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I've decided to stick with this one because it's so glitchy and has so much potential. You may be surprised what you'll find in my imperfect but entertaining WIP demonstration.
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Interesting glitch, but Widget seems to move EXTREMELY slowly. I haven't played this game before, but is that the pace of the entire game, or does it pick up later?
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Maximus wrote:
Interesting glitch, but Widget seems to move EXTREMELY slowly. I haven't played this game before, but is that the pace of the entire game, or does it pick up later?
I think Mouse Widget can move quite quickly. Unfortunately the left/right warping only works in one-screenful rooms or right when a screen/level ends. So yes, I think the pace does pick up.
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Mega Slank has been completed and the boss destroyed in humiliating fashion. Plus, Widget kills himself through a platform at the end =D
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Another WIP. I do Level 4 (Flim Flam) first because you get the Dolphin Widget power from there which is required to pass Level 2 (Bizarre Brain).
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This thread will mainly be for discussing Widget glitches and such. Since my first version of the run got rejected, hopefully my next version will fare better. Thanks already to CAD and such for helping out with some glitches. If you guys find any more let me know.... [EDIT by Bisqwit: Merged into the existing thread. There is really no need to start a new thread for the same game.]
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Since I've got Widget on my mind at the moment (not to mention that stupidly catchy music) I'll list the improvements I made over your movie, as well as some of the things I learned about the game in the process. Hopefully it will help you out. http://www.rphaven.org/cad/Widget2.fcm Frame 327: You mentioned that zipping is only useful when the room is 1 screen wide, and this isn't entirely true. Since Zipping doesn't scroll the screen, and it replaces you at the center of the screen when you're done, zipping is useful any time that Widget starts on the left side of the screen. If you zip to the center of the screen and then stop, you'll be placed at the center of the screen. Note that Zipping immediately would have caused a crash here, that's why I jumped. Frame 1532: Not sure what happened here with you. You paused to dodge the bird, I didn't have to. Many times it's possible to kill the enemies faster with some clever shooting instead of having to dodge them or take damage from them. Frame 1770: The warp glitch in action. I tried doing some cheat searches to discover the true behavior of the L+R glitch, but I didn't find what I was looking for. As far as I can tell, Zipping will replace your current surroundings with the clipping information of somewhere up and to the right. Frame 1880: You can jump while zipping. Frame 1950: Since I got to the ledge faster, the ghost didn't have to knock me back down. Frame 2046: Because the two ghosts are still on the screen, neither of the slugs appeared. Frame 2288: I don't know what made you think it's faster to zip ahead, get hit, warp back, and walk through the enemy. If you must take damage, it's faster to just walk into the enemy and turn your back to it at the last possible moment. This causes about 2 frames of delay, whereas zipping ahead causes several frames of delay - I mean, the actual zipping forward part wastes your time. Frame 2936: Warp glitch again. I snagged the E-tank in the box at the top of the screen. I don't know if this is useful or not, but if you're going to be taking more damage to save time throughout the movie, having more energy will allow you to do it more often. Also, note how I jumped before I activated the glitch. If you don't jump, you'll get shifted backward and stuck in the floor and it will cause several more frames of delay. Frame 3070: Using some smaller jumps, I was able to avoid hitting my head against the wall like you did. Frame 3265: This room was full of crash zones. My theory is that using L+R at certain points will warp you to places with invalid clipping data (off the screen or something like that) and cause the freeze. However, I was still able to zip for 5 frames here before a crash occurred. Frame 3291: This is a really awesome maneuver. I fall to the spikes (zipping any more in this zone will cause a crash), Turn backwards at the last moment possible causing it to knock me onto the pillar, zip off the pillar, through the bird and the wall, and drop straight to the ladder. This is similar to what you did, but... Frame 3551: Whoa, I'm still invincible! I guess climbing on a ladder preserves your invincibility after getting hurt, and changing rooms may reset it as well. I use it to walk right through the slug, shooting it a few times to knock it out of my way just as the invincibility wears off. With this head start, I use some tricky jumps to jump past all the hamburgers without even bothering with them. Frame 3900: Zipped to the center of the screen again. Frame 4545: No pausing, no hesitation. I only lost 2 frames of conveyor belt time because of the bee, but that's a lot less than you lost. Frame 4661: Small jump straight onto the next platform. Frame 4860: Another E-tank. Frame 5036: I begin zipping toward the exit, grabbing the health refill along the way. Frame 5150: Boss time. I had to refrain from zipping for a few frames due to crash zones. Frame 5165: I use the time spent waiting for the shot to hit the boss to situate myself on the invisible platform. When it connects, I start blasting away. Notice how I also snag the magic expansion along the way. And those are all the improvements I made. I think this movie might still be improvable, due to the following facts: -I completely forgot that you can shoot with an upward slant by holding Up. I could have saved myself from taking damage a few more times with this, and I could have killed the boss a little bit faster. -It's probably very worth it to grab the gun upgrade in the 3rd room. That's all I have for now. Hope I helped.
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That is some seriously amazing stuff. You find any more, you know where to post ;)
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Mouse stuff. http://www.rphaven.org/cad/zipmouse.fcm http://www.rphaven.org/cad/zipmouse2.fcm Apparently the mouse can zip too, it just doesn't work while B-dashing. Wow, this movie is going to come down to 5 minutes or something.
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Nice! So, route-wise, I don't think anything's gonna change. The game has to be completed in the order of 1-4-2-3-5 to get the proper widgets in order and be able to bypass certain levels (unless CAD can find a water skip for bypassing Dolphin Widget, which is unlikely). The main changes will be in level strategy thanks to all the tricks CAD found. Just out of interest CAD, how did you find these tricks? Debugging?
