Just out of curiousity, does nitsuja plan on releasing his custom version of Gens with the recording ability to do player 1 then player 2 and put them together publically, or would he mind sending private copies out or something?
Actually, it would have been in this release, but it needs to be made more configurable first. Don't worry, it's coming.
Okay thanks for the swift response. Looking forward to that version!
Out of curiousity, will he also be adding the "view player" hack he made which allowed him to see where Tails was at all times?
That's game-specific and unlikely to end up in any official or semi-official release, unless it can somehow be made customizable enough. But if anyone wants to see the camera hack I used, I put the version of Gens I used for most of my S3&K movie here. It's based on a between-releases build and has some problems, but it should work for seeing what the characters were doing offscreen. To focus on Tails instead of Sonic you have to turn on your Num Lock. Num Lock has to be off to focus on Sonic (doesn't matter for Knuckles though), and Scroll Lock must be off at all times.
Would it possible to modify that version to allow it to function for Sonic 2 also?
This definitely makes your Sonic 3 & K recording VERY interesting, knowing where Tails is all the time.
That's game-specific and unlikely to end up in any official or semi-official release, unless it can somehow be made customizable enough.
How hard would it be to adjust it for each game, Surely it's just a specific RAM value to identify what co-ords the players are at, Why not have the ability to tell Gens that player 1 co-ords are at XXX address and player 2 co-ords are at YYY (player 3/4 if applicable) would it not be possible to do this via some kind of configuration file that loads specific co-ords upon the bootup of a particular rom? i.e save-file like this;
Sonic the Hedgehog 2 [W] [!].bin {WWWW;XXXX;YYYY;ZZZZ}
Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles.bin {1111;2222;3333;4444}
That way it is simply a question of doing some ram value watching to see what player co-ords are?
Would it possible to modify that version to allow it to function for Sonic 2 also?
Yes, and the same for Sonic Advance and Sonic Advance 3. But it's downright boring to watch in Sonic Advance 1 or 3, and I imagine it's not very interesting in Sonic 2.
DDRKhat wrote:
How hard would it be to adjust it for each game, Surely it's just a specific RAM value to identify what co-ords the players are at ...
It needs a lot more game-specific information than that. This S3&K camera hack references 20 different RAM addresses, not just the player X and Y positions, and it renders the offscreen frames by emulating 10 frames ahead per frame with incremental changes tailored to the game's update code capabilities, while tricking the game into not moving any objects during those 10 frames. And it's still not quite enough (it gets glitchy when the game is lagging, and mostly fails in certain parts of Sandopolis 2 and Lava Reef 1). It wouldn't apply to very many games, anyway. Generalizing it would most likely mean some variety of mod/plugin scripting support.
DDRKhat wrote:
This definitely makes your Sonic 3 & K recording VERY interesting, knowing where Tails is all the time.
Tails teleports around a lot when Sonic isn't looking, doesn't he? Getting Tails to show up at the right times is one of those things that looks like I didn't even do anything to make happen, but was actually pretty difficult. Whenever I left Tails behind and did nothing with him, it was usually either to avoid lag or to manipulate his teleport positions and timing.
Also, you should find it interesting for things besides Tails. Even in SprintGod's movie with Sonic alone, he does a lot of stuff offscreen that you can now see completely, and that applies moreso to the newer, glitchier S3&K runs.
Of course, I've already seen the new, glitchy, S3K runs with Player1 camhack. But I just want to say that watching your run with Tails Cam is rather hilarious.
It's like "while that's going on, how about you watch this plucky little fox spin his tails with all his might."
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Well for Sonic 2 It could come in handy, there are a few other games that I cannot think off the top of my head that would it would be handy for. Where player 2 can still manipulate and do everything offscreen however finds it difficult (obviously because only player1 is ON the screen)
So just out of curiousity how long might it take for the multi-track to come out? and how easy is it to use?
Another question is, you record player one, then player two. When you switch, does it force player 1 input to player 2 or does it simply not overwrite the player 1 input?
I thought it would be obvious since I said I used it for most of my S3&K movie, but that camera hack Gens also has multi-track recording in it, which you could try out in S3&K. Num Lock is the "don't record Sonic" button and Caps Lock is the "don't record Tails" button.
If you turn both on at the same time, the movie will play back while recording itself, recovering whatever input is after the "end" of the movie. Ctrl-T toggles read-only so you can switch between true playback and recording mode. The "Automatic Close Movie" checkbox in the options should absolutely be turned off, even for regular recording in Gens 9z (if off is not the default, it should be).
I think a more general/customizable multi-track recording feature should have these additions:
- Ability to set what keys to use, obviously. It should neither be limited to Lock type keys nor require holding the key down to "stay in a track", and it should not be limited to only 2 tracks.
- Ability to assign more specific input to a track than simply "player 1" or "player 2", such as "player 1's jump buttons" or "player 1's directional buttons". That way it would be useful in 1-player games too.
- Some way of seeing which tracks are currently recording.
- Some bounds checking so you don't get garbage input on the other track when recording only one track past the end of the file. This could be trickier than it sounds because the standard error/eof checks will sometimes say the file has ended earlier than the amount of valid input it really contains, which is why I left it unchecked, to avoid prematurely-ending tracks. Something for testing...
Ok I'm afraid im confused here.. heh.
So, how does this work..?
I start a new recording with capslock on and numlock off. this would mean I only do player 1 input right?
how do I then switch to player 2 input?
