Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
At Kirby Team? I'm not sure. I bet if I sucked them in and spat them underneath the level maybe... I seem to recall that, like Yoshi Team, in very easy they tend to die easily by themsleves as well, so maybe what applies in Yoshi Team will apply here, that very hard it's not as doable.
BtT
This is the BtT before I saved 6 frames.
i mean at mario bros. It would be quite a feat, getting brothers calamity, true friend, and pacifist all at once.
EDIT: if it drives you insane trying to get it, then just move on.
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Oh, haha... eh, getting Bros. Calamity and True friend was difficult enough as it is... I had to A) not get hit B) not let Pikachu get hit, that's why I attack Luigi and Mario's fireballs C) Kill Luigi without getting Mario hit.
Throwing in Pacifist would be extremely difficult, I don't even thing on very hard that it is capable for them to kill themselves.
I think this run has more to it than "pacifist every stage!" Pacifist is used strategically to get an easy 60,000 points on individual targets who have a habit of either killing themsleves or setting themselves up for a pacifist kill. Trying to get Pacifist where it's extremely difficult to do so just for the sake of it.
Just on the record, here is the plan for the rest of the run:
Pikachu: Pacifist the sucker
DK: Pacifist the monkey
(for both, try to edge grab in the same time so that I can taunt,)
BtP: beat 30 seconds. anyone know what the world record is for BtP?
Kirby team: Kirby Ranks, and either pacifist (to appease the pacifist neophytes) or the same strat as Yoshi, cutter for Hawk, trickster, speedster.
Samus: you get points for more damage on bonus, so either psychotcworm's strategy or simply rack up as many points as possible and get an acid clear star finish in under 30 seconds.
Metal mario: Pacifist, either edge grab for taunt or swallow for speed. psychoticworm: your mario manipulation in your first 2.3 mil video was near perfect.
Polygon Team: maybe all variation, for entertainment? probably not, definetly use cutter for hawk and trickster, maybe get some triple kills ^-^
Master Hand: um, yep, beat him as fast as possible.
laughing_gas wrote:
EDIT: if it drives you insane trying to get it, then just move on.
YESSS it's driving me insane!!! I have 3-4 pacifist stages left, don't worry I'll pacifist some more guys. It's just that, Kirby was born a fighter, he needs to throw some punches, can't be pent up all the time, know what I'm sayin'?
just wondering, if you did the run on easy or very easy and got pacifist for every level, would it add up to be more than the "very hard clear" bonus?
It could be hard getting the speed demon bonus if you pacifist every level.
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
you'd get 70,000 points for beating very easy, vs. 350,000 for beating very hard.
60,000 * 5 (number of stages that aren't pacifist) = 300,000, so you'd be 20,000 points ahead (300,000+70,000) for doing very easy. HOWEVER, you'd also lose the many ponts of speed demon, hawk, star finish, trickster, etc. bonuses.
so, no. and where's the fun in doing a TAS of very easy? C'mon, anyone can get a high score on very easy... :P
And Super Smash Bros. is a fighting game... it'd be an insult if Kirby got to the Masterhand without doing any damage.
but good thinking anyways.
For entertainment purposes, here is the vid of Link+yoshiteam on Very easy...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4cW_6AJtwo
full video download(11.6MB)
http://files.filefront.com/wowwmv/;6300385;;/fileinfo.html
For vs Link I use the 'walk-off' technique. Basically 99% of the time, Link will pull out a bomb at the final position to the very left of the stage at 4:39 on the timer. If you push him off at just the right time, he will pull out a bomb instead of attempting to rescue himself. The reason you would not be able to do this level the same way as in Very Hard difficulty, is because you would not be able to get Link to run after you, in fact for the first 15-20 seconds of the match, Link is 100% motionless(unless you hit him, then he will start moving around) The edge drop might work, but it would require different timing, and possibly not get speedster or taunt.
For Yoshi team I got Pacifist and Yoshi Rainbow in a controlled way, IE: you have somewhat control over who dies first and when they die..and doing it the way shown in the video ONLY works for Yoshiteam on very easy, not Kirby team or polygon team...not even in a 2 player match with a 9 handicap and a 1 handicap and damage ratio set to 2! Beating the game this way would give you far less points tho, in the long run, including not getting Very Hard Clear as comicalflop mentioned. Plus you would most likely not get Speed Demon.
anyway, the vid is quite hilarious..
