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Super Smash Bros Kirby High Score Time Attack TAS- Comicalflop

  • EMULATOR -- Mupen 64 rerecording 0.5
  • ROM – SMASH BROTHERS
  • COUNTRY -- USA
  • CRC -- 5B8B6B91
PLUGINS --
  • video: glN64 v0.4.1
  • sound: Jabo's DirectSound 1.6
  • input: TAS Input Plugin 0.6
  • RSP : RSP emulation Plugin
CONTROLLERS --
1: Present
2: Disconnected
3: Disconnected
4: Disconnected

Goals

  • Aims for Highest Score in Fastest Time
  • Takes no Damage, Hardest Setting
  • Manipulates Luck
  • Abuses programming errors in the game
  • Genre: Fighter
For my second TAS I decided to do a High Score run of Super Smash Bros. for the N64. This is an extremely popular fighting game, which spawned two sequels in the two succeeding Nintendo consoles. Many people all over the world spent and still spend endless hours playing the 8 original characters and 4 unlockable characters, and the game's single player mode with an adventure to complete, bonus stages to get records on, plus the game's best feature of outstanding multiplayer gameplay of “cartoon mischief” made it a mainstream N64 title.
This run is a high score time attack using Kirby on very hard mode, with one life, achieving a final score of 2,554,881 in 4 minutes 13 seconds in-game time, 8m 8.083s (29285 frames). This beats the previous record of a tool assisted high score time attack of 2,419,243, which will be mentioned later. The reason that this is called a high score time attack score and not a high score run is due to the goals that were set at the beginning, and was discussed in the SSB Fastest Completion + High Score forum. To summarize, it was debated because in every stage that is played it is possible, with all the myriad bonus awards that can be gotten from achieving a certain goal during the stages, to get higher scores than what I had achieved. However, all of them were at the cost of time. There are three categories for a speedrun for this game: Fastest time, pure high score, and high score time attack. Each is competitive with its own goals; fastest time to get a faster time, pure high score to, no matter in how much time lost/gained to get a higher final score, and high score time attack, to get a higher score in a shorter time.
Kirby was chosen for his ability to get many bonus points, with a few certain attacks that are used frequently throughout the game. The bonus that arguably provides the biggest amount of points for least effort is Pacifist, which grants 60,000 if your opponent dies without you damaging him/her. Now waiting around for an opponent to die on his own on very hard with one life is not a feasible strategy- enter Kirby’s B move, copy. Kirby is well known throughout his games of copying his opponents’ abilities, and Super Smash Bros. is not different. Kirby will suck in an opponent, and copy their B move after he spits them out.
But the programmers that designed the game made it so that if Kirby sucks in an opponent and does nothing, he’ll wait and wobble a little as the opponent struggles to break free. Eventually he/she will break free, and Kirby gets launched backwards as the opponent escapes. The catch? If an opponent breaks free like that, there’s no damage dealt. Therefore, Kirby is capable of forcing a pacifist kill on an opponent, by sucking an opponent, falling down near the bottom of the stage, and spitting out at the very last moment. No CPU under the right circumstances can escape from that.
You’ll see this technique used in 4 of the stages, in the others different strategies are used for very specific reasons. There is one additional Pacifist kill, and in the rest Kirby attacks normally. Every stage was very carefully planned to get the highest score in the shortest amount of time, and I’ll go into length for each stage to describe what I did to get the highest score quickly.

Playing strategies

There are a few playing strategies that will be described here in detail.

Enemy Movement

This is, by far, the biggest thing about this game that could possibly make Kirby’s movements look like mistakes, but they are not. EVERY frame of input that Kirby makes affects the enemy’s movement. There is an incredible amount of Luck Manipulation in this game, which is used to simulate 100% randomness when playing the game in real time against an opponent or with friends. Every single move that Kirby makes was utilized to get the desired outcome from enemies; so if I take a few extra hops, run in different directions, move around in a sloppy manner, it was all carefully executed to get the enemy to behave in a certain way. There are certain strategies that didn’t work because an enemy would not behave a certain way, and there were others where you could consistently get an enemy to do something. But every Kirby movement, whether smooth or not, was done for a purpose.