Ok I'm afraid im confused here.. heh.
So, how does this work..?
I start a new recording with capslock on and numlock off. this would mean I only do player 1 input right?
how do I then switch to player 2 input?
Turn capslock off and turn numlock on.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Ok I'm afraid im confused here.. heh.
So, how does this work..?
I start a new recording with capslock on and numlock off. this would mean I only do player 1 input right?
how do I then switch to player 2 input?
Turn capslock off and turn numlock on.
Do I stop recording..? how do I begin player 2 input alongside Player 1? I'm sorry but im utterly confused here.
[19:14:23] <JXQ> I am watching the ice cap zone now.......
[19:15:03] <JXQ> still no clue what the fuck happens
[19:31:14] <JXQ> haha I never realized til now that in Death Egg 2, nitsuja goes through a part in antigravity that is normally normal gravity
[19:34:03] <Fabian_> just watched ice cap
[19:34:09] <Fabian_> everything is now much clearer
[19:34:15] <Fabian_> (this is a lie)
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Do I stop recording..? how do I begin player 2 input alongside Player 1? I'm sorry but im utterly confused here.
After recording something, switch to player 2 then load a savestate before (or during) what you recorded with player 1, and continue recording.
EDIT: What's so confusing about ice cap?
I follow what happens up until you levelwrap. Then you run up a hill..something happens...poof, boss.
No, no. He runs up the hill before he levelwraps left->right. What's going on at that point is that Ice Cap 1 wraps vertically, and he's moving downward so fast that the camera simply can't keep up.
When he's done running up the hill he levelwraps, which is the first "something" that happens.
Then, because the Act 1 boss on Ice Cap is actually fought within the bounds of Act 2, when the camera scrolls past a certain point in Act 1, Act 2 loads. Then it's a matter of maneuvering Sonic so that it the camera scrolling doesn't trigger the Act 1 boss fight, and then maneuvering Sonic so that the camera scrolling does trigger the Act 2 boss fight. (Rescuing him from being beyond the right "edge" of the level.)
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
I think upthorn's definition of "up a hill" is not what JXQ meant, and his description of act 2 isn't so accurate. Here is what happened:
- ran left (and downward at such unmatchedly ludicrous speeds that vertical level wrap started happening more than once per second)
- horizontal level wrap from the start of act 1 to past the end of act 1, at the instant of hitting the left side of the level
- camera reversed directions, now scrolling right instead of left to catch up
- ran up a hill slowly, because I was where the act 1 boss would be when act 2 loads and needed to be further left by then
- ran out of hill to run up and went into a wall, zipped up and down a bit solely to make people more dizzy
- jumped down into the corridor before the act 1 boss at the right edge of act 1
- jumped down through an unloaded part of the level on the right
- the camera finally got close enough for act 2 to start loading, placing me in act 2
- the ground collision loaded, stopping me from falling
- the camera caught up completely and stopped scrolling
- short wait for loading
- the wall collision loaded, enabling zipping, and I zipped left and level wrapped from the start of act 2 to past the end of act 2
- ended up in a loop somewhere, waiting for the now-scrolling-right-again camera to catch up
- jumped to the correct height to give Tails control, having already manipulated him to be there at the right time to still have control when the boss fight starts
- zipped up and down to make people dizzy again right before the screen caught up to the act 2 boss (far to the left), while starting Tails flying
- boss screen lock teleported me to where the boss was, and Tails fell from directly above to put Sonic on the ground and (because Sonic can't spindash and has no shield) to make it possible to hit the boss early
Do I stop recording..? how do I begin player 2 input alongside Player 1? I'm sorry but im utterly confused here.
After recording something, switch to player 2 then load a savestate before (or during) what you recorded with player 1, and continue recording.
EDIT: What's so confusing about ice cap?
It's still not working for me..
Boot up Sonic 3 & Knuckles..
Record new movie..
Select new game, once plane finishes flying, Savestate. Record with numlock ON capslock OFF. after a while stop movie. Load movie capslock ON numlock OFF. reusme from savestate. do moves with tails.
It's still not working for me..
Boot up Sonic 3 & Knuckles..
Record new movie..
Select new game, once plane finishes flying, Savestate. Record with numlock ON capslock OFF. after a while stop movie. Load movie capslock ON numlock OFF. reusme from savestate. do moves with tails.
Here's the procedure, in your terms:
Boot up Sonic 3 & Knuckles..
Record new movie..
Select new game, once plane finishes flying, Savestate. Record with numlock OFF capslock OFF, controlling sonic. then turn numlock ON, then load the savestate. do moves with tails.
If Sonic doesn't start moving around on his own in the same way you moved him before, either you screwed up one of those steps or you opened the wrong emulator.
It's still not working for me..
Boot up Sonic 3 & Knuckles..
Record new movie..
Select new game, once plane finishes flying, Savestate. Record with numlock ON capslock OFF. after a while stop movie. Load movie capslock ON numlock OFF. reusme from savestate. do moves with tails.
Here's the procedure, in your terms:
Boot up Sonic 3 & Knuckles..
Record new movie..
Select new game, once plane finishes flying, Savestate. Record with numlock OFF capslock OFF, controlling sonic. then turn numlock ON, then load the savestate. do moves with tails.
If Sonic doesn't start moving around on his own in the same way you moved him before, either you screwed up one of those steps or you opened the wrong emulator.
Ahha I see.. turns out I'd been using the wrong emulator! DOH!
Thanks for the clarification
