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Posted: 12/5/2006 4:20 PM
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antd
Joined: 3/18/2006
Posts: 971
Location: Great Britain
comicalflop wrote:
How do you get DK to spin over you? I can't quite get that to work. I know to edge grab, but he doesn't want to seem to spin when I'm in postion on the edge. He'll spin occasionally, but never to the right and over me.
It's simple to do with Fox.
heck, it was faster than antd's by 2 seconds.
I didn't use Kirby.
Posted: 12/5/2006 4:39 PM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (735)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
I'm probably going to do DK with a swallow, because I cannot get DK to spin over me at all. the placement just doesn't work. SpiDeY my .m64 is on last page for Pikachu, antd's is the page before that I think. yes I know you didn't use Kirby, I believe you got the fastest time possible with Pikachu, but I was suprised myself that Kirby could ace Pikachu in two seconds. and yes, I shouldn't be comparing time wise against your run because of different goals. if that was the case, you've beaten my time for every other stage. do you have a .m64 or WMV or youtube of your DK fight? Agh I am having serious problems against G. DK... I cannot get a time above 4:53 at all, I was able to do a successful spit at the bottom, but he wastest two seconds by being able to jump and float, whereas in PW's video DK doesn't recover. Edit: Nvm, just got a 4:55. *Phew* thank god,, he was really starting to get annoying.
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Posted: 12/5/2006 6:15 PM
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Comicalflop
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Speedy TAS of 2009
vs. G. DK .m64 4:55 vs. G. DK WMV vs. Pikachu Youtube link vs. DK Youtube link Edit: just started BtP and I'm doing very well... I should be able to break a world record here, for some reason TASing BtP is so much easier, sliding off of the platforms is easy and I've saved a lot of time from TAS optimization already, just did the 4th platform. Currently 0.56 seconds faster than the 30"89 vid that I have.
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Posted: 12/5/2006 10:21 PM
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laughing_gas
Former player
Joined: 10/1/2006
Posts: 1102
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I don't believe it's possible to pacifist the kirby team and get kirby ranks at the same time. They're just too good at making it back, just like the mario bros. You might want to use the yoshi strategy against the kirby team.
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Posted: 12/5/2006 10:39 PM
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Bob_A
Joined: 2/12/2006
Posts: 432
comicalflop: I like the way the pikachu match ends synchronized with the music. laughing_gas: Isn't it possible to swallow them and make them escape at the point where they die without getting a chance to return?
Posted: 12/5/2006 11:08 PM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (735)
Joined: 6/13/2006
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Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
Pikachu dies in synch with the music? haha I didn't realize that. The Kirby's are very aggresive... there's no way I can wait for 4 seconds to spit a Kirby out, without getting damaged by the other. I'm going to do it the same way I did Yoshi. Finished BtP, got 30"75, which beats the only world record that I know of which gets 30"89. There might be some small thing that I'm missing to go faster, but here's just to show what I got: BtP test run 30"75, 1:30 in-game timer Edit: I found out why I couldn't squeeze more time: before platform # 7, there are the fast up moving platforms, and I tested and it's impossible to get on the first (I was very close though), so I have to wait for the second platform (I taunt beforehand :P). Therefore, I have to wait the same amount of time and get on the platform at the exact same time as the WR run, so from then on I once again have to gain frames after being directly tied, despite having a much greater lead in the beginning. So that's why my half second lead couldn't be kept. It stills beats that record though, and looks really good with sliding down platforms and such. BtP 1:30 WMV yay 6 more stages to go! Most of them difficult!
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Posted: 12/6/2006 1:06 AM
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antd
Joined: 3/18/2006
Posts: 971
Location: Great Britain
The BtP WR is 30"43
Posted: 12/6/2006 1:09 AM
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laughing_gas
Former player
Joined: 10/1/2006
Posts: 1102
Location: boot_camp
the bonus is still the same since it doesn't cross a second.
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Posted: 12/6/2006 1:28 AM
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thegreginator
Former player
Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 267
Location: CO
Are you gonna redo your BtP comicalflop? I think you should at least be able to tie the realtime record. FYI doing the stone is not the fastest way to move downwards, thats one of the places you lost time. EDIT: antd, is there a video for the 30"43 BtP?
Posted: 12/6/2006 1:37 AM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (735)
Joined: 6/13/2006
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Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
30"43, which vid? laughing gas is correct, in that I cannot gain any more score points, but since I BtP can be improved I think that it should, especially since I do fastest stuff except for using stone. What is the fastest downward travel, using down+a over and over? What will be the biggest time saver is if I can catch that first platform, I don't know if it's when you appear or on a set timer, I'll redo after getting platform #5 and see what happens. I don't know if it'll be tonight or not, but I'll definetly redo. And THEN it'll be 6 more stages to go. and only two- Metal Mario and Race to the Finish- are going to be easy. well, easier than the others. I just need to save 6 frames to match it 30"43, I currently have 30"53.