Certain attacks

This run only uses a few of Kirby’s attacks.
B move, swallow is used to force a Pacifist bonus on single targets.
Up+B ‘cutter’ was used in three different ways: in Teams to use the sword to hit a weak opponent into the sky, against single targets to ‘spike’ them downwards, and using the wave part of the cutter as a projectile.
Down+B ‘stone’ was used to gain some vertical down speed in one of the bonuses, and in the last Team fight a few enemies were not killable with a normal cutter, so stone was used to greater affect.
Down+A Aerial ‘drill’ was used to rack up damage% on opponents, and is Kirby’s best form of doing so. Used in Mario Bros., Samus, and Master Hand.
Smash+A ‘smash attack’ this was used in only one stage to force an opponent with low% damage to be pushed towards the edge.
Back+A Aerial ‘backwards kick’ used only once to knock an opponent backwards over a lava pit.
No other attacks were used in the run.

Stages

The single player mode is set up with an ‘adventure’ consisting of 14 stages, 10 where you fight enemies, of which three of those are ‘teams’; three bonus stages; and a final boss fight.

Super Smash Bros Kirby High Score

StageIn-game timer endScore to beatFinal score
Link4:52110550110600
Yoshi Team4:26247770266000
Fox4:52368420386700
Break the Target1:46(14"37)428220447900
Mario Bros.4:50521371566111
Pikachu4:58652171697011
Giant DK4:55837921882761
Board the Platforms1:30(30"31)895121940761
Kirby Team4:3710205811079121
Samus4:4411189321201151
Metal Mario4:5812697311352051
Race to the Finish0:3713022311385551
Polygon Team4:0314124621529911
Master Hand4:3924192432554881
The Link stage is set on top of hyrule castle, and Link is the easiest to fight since he is the very first stage. Kirby disregards making the opening move and runs right past him, and takes a few small hops to ensure that Link runs towards Kirby at maximum speed. Then Kirby turns around and swallows Link- who struggles to escape, not realizing that doing so pushes Kirby off of the edge, and spits Link out one frame above the bottom.
Alternate strategy: It was considered to either grab onto the ledge and make Link kill himself, or to try the swallow maneuver on the left side. The reasons they didn’t work: Edge grabbing is more difficult to do then swallowing, and Link had a habit of not using his Up+B move to swirl over Kirby’s head. Any attempt to do a ledge grab strategy resulted in a failure and a slower time. The left edge is actually a slope, and the wobbling that makes swallow maneuvers possible does not work since the opponent wobbles Kirby away from the edge on slopes.
Bonuses:
No Item, Speedster, Pacifist, No Miss x1, No Damage, Full Power

Yoshi Team

The Yoshi Team is set in one of the stages from the N64 game Yoshi’s Story. You must face off against 18 Yoshis of varying color. The Yoshis are very easy to kill, since any throw or special move is usually a guaranteed one hit kill. For this stage Kirby exclusively uses cutter to send the Yoshis into the background, IN ORDER OF APPEARANCE. The bonuses Hawk, Trickster, and Yoshi’s Rainbow were sought in this match.
Alternate strategies: late in the run the shooter bonus was discovered, but it was realized that the Hawk bonus (all attacks are made in the air) is lost from cutter’s projectile. It was debated about using Pacifist here as well, but getting 18 Yoshis to kill themselves on very hard was not feasible.
Bonuses: No Item, Hawk, Trickster, No Miss x2, No Damage, Full Power, Smashless, Single Move, Fighter Stance, Yoshi Rainbow

Fox

Fox was the only successful ledge grab, and it worked out splendidly. Not much to say, other than Fox was kept charging most of the time and died earlier than expected.
Bonuses: No Item, Speedster, Pacifist, No Miss x3, No Damage, Full Power, Fighter Stance

Break the Target

Fastest BtT strategy was used to get the lowest achievable in-game timer, instead of actual time. Actual time was 14”37, which was found in the game files after the game was finished. Saving hundredths of seconds was not sought, because it would not increase the score, only seconds saved would do that.

Mario Bros.

