I did some tests and it seems to be slower. This is the best I could get strategy wise after some short testing. I tried to do it without bluesuit, which would save some time, but didn't manage to preserve speed all the way without it as I can't do the second damage boost. It was about 15 frames slower.
Oh man, that was very cool and it's a shame that it doesn't save time. In the PAL version it's possible to get a bounce in the very ledge of the door, which makes samus touch the spiked platform and get a damage that makes her go to the last platform and that in full speed without delaying for the blue suit. Unfortunatelly, when trying to bounce in the very ledge of the door, Samus just loose all speed for some reason and doesn't bounce. Thanks for testing it!
Cpadolf wrote:
Also, tested hero's idea of delaying the first R-tank and those missiles until later. Using this method, it looks like it's 2 seconds slower. So unless there's some radically better way of doing it, it seems like a no go.
Another bad news... :-(
Btw, regarding that early PB to open the Yellow door leading to blue Brinstar, is it really possible to open it without delaying Samus in her way for that missile pack in the pipe? Is it possible to know how many frames it would save?
Edit: I noticed there was something like a bounce in the door in your First Super Missile room test... would it be possible to bounce like that in the door for the WS strategy?
Anyway speaking of that area. Can you Missile the Enemy and hit the door with a Spazer Shot right after, then jump out the water and CWJ of the door into the Reverse Boost?
Interesting idea, i just don't know if there is a speed limit for this trick or if Samus would catch the door in time to get the Reverse CWJ animation. But if it works it would be really cool.
Edit: Managed to get to the end of the room, but this strat is probably not worth due to health issues. Here is the best i could do but it could probably be faster.
Edit 2: If it was possible to use the speed preservation trick here it could be interesting, though there would be not much room for running.
Edit 3: I managed to make it this time, landing on the last platform. From there you just have to do as Cpadolf did in his 100% run, but as i said before it wastes too much health, also it could be slower anyway. Take a look here.
Edit 3: Some time ago, me and Behemoth found a trick for WS that allowed us to save some seconds in the Spiked Moving Platforms going for the Energy Tank. I've been thinking and maybe something could be done keep the speed gained in the two previous room to cross that Spiked Moving Platforms in full speed. This is the best i could do. Maybe you guys find a way to make it work. Maybe a jump through the door while it's openning or something like that... The way we used on PAL seems not to work due to difference in physics, but it would take 100 health damage by that moving platform to send Samus to the end of the room anyway.
I feel like an idiot here! I forgot that Samus was wearing the Gravity Suit. Anyway, the point is still valid, but i think it will not work unfortunatelly, at least not the way i planned. Here is a better example of what i was talking about. It seems the spiked platform could be used to do that back and forth trick to keep the speed of Samus and maybe go further. The problem about this strategy, even if it works, is that you loose 100 health points and need the Wave Beam (maybe not???) to perform.
Neat strategy for the hoppers. It might be possible to get both drops in that room now.
Thanks, dude!
Cpadolf wrote:
Door-CWJ (or inverse-walljump overall) only works when Samus is facing to the right, so it unfortunately wouldn't work to do it on kraids door.
Pitty!
Cpadolf wrote:
Ok, so all in all the whole Pink Brinstar switch around saved about 3 seconds. It's 4 seconds faster than the old run, but around 1 second of that came from improving the reverse gate room.
Awesome!
Cpadolf wrote:
I really like how this looks too. It's a much smoother route, and removes a couple of ugly looking parts.
I know what you mean, now we have some action instead of just a morphball rolling. We have some Samus Walljumping, Running, Damage Boosting, Killing while falling and then a sweet CWJ in the door. It's non stop action.
Yeah I was just working on that. It turned out decently. I'm assuming there's some room for improvement though.
EssEmVee
Thats pretty Awesome. Btw, Cp, i noticed Samus doesn't catch the missile for it to hit the hopper in time, unfortunatelly, but, it seems you have enough time for, instead of shooting the Super while falling, shoot first a missile and then a super on him, given that the cooldown between one missile and one super is much smaller than one super and one missile. See if it works...
Btw, Forensics, thanks for the microstorage link.
Edit: Btw, regarding that Screw Attack through the kagos, here is a realtime demonstration.
Edit 2: The strategy to kill the hopper i posted above failed miserably, but this worked.
Edit 3: Some time ago, me and Behemoth found a trick for WS that allowed us to save some seconds in the Spiked Moving Platforms going for the Energy Tank. I've been thinking and maybe something could be done keep the speed gained in the two previous room to cross that Spiked Moving Platforms in full speed. This is the best i could do. Maybe you guys find a way to make it work. Maybe a jump through the door while it's openning or something like that... The way we used on PAL seems not to work due to difference in physics, but it would take 100 health damage by that moving platform to send Samus to the end of the room anyway.
Regarding Kraid's room, isn't it possible, when leaving it, to run and use the door for that CWJ in a way that in the next room you can morph in mid air and reach the middle pipe for a bounce, landing close to the door?
Wow, yeah, that alternative route after the PB in Pink Brinstar is something like 2 seconds faster. I didn't optimize the end of the test either (the last mockball), so it could probably be done a bit faster still. Should be possible to get 2 supers to drop too (one from a hopper and one from the flyer at the end), and hopefully you can get away with using less than 2 supers on the hoppers as well.
CoolStuffINC
That's really cool! Thanks for testing it.
hero of the day wrote:
They cost 560 frames approximately or 9.5 seconds
Do you have an smv of passing the spike using the screw attack?
Nope, unfortunatelly. Anyway it was just realtime tests i was doing. It's not hard also, you just have to kinda "SpaceJump up" in the exactly momment the spiked platform is going down. You just have to be very close to it.
Edit: Regarding that route change, just another two time savers i remembered tht would be possible using spring ball and space jump: when cleaning up Brinstar and going for the Missile Pack under the bridge (First Super Missile room), you could leave a power bomb on the bridge, get the missile, mockball and use the spring ball to go through the door straight down.
Also, when