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Nah, I just watched your movie for things that looked like they could be improved, then tried them. There were even about 5 tricks I tried that didn't work, such as zipping with the dolphin, or clutching ladders from far away using L+R.
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Alright, so here are my new boss strategies: Mega Slank - same as in CAD's WIP, could do without the flubbed shot at the end. Flim-Flam - luck manipulate and get two shots off each time Bizarre Brain - luck manipulate to destroy him ASAP; this is gonna be fucking HARD! Dr. Dante - not sure if he can be manipulated to turn vulnerable early, cause he does that whole "hands up" animation beforehand. If anyone has theories on how he can be manipulated to turn vulnerable early please let me know. Ratchet - manipulate so he always turns up at the same spot or, to make it more entertaining, on the same level. If anyone has any theories on luck manipulation in the BB, DD and Ratchet fights please let me know! Quickly! And also, quick question on your LAWL SHORTCUT - is it important that you press left/right/A simultaneously? Can it be done without pressing A?
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L+R is all that's needed to trigger teleporting, no A is required. Also, note that you could shave a few frames on my boss battle by firing your first shot angled-up immediately when you appear. I waited a few frames before firing because I had to jump and rise to his level. Well, I'll take one last look at your movie to see if I can find any more shortcuts or tricks. Then it's up to you. Good luck! Edit: Alright, here are the last of the tricks I can find. (Maybe.) This is faster than what you did, and saves you 2 delays. Another quick exit I'm really curious why you didn't use the mouse in this room, you had the MP for it. - Note that I picked up the E-tank and the MP-tank at the end, and I don't know whether or not these are needed at all for the remainder of the run. If you don't think so, don't pick them up! Apparently, you can skip the dolphin. What good does it do, though? Would a route change be any faster? Quick shortcut and an illustration of the funny but completely useless ladder glitch. Edit 2:
Flim-Flam - luck manipulate and get two shots off each time
How about six shots? - (obviously not optimized completely, but you get the idea.) Edit 3: Bizarre Brain beaten in about 7 seconds! - Probably not as fast as possible, though. Invisible platforms for the win!
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Alright, I'm actually gonna PLAN each level this time! SHOCK HORROR! I'll be posting "snapshot runs" of the remaining four levels to this thread for critique and refinement. EDIT: I think it's possible to skip Rockman Widget for the one time I need him in Dr. Dante's level, but it probably wouldn't matter anyway and I think it's slower than actually using DD. I'll post a WIP once I get it down.
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Cause of crashes when zipping: When you zip, the screen doesn't scroll. After zipping, if you perform any action that would normally cause the screen to scroll to the right (namely walking right or getting hit while facing left and jumping backward), you're immediately warped back to the center of the screen and the screen scrolls. When you L+R, it warps your hitbox to somewhere else in the level data. If your hitbox gets warped onto a monster, you'll take damage. (This is what causes the "self-inflicted damage") If, during zipping, you take damage while faced right, the game will try to cause you to jump backward as usual. However, the screen can't scroll left because you're under the effects of zipping. This causes the crash. The crash recovers eventually when what would be the jumping back animation finishes. In short: Don't get hit while facing right during zipping, this causes the crash.
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Er...your Flim Flam and Bizarre Brain links are the same. XD
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Fixed.
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CtrlAltDestroy wrote:
Cause of crashes when zipping: When you zip, the screen doesn't scroll. After zipping, if you perform any action that would normally cause the screen to scroll to the right (namely walking right or getting hit while facing left and jumping backward), you're immediately warped back to the center of the screen and the screen scrolls. When you L+R, it warps your hitbox to somewhere else in the level data. If your hitbox gets warped onto a monster, you'll take damage. (This is what causes the "self-inflicted damage") If, during zipping, you take damage while faced right, the game will try to cause you to jump backward as usual. However, the screen can't scroll left because you're under the effects of zipping. This causes the crash. The crash recovers eventually when what would be the jumping back animation finishes. In short: Don't get hit while facing right during zipping, this causes the crash.
Errr...I think you don't understand what I meant by "self-inflicted damage." It's a glitch where Mouse Widget presses L/R (I think it's only in the air) and he takes damage without hitting an enemy. You know it works when the sprite suddenly doesn't line up.
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Yes, but it doesn't work anywhere, only when your hitbox gets teleported onto a monster or a spike, usually on another screen. Note that, if you were Biped Widget when doing this, the game would crash.
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Okay, I've started redoing the run! For the first level I'm basically copying CAD's WIP frame by frame except for the parts he mentioned needed optimization. A quick question: was there some trick to not getting that second slug/caterpillar thing to load right at the start? I keep having to shoot him, costing 7 or 8 frames, even on the go.
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theenglishman, have you by chance been to the Workbench lately?
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theenglishman wrote:
A quick question: was there some trick to not getting that second slug/caterpillar thing to load right at the start? I keep having to shoot him, costing 7 or 8 frames, even on the go.
Easy, just don't shoot the ghost. If you take damage on the slug, you'll have to hit your head against the wall. Take damage with the ghost, and you don't have to.
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Zurreco: Yes I was. My first Widget run got rejected. CAD: You misunderstand what I'm saying. I mean that slug within the first 400 frames, right here.
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theenglishman wrote:
Zurreco: Yes I was. My first Widget run got rejected.
I was more or less referencing that CAD went ahead and submitted a Widget run in 6:39. Do you expect to improve your run by 4 minutes?
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