Wow this was a difficult fight. It was determined that Calamity Brothers (kill Luigi before Mario receives any damage) and True Friend (your partner does not get hit) had to both be awarded. It was notoriously difficult to achieve both of these in a short time, but after many retries both bonuses were received. Many times I had to attack fireballs to ensure Pikachu didn’t get hurt.
Alternate strategy: someone suggested trying pacifist here as well- not very feasible.
Bonuses: Cheap Shot, No Item, Speedster, No Miss x4, No Damage, Full Power, Fighter Stance, True Friend, Brothers Calamity

Pikachu

As soon as Pikachu is done being my partner in the last stage, here I kill him humiliatingly fast for not helping at all. The programmers designed Pikachu and Metal Mario to die before you do, which makes the swallow maneuver very fast and easy- if you still have Pikachu in your mouth when you hit the bottom, he’ll die before you. This is used to get a 2 second fight.
Bonuses: No Item, Speedster, Pacifist, No Miss x5, No Damage, Full Power

Giant DK

Another swallow maneuver and a very hard one to do at that. Many times DK would still have time to recover.
Alternate strategy: edge grabbing worked in a previous Fox Fastest time run, but Fox was better because he could manipulate DK better by being faster. It was tried, but Kirby couldn’t get DK to kill himself.
Bonuses: No Item, Speedster, Pacifist, No Miss x6, No Damage, Full Power, DK Perfect

Board the Platforms

The fastest strategy for this bonus. Beats the world record by 0”12, but doesn’t matter since A) it is not visually provable and B) doesn’t matter because the score is only increased by seconds saved. I tried but it is impossible to catch that moving platform right after I land on platform #6, so instead I wave it goodbye.

Kirby Team

Kirby Team was tricky because they didn’t automatically die from any attack (although throwing came close.) Instead, the projectile part of cutter was utilized to get Speedster and Shooter bonus, which makes up for the lost Trickster or Hawk. It was very hard manipulating those Kirby’s to die, but in general if they were off screen they didn’t feel like floating, which is why I move around a lot. And of course, I kill them in order.
Alternate strategy: using Hawk + Trickster. Didn’t work because the Kirby’s didn’t go into the background.
Bonuses: No Item, Shooter, Speedster, No Miss x7, No Damage, Full Power, Smashless, Single Move, Fighter Stance, Kirby Ranks

Samus

I apologize to Samus fans, but she got completely owned this round. The Lava really ruins things for a speedrun, however I utilize it to snag two bonuses. I did 4 drill attacks (3 did not rack up enough damage, so this is optimal) and kicked her beyond the platform, then used a cutter to spike her into the lava, which was just enough %damage to make her go into the background.
Alternate strategies: not much, only tried to maker her die sooner, which wasn’t as fast or netted as many points.
Bonuses: Star Finish, No Item, Hawk, Speedster, No Miss x8, No Damage, Full Power, Smashless, Fighter Stance, Acid Clear

Metal Mario

Metal Mario is a real pain, because it takes 300+% damage to kill him, and for speed running he doesn’t move around a lot. Annnnnndddd…. He dies in two seconds!!! I was able to manipulate him to jump extremely early, and a swallow, plus the same programming error as Pikachu makes him die so quickly.
Bonuses: No Item, Speedster, Pacifist, No Miss x9, No Damage, Full Power

Race to the Finish

Kirby doesn’t have the fastest running speed, so I make sure that he doesn’t get slowed down by anything. 0:37.

Polygon Team

Wow this was difficult. 30 enemies to kill!!! I had to use cutter and stone to kill them all. Neither the Yoshi or Kirby strategy worked here, so I just tried to kill them as fast as possible while getting Hawk.
Alternate strategies: Both the Yoshi Team strategy and Kirby Team strategy were considered, but neither worked.
Bonuses: No Item, Hawk, No Miss x10, No Damage, Full Power, Smashless, Special Move, Fighter Stance

