reset after beating the first stage and repeat this until all of its patterns are played, then carry on with the rest of the video (as you explained on IRC, the game predetermines what patterns will occur when you press start, so it ensures that you get to play each pattern once if you play through the whole thing 4 times). it might be a good idea to reset after beating all the stages to avoid playing stage 1 four times in a row, but the problem with this is that it doesn't guarantee us that the stages from 2 onward won't repeat at all (due to the resetting, plus we don't know for sure what pattern of stages we'll get after every time we reset)
my original plan was to play through 5 stages which would be around 2 minutes with some luck in which stages appear, but now it seems that simply doing a full run of 24 stages (stage 1 played 4 times in a row with resetting, followed by playing the rest of the game through 4 loops, which consists of normal stages 2 through 5 and the bonus stage at the end of each loop) which would be much longer even with 2 players
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
I see, so maybe 8 minutes! I guess that's a little more than I would watch, unless it's really fast paced 2 player action. Why don't you make a first stage for us?
I honestly feel this is one of those games that is DEFINITELY NOT made for TAS'ing by any means... I've been trying to figure out how even a 2 Player run could salvage this idea... and I'm drawing blanks.
Believe me, after having to verify a run on this game that scored just over 1 Million points, just to roll the thing... it'd take a miracle to make me watch again... willingly...
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
Just another random gamer
----
<OmnipotentEntity> How do you people get bored in the span of 10 seconds? Worst ADD ever.
of course, considering that a million-point run would spend forever sidetracking to get extra points from bonuses/enemies as well as looping for ages...
0505Signoff: #nesvideos/pdk ("Behold, I changed my quit message")
0506#nesvideos.Bisqwit pdk: In the second image, I'm thinking you should do the upper right red loop clockwise instead of counter-clockwise
0506#nesvideos.NecroVMX pdk left
0507#nesvideos.Bisqwit pdk: i.e. up, right, down, left, down; not right, up, left, down, down
0507#nesvideos.NecroVMX dude, pdk left
0507#nesvideos.Bisqwit NecroV: Oh.
hooray, looks like it'll be possible to reset at the end of each loop instead of at the end of each first stage (saving lots of time later on), here's how:
(again, forum sucks at handling tabs in posts so yeah)
If you use the code tag, you can write in monospaced text that tabs well, though it is this awful green-on-white color.
Edit: I guess an example would be helpful.
Monospaced font is fun! Though you may still have to type in notepad to get tabs in, then copy and paste. I dunno.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
edit 2: filled in even more missing frame info, and god I hate how the forum handles tabs (I apologize if the use of cleartype rapes anyone's eyes)
any ideas for making them faster?
(again, forum sucks at handling tabs in posts so yeah)