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Posted: 12/6/2006 2:22 AM
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bkDJ
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
midair up+a should also work and add variety
Posted: 12/6/2006 2:38 AM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (735)
Joined: 6/13/2006
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Speedy TAS of 2009
using stone right after platform #5 is fastest, I lost 5 frames when trying to use down+a. I could NOT get on to the first moving platform, it is impossible. literally 1-2 frames too slow for that move to work, too bad it's not a catchable ledge. I tried a different method for getting past that bumper, and lost frames. I'm close to giving up on improving by those 6 frames, I can't seem to gain any more time...
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Posted: 12/6/2006 2:52 AM
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NrgSpoon
Joined: 6/14/2004
Posts: 646
It is possible to get to the descending part from the final platform? Since you end up waiting a while both there and the platforms going up, depending on the timing and how long it takes to get there, it might be a better option to go for it last.
I like my "thank you"s in monetary form.
Posted: 12/6/2006 3:16 AM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (735)
Joined: 6/13/2006
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Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
Just saved 6 frames exactly on target #8, so I'll try to optimize it a teensy bit more and keep that frame gain for the final 2. BIG EDIT: JUST GOT 30"33. 12 frames faster than my goal. This beats the world record by 0"10. Doesn't save any in-game time units, so no bigger score, but by frame calculations beats the 10"43. BtP final 10"33 .m64
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Posted: 12/6/2006 3:54 AM
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psychoticworm
Joined: 11/30/2006
Posts: 42
Location: WA
awesome! Thats a pretty huge accomplishment. Can't wait to see Kirby Team! Is the previous WR on BtP a real time play thru or TASsed?
Posted: 12/6/2006 4:10 AM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (735)
Joined: 6/13/2006
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Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
real time, antd had only done 5 bonus TASes, Link BtP, Ness BtP, Yoshi BtP, Cpt. Falcon BtP, and Link BtT. The Kirby BtP of 10"43 is real time, since (I think) antd and I are the only ones to do these bonuses TASed, and he didn't do any Kirby ones. TASing the two bonus stages made me realize something- the 100% all BtT and BtP run that everyone wants is going to be much tougher than I thought, especially since it'd be nescessary to beat all 24 world records. antd, you were right- that was majorly tough. Kirby team and Polygon team are going to be the same as Yoshi team I believe, so nothing new will come from those except speedster for Kirby. Although polygon stage I'll try to think of something else, maybe beat it with timer of 3:30, maybe try to rack up as much damage as possible, all variation (except every move done has to connect for variation to count right?) possibly some other bonus that you get from items. Wait: Shooter bonus. 12,000. The wave part of Kirby's cutter counts as projectile. it kills teams faster than the trickster, since they go off the side instead of up and into the background. Egads!!!!! SHIT!!!! now I have to redo from Yoshi stage.... Reasoning: Yoshi stage I got 34 seconds, and if somehow they could be killed off the side instead of up, I could get speedster. Enter shooter bonus, by using the projectile part of Kirby's attack. I can still get Hawk, and double kills, get speedster, save time have higher bonus. Now, from DKC2 102% I restarted the run 7 times, and since I'm so close to being done, and having many great levels in, and having beaten a world record.... do people want me to make another version using projectile against Yoshi Team? will you all stand by me on this one, or should I keep going? (I personally want to keep going, I'm not sure if I can replicate some of what I've accomplished so far.) I really do not want to start over, but the possibility of getting +11,000 additional points in Yoshi stage plus a shorter time is very promising. But I really don't want to restart...
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Posted: 12/6/2006 4:12 AM
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laughing_gas
Former player
Joined: 10/1/2006
Posts: 1102
Location: boot_camp
keep going, and if you want you can make an improvement later.
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Posted: 12/6/2006 4:15 AM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (735)
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Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
Yes, much like I kept going with DKC2, and I'm improving that now... but I don't know, while it hasn't been many days spent working on this, there's a lot that has been done, while on the other hand there's the Yoshi stage which can be greatly improved by this discovery, plus my BtT doesn't beat the world record, and I think I lose 1/2 a second during the title screen of mario Bros. becuase I wasn't turbo A+Start during the whole time, which both could be considered mistakes. OT: One more post until post #1,000!
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Posted: 12/6/2006 4:17 AM
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laughing_gas
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even if the run specifically goes for high score, would the time mistakes get it rejected?