Master Hand

Ooooh, the big, bad, nasty glove of death!!! I make short work of him- at this point I hope you like the drill attack, because I use it solely to beat him in 21 seconds. There’s a lot of luck manipulation here as well, since I manipulated which attacks he’ll use next so that I can attack him in the least amount of time. In particular his “shooting gun” phase was to be avoided, as I had no opportunity to attack.
Bonuses: Hawk, Speedster, No Miss x11, No Damage, Full Power, Smashless, Very Hard Clear, No MIss Clear, No Damage Clear, Speed Demon

Thanks

I’d like to dedicate this section to psychoticworm for creating the very first Tool Assisted high score speed run of Super Smash Bros. using Kirby. He used savestates but no slowdown in order to get a score of 2,419,243. It was his video that was inspiration for me to use all the tools available to beat his time/score. Practically most of the strategies came from his video, and this run would not be possible without it. He was also a great help in the forum during the making of this run.
I’d also like to thank antd for his incredible work on doing the individual bonus stages TASes. He was the first person to my knowledge to experiment with Tools to see what is possible by TASing SSB by making individual bonus runs and creating many entertaining combos in practice mode. He was a great source of info on how to TAS this game and I eagerly await his Fastest Fox completion run.
I’d also like to mention all the posters in the SSB thread (because the run started November 28th and ended December 9th, so didn’t last very long):
Bag of Magic Food, for suggesting a high score run in the first place
Laughing_gas, for constant input and showing me that my avatar directly reflects my screen name
bkDJ for providing some initial .mkv’s of WIP; eventually I was able to make WMV and youtube link’s on my own, but his effort to make the .mkv’s is appluaded
And to all those who contributed with feedback/suggestions: Zurreco, Chef Stef, Thegreginator, Jsmith, Shadow Burn, Kitsune, Kirbymuncher, Macman, L4yer, NrgSpoon, DeHackEd

Truncated: This will be controversial no matter which decision is made, but here are the reasons for my verdict:
  • The movie has unclear goals - it does not go for max score, fastest time, or entertainment.
  • Very repetitive strategy.
  • Record number of No and Meh votes (but also a fair number of yes votes).
  • Published fighting games so far have gone for entertainment. This game does not offer a lot of variety, and as such, it is perhaps unsuited for a TAS.
Therefore, rejecting this submission.