EDIT: I just realised that up to that point in the game, comicalflop has FAR more points then I do in this vid! At the end of Yoshiteam comicalflop has 266,000pts while I have a mere 258,350pts....so doing it this way would be far less efficient....and definitely less entertaining.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
agh I can't view it, youtube links don't work for me 100% of the time, bummer.
BtT Youtube LinkMario Bros. Youtube link
I'll try to squeeze in Pikachu tonight, maybe even DK as well. Then I'd have caught up with antd.
i noticed in your fight against link he did the whirlwind before he died, which costed you a second, do you think with manipulation he could simply drop down and die like he's supposed to?
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
agh I can't view it, youtube links don't work for me 100% of the time, bummer.
BtT Youtube LinkMario Bros. Youtube link
I'll try to squeeze in Pikachu tonight, maybe even DK as well. Then I'd have caught up with antd.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
I'm going to try and rack up massive damage against Samus.
Pacifist in Mario Bros. is really difficult- on their own without me damaging them, they have incredible platform recovery. I have never seen them die on their own, not even on very easy.
about BtT... two jumps, it seems like thet up+air spinwheel gives upward momentum and lest me Z-cancel to start my run faster. AFA? what's AFA? I do downward drill to get the three in that tall column on the right, and I tested stone and it's slower, any other suggestions for that section? I work best when stuydying videos instead of word descriptions (I use SDA runs instead of FAQs for example.) I studied the 14"07 video and could not figure any way to improve an additional 21 frames in my run.
I'm going to go the full distance and keep working, and at the end if anyone finds any glaring faults or big improvements of time/score, I'll do a revised version right afterwards before submitting. i.e. if ppl do testing and get good results, I'll try having Link die by edge grabbing, I'll attempt Yoshi Pacifist, as well as Mario Pacifist, beating WR of BtT, etc. But they have to be good, PROVEN results.
currently I have 4:57 on Pikachu, I'm trying to reduce that to 4:58. I should have that, and maybe DK up as well tonight. definetly Pikachu fight should be up.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
bumper clear? that's Mario Bros. using the bumper to defeat the opponent? it'd be hard to make that a killing move though, I've never seen an opponent be defeated by that bumper. Remember, on very hard the brothers have amazing recovery, you have to be very BM to spike them and make them not come back.
That seems like not easily reachable since a kill from that bumper is so hard, since it always makes them hit the triangle platforms and bounce back.... but I just got a 4:58 on Pikachu, and I'd hate to lose that.
Pikachu 4:58 .m64
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
heck, it was faster than antd's by 2 seconds. I'm very proud at how that turned out. I got 4:57 by swallowing him on the right side of the building, then thought that maybe I could lure him faster on the right. It took a bunch of tries, because most of the time he'd do an attack that slowed him down, but running right, then hopping backwards and he chased after me foolishly to his death.
OT: hey, I'm getting close to 1,000 posts.
awesome run so far! Alot of the techniques you are using are pretty cool stuff to do, but would be nearly impossible to feat in a realtime play-thru(Cutter technique on Yoshi Team, etc..)
I'm impressed. Keep them comin!
EDIT: you should also not have any problem beating nicos record for Metal Mario Stage...as shown in my vid.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
I'm glad you're impressed. Feel impressed yourself, a lot of this is based on your work so you're the pioneer.
vs. Pikachu WMV
I'm happy that things are coming along nicely and smoothly. Just 8 more levels to go!
And I realized that currently I have a "highest score in fastest time" speed/score ratio going. I might create another run with an absolute highest score in mind, containing speed/score tradeoffs, but for now it's highest score in the lowest time. and no, that doesn't mean that beating it as fast as possible acheives that goal, because mathematically getting fastest time (like with Fox) in score per second calculations, is way lower than my Kirby run because 1 second = 50 bonus points, and comparitively my run scorewise is way higher than that. So official from now on: highest score in least possible time.
I'll look at highest score possible run later, like getting pacifist in Yoshi Team, etc., and really bilking out as many bonus points as possible per stage.
If anyone has a problem with me labeling my run as "highest Score in lowest time" feel free to comment. it's just that, given the new strategies that are debated, and how my run looks so far, it also seems to be most compatible with the requirements from TASvideos.org.
and it's good that it'll beat the highest score world record.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
How do you get DK to spin over you? I can't quite get that to work. I know to edge grab, but he doesn't want to seem to spin when I'm in postion on the edge. He'll spin occasionally, but never to the right and over me.