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Posted: 12/6/2006 4:31 AM
(Edited: 12/6/2006 4:42 AM)
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (735)
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Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
well, my point is twofold: 1) The Yoshi stage is improvable in both time and score 2) there are mistakes noticed by myself and others. -BtT does not beat world record. It is recommended that TASes beat world records. -Lost 0.5 seconds (ish, estimating) in the title screen for vs. mario Bros. This is an EASY mistake, something that's actually really obvious if you know what you're looking for. All the rest of the title screens go by faster, so it's noticable. -It is slightly possible that there are some frame mistakes. Link: I'm 97% sure this is optimal. Only other way is if Link can suicide himself, by at least one second slower at maximum, so that I can still taunt. Yoshi Stage: improvable in time and score by my suggestion to aim for shooter and speedster bonus. Fox: very optimal, although it is slightly possible to have Fox charge towards me the entire time. BtT: doesn't beat world record. Mario Bros.: Title screen mistake, however the fighting is IMO very impressive, the only way that a faster time is possible is if I use a cutter to spike Luigi as well. But thta level was so difficult to get both True Friend AND Brothers Calamity. Pikachu: Optimal. 2 seconds is max. Giant DK: if a ledge grab is possible (after much testing I don't think it is with Kirby) then improvable. If not, optimal of 5 seconds. BtP: optimal. In general, the run is optimal IMO beacuase of Link, Fox, Mario Bros, Pikachu, and Giant DK. I am NOT counting the debate to use Pacifist in every single stage, as I have stated before it's going against my highest score in shortest time goal and would greatly decrease the entertainment. The lack of a hex editor for .m64 relle hurts here. This always happens when people notice mistakes halfway through the run, and is a huge dilemma for the author. what happened with DKC2 102% is I was working on V8, and commited to having that be the submitted run. Halfway through I made a V9, and it was much faster and was going to deal with all the TINY mistakes that other people noticed in V8. I went ahead and submitted V8 anyways, under the assumption that I was going to work immediatly on improving it with V9 and I thought V8 was excellent quality on its own. (which it proved to be.) a few people had a problem with this, pointing out that I should auto cancel since I had already started a V9 and that it was faster. V8 was published anyways, and now I'm working in V9. (or was, then this run came along, and V9 was put on hold until this is done.) I don't know if the time mistakes would get it rejected. Nico's was (unjustly) rejected partially because of a 17 frame mistake. my DKC2 102% was not rejected, despite me having discovered many mistakes and having already saved 10 seconds in the first two worlds. So in general, at the moment I have no idea what to do. Edit: made my decision to keep going. Going to try and make everything from now on be absolutely perfect., because honestly the Yoshi is a stretegy that was discovered late which happens to everyone, and the BtT and Mario Bros. thing is a few frames mistake, so meh. Plus, I'm close to the end, and to be honest everything I've done so far looks relle good, it'd be a shame to lose it. Oh, and, uh, 1,000th post. w00t.
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Posted: 12/6/2006 4:36 AM
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laughing_gas
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Joined: 10/1/2006
Posts: 1102
Location: boot_camp
I would like to see it finished. It would set the first precedent for the game upon which others can contribute improvements.
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Posted: 12/6/2006 4:43 AM
(Edited: 12/6/2006 4:45 AM)
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psychoticworm
Joined: 11/30/2006
Posts: 42
Location: WA
I think you should complete the run to see what you have to beat the next time around. Complete this run, do the DKC2 v9 run, then come back and do this one again. Maybe you just need a break, you have worked pretty hard on this run...but perfection is the key, so I don't really know. btw there really is no way of reaching that moving platform in time(on the BtP level)??? not even with a cutter without touching the ground?
Posted: 12/6/2006 4:45 AM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (735)
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Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
Improvements by others? Ha! antd and I claim monopoly on this game!!! lol just kidding. decided to keep going. what you suggested psychoticworm is exactly what I was thinking; finish this, then V9, then improve this. we seem to think a lot alike... I tried everything to get that first platform- using cutter, jumping on first possible frame, using aerial a's to get there faster... Kirby is inside the platform when it shoots up. I swear I am 1-2 frame behind it. that'd be something to try and get for next time around. Kirby Team, I'm going to try the projectile thing and see if that works on them. If I remember though, throwing was the one move that was an absolute kill (the hidden bonus of any character's up+b being better against Yoshis is lost on Kirby team if I remember correctly.)
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Posted: 12/6/2006 4:53 AM
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psychoticworm
Joined: 11/30/2006
Posts: 42
Location: WA
yah if there was a way to cancel his cutter, it might work...but you DO need to use a cutter to get onty hat platform before the moving stone....right?
Posted: 12/6/2006 4:59 AM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (735)
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Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
there's no way of cancelling the cutter as far as I know. a jump on the first possible frame actually got me closer to landing on the platform than doing another cutter would, because the animation for doing another cutter takes more time to set up than a normal jump. with cutter I was very short; by jumping I was BARELY short.
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