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TASVideoAgent
They/Them
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #1379: Comicalflop's N64 Super Smash Bros. in 08:08.08
Skilled player (1829)
Joined: 4/20/2005
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Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Looked really good. Short, entertaining, and pretty funny to watch. I liked the Samus-battle, I bet that while in mid-air she was thinking something like "I gotta make it back to the ground! Yes, I made it!" and then gets smacked down immediately as he lands. :) Anyway, good job on this game, voting yes.
Skilled player (1100)
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Nice. Looking forward to watching this. First I'm going to finish off this MM WIP then I'm going to watch/vote/comment.
Joined: 5/13/2006
Posts: 283
Mario Bros. 4:50 521371 56111
Did you forget a digit? :P Yes vote; the movie was very entertaining and appears to be very optimized. :)
<Zurreco> if so called professional players cant adapt to every playing field, theyre obviously not that great
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Joined: 10/1/2006
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Location: boot_camp
Very entertaining. Yes vote.
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Skilled player (1100)
Joined: 8/26/2006
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Location: United Kingdom
Ok, Majora's Mask is being an asshole again. I'm just going to watch this now. EDIT -- I've watched it. I enjoyed it. Yes, one could argue that it is repetitive, but I've seen many published runs that you could say these same things about. It was well optimised, but perhaps the polygon stage could have been a bit better? (having never played this I don't really know, it just seemed that you killed the first polygon before he was even on screen but this trend was not continued). I think this merits publication. As you know I'm big on seeing new N64 TASes and this is definitely good enough (also N64 runs are coming up on the workbench frequently now, which is great). I can also see that there are loads of ways to play this game so I hope to see many obsoletions of this run in the months to come. Voting Yes.
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Umm… yeah, I see some extreme variety in this run: approximately two different attacks throughout all the battles except the last one, where you use the third one exclusively. The movie is well optimized, but I don't see anything interesting or surprising in it; it isn't even remotely as interesting as simply playing this game or watching some SSBM flicks by SuperDoodleMan. So I vote meh.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Former player
Joined: 11/6/2004
Posts: 833
Slightly repetative, but I guess there's not much you can do about that. I liked it.
Joined: 2/16/2005
Posts: 462
I like the game and found this run entertaining. Yes.
This signature is much better than its previous version.
Joined: 1/22/2006
Posts: 31
Pure speed, pure score, and hybrid...the three categories. This run chose the third. Was the run done optimally? Yes. Was the run done with lots of repetition? Yes. Was it fun in the end? Hell yes. I only have one complaint really. You should have fought Captain Falcon at the end. But that complaint doesn't detract my vote. It should be obvious what that vote is.
Editor, Experienced player (735)
Joined: 6/13/2006
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kwinse wrote:
Mario Bros. 4:50 521371 56111
Did you forget a digit? :P Yes vote; the movie was very entertaining and appears to be very optimized. :)
Fixed the digit. Oopsie.
moozooh wrote:
Umm… yeah, I see some extreme variety in this run: approximately two different attacks throughout all the battles except the last one, where you use the third one exclusively. The movie is well optimized, but I don't see anything interesting or surprising in it; it isn't even remotely as interesting as simply playing this game or watching some SSBM flicks by SuperDoodleMan. So I vote meh.
I agree. A decked out TAS of 1 player vs. 3 lvl 9 CPU's team would be far more entertaining; I believe antd did something like this as a demo. But as a run, the lack of variety is needed because swallow, cutter, and down+a acheieve the goals of fast time and high score the best. I tried to make it more varied than the first SSB submission, which exclusively used Fox's reflector for the same purpose. I do think it's more varied- I also use smash attack, back kick A, and in general tried to kill opponents in different ways- but you're right, it's not 100% varied. It's as close as I could get it to varied while it still being optimized.
Wolfman2000 wrote:
Pure speed, pure score, and hybrid...the three categories. This run chose the third. Was the run done optimally? Yes. Was the run done with lots of repetition? Yes. Was it fun in the end? Hell yes. I only have one complaint really. You should have fought Captain Falcon at the end. But that complaint doesn't detract my vote. It should be obvious what that vote is.
You fight Ness at the end :P but it was agreed upon in the forums that it detracts from a solid ending, plus the Ness fight would be boring if done as fast as possible, the only way to make it entertaining was my suggestion to give Ness the highest % damage while keeping him alive, but it's a very unnesscesary "encore" as laughing_gas put it.
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Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
Like moozooh said, this traded off too much speed for such a small improvement in variety. I found this run to be pretty boring and predictable, save the Metal Mario fight. Personally, I liked nico's Fox run much more, since it was fast enough that the repetition wasn't a huge detractor. Meh vote.
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comicalflop wrote:
But as a run, the lack of variety is needed because swallow, cutter, and down+a acheieve the goals of fast time and high score the best. I tried to make it more varied than the first SSB submission, which exclusively used Fox's reflector for the same purpose. I do think it's more varied- I also use smash attack, back kick A, and in general tried to kill opponents in different ways- but you're right, it's not 100% varied. It's as close as I could get it to varied while it still being optimized.
Maybe that just shows how unsuited the game is for TASing? You have glitched fatalities and Shang Tsung morphing into other fighters in MK series, you have awesome long combos and turbo mode in Killer Instinct. What does this game offer? Kirby OHKO'ing his enemies. It would have looked better as an unassisted run, though.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
JXQ
Experienced player (762)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
This game does not make a good TAS. It's repetitive, and the "suck someone in and fall with them" is boring. I see no reason to vote yes on a run that is repetitive like this, even if it "has to be", or if there are other published runs that are repetitive. (stupid reasons btw)
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Skilled player (1100)
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I'd hate to think that this game is unsuited to TASing. It has such a large fanbase and so it has the potential to have many movies made of it. I've seen repetitiveness in so many runs; last night, for example, I watched Fist of the North Star by Ziplock only to really see 00:07:47 of pogoing with an occassional attack and I remember Tetrisphere was 7 minutes of confusion on my part. That was not in the good way either, it was repetitve spinning and whatever else and having not played the game I couldn't get into it. What sets this apart from regular repetitiveness is that many have played this game and can appreciate what is going on. And I'm not arguing that the fact that there is repetitveness in other runs is a reason to publish this, I'm saying that the repetitiveness of this run should not stand in its way. I'm sure that many will enjoy this run.
Experienced player (614)
Joined: 4/24/2005
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This run is of good quality for such a repetetive game, I really enjoyed seeing it done just about the best way possible when it comes down to highest possible score (at least for now, who knows what else can be accomplished in the future?). I watched a selective amount of your WIPs and who knew you'd be done so nice and quickly. This run could have been as fast as possible (even though it pretty much is) but the goal for highest score is much more intriguing, in my opinion, so I vote yes and I say good job on a run done pretty well. About this game, it's a fighting game and as I've stated before most fighting games should be given leniency; instead of being as fast as possible I think variety and showing off what the game has to offer is of more concern than as fast as possible otherwise you have the same move that gets the job done best over and over again. But in your run, your main goal is highest score so I definately understand why it's so repetetive (time bonus and classified bonus points after each round). Either way you still get my yes vote.
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Mukki wrote:
I remember Tetrisphere was 7 minutes of confusion on my part. That was not in the good way either, it was repetitve spinning and whatever else and having not played the game I couldn't get into it.
So let me get this straight: you didn't understand the Tetrisphere run, but you thought it was repetetive, so you didn't like it. You understand this SSB rim, and you think claims that it was repetetive are true (to some extent), yet it was somehow OK? If you're going to say something like "the repetition of other publications does not make this run's publication acceptable," why would you even bring them up? The fact is that this run, even when taking a step back to get high score, is still very repetetive. In fact, going for high score added something like 3 minutes to the run length. It doesn't matter how popular the game is: it matters how entertaining the run is. Is an 8 minute movie of a slower character doing 4 attacks and manipulating stuff more entertaining than a 5 minute run of the fastest character using two moves?
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First off, I enjoyed the youtube videos you posted of the WIP in the other thread. I have a question before I decidewhat I want to vote. How would you go about improving a movie like this? It's obvious that a higher score in a faster time would be an improvement, but what about a higher score in a slower time? Or is a lower score in a faster time okay? What is it measured against? The goals of this run seem to be 'I played SSB faailry quickly and also got a pretty good score'. Maybe I just don't understand.
Skilled player (1100)
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I haven't played either of the games. I haven't played tetrisphere and its repetitveness bored me and I didn't understand it. I haven't played SSB but I did understand it and its repetitiveness didn't bother me.
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Inzult wrote:
How would you go about improving a movie like this? It's obvious that a higher score in a faster time would be an improvement, but what about a higher score in a slower time? Or is a lower score in a faster time okay? What is it measured against? The goals of this run seem to be 'I played SSB faailry quickly and also got a pretty good score'. Maybe I just don't understand.
No, that's the gist of it. It is a high score in a fast time, possibly the best ratio of score to time. It is possible to beat this game much faster if you don't go for high score. It is also possible to beat the score in this run, if you take more time to do so. This run isn't comparable to a pure score or pure speed run, though. I don't know how a future submission would obsolete this, unless it is faster and has a higher score. A pure speed or score run would be a different category, I guess.
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Mukki wrote:
I'd hate to think that this game is unsuited to TASing. It has such a large fanbase and so it has the potential to have many movies made of it.
o_0 Since when does a large fanbase mean higher potential for making movies, etc.? Example: Sonic 1 all-emeralds run was rejected because it didn't offer anything new other than boring bonus stages, and it was rejected, despite being optimized. Does the game have a large fan base? Obviously. Was that enough for justifying a redundant movie? No. The opposite is untrue as well: a small fanbase doesn't mean less entertaining or variable movies (see Umihara Kawase and Gimmick! for examples).
VANDAL wrote:
About this game, it's a fighting game and as I've stated before most fighting games should be given leniency […] But in your run, your main goal is highest score so I definately understand why it's so repetetive (time bonus and classified bonus points after each round).
Yes, you may be right about leniency, but "let's pick this category for a run even if it is boring and repetitive and have someoone make an optimized TAS for it" doesn't justify the means because the end result is still boring and repetitive. In that case, the objective of the run should have been to show the variety, not the opposite.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 10/24/2005
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Location: San Jose
Voting yes, good movie, a bit repetitive.
<agill> banana banana banana terracotta pie! <Shinryuu> ho-la terracotta barba-ra anal-o~
JXQ
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Mukki wrote:
[the game] has such a large fanbase
Another bad reason to publish a movie.
And I'm not arguing that the fact that there is repetitveness in other runs is a reason to publish this, I'm saying that the repetitiveness of this run should not stand in its way.
I'm seeing no difference in these statements, especially after you've compared other published runs on the site that you find repetitive. It sounds like you're saying "it's ok to vote yes on a repetitive run if you liked it, but not ok to vote no if you didn't like it'.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
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Zurreco wrote:
...the best ratio of score to time...
Hey, that works. It allows for an objective element to compare other runs to. Thanks for putting it so simply for me :P So okay, I'm voting yes, because I did enjoy the run. I still think the goals are a bit fuzzy, but whatever. I was entertained.
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JXQ wrote:
This game does not make a good TAS. It's repetitive, and the "suck someone in and fall with them" is boring. I see no reason to vote yes on a run that is repetitive like this, even if it "has to be", or if there are other published runs that are repetitive. (stupid reasons btw)
so 4 out of 14 stages were boring because of suck and swallow, and that alone makes it unworthy? Despite that two of those stages are faster than the Fox run? "has to be" is a bad term, optimal is better. This shouldn't be compared to other repetitive runs, but it should be noted that, IMO there are more repetitive runs out there. when you look beyond the 4 attacks that are used the most, Kirby is running around, manipulating enemies to exact behaviors/locations, and showing off with a fighter's stance at the end.
Mukki wrote:
And I'm not arguing that the fact that there is repetitveness in other runs is a reason to publish this, I'm saying that the repetitiveness of this run should not stand in its way. I'm sure that many will enjoy this run.
My thoughts exactly.
Inzult wrote:
First off, I enjoyed the youtube videos you posted of the WIP in the other thread. I have a question before I decidewhat I want to vote. How would you go about improving a movie like this? It's obvious that a higher score in a faster time would be an improvement, but what about a higher score in a slower time? Or is a lower score in a faster time okay? What is it measured against? The goals of this run seem to be 'I played SSB faailry quickly and also got a pretty good score'. Maybe I just don't understand.
I'm not exactly sure how I would improve this. (it'd have to be published first.) As per the goals it'd be a total higher score in a shorter time. In terms of adidng variety or doing this differently, I don't think that a higher score in a shorter time can be met, as this was pretty optimal. At best I could probably maybe save a second or two of in-game time for a few levels, but I'd be suprised if that AND score could be improved. And, while the goals seem fuzzy due to its hybrid nature, at the moment it's the highest score ever seen for the game. AND it was done in only 8 minutes, which personally I think makes it better.
Zurreco wrote:
No, that's the gist of it. It is a high score in a fast time, possibly the best ratio of score to time. It is possible to beat this game much faster if you don't go for high score. It is also possible to beat the score in this run, if you take more time to do so. This run isn't comparable to a pure score or pure speed run, though. I don't know how a future submission would obsolete this, unless it is faster and has a higher score. A pure speed or score run would be a different category, I guess.
Correct, as stated in the forum and submission.
JXQ wrote:
Mukki wrote:
[the game] has such a large fanbase
Another bad reason to publish a movie.
And I'm not arguing that the fact that there is repetitveness in other runs is a reason to publish this, I'm saying that the repetitiveness of this run should not stand in its way.
I'm seeing no difference in these statements, especially after you've compared other published runs on the site that you find repetitive. It sounds like you're saying "it's ok to vote yes on a repetitive run if you liked it, but not ok to vote no if you didn't like it'.
Also correct. Vote yes if you liked it, vote no if you don't. I'm not going to be personally insulted if this ends up not being published, since it wasn't as time consuming as my first run. However, I'd like it to be since it'd make a good addition to the N64 movies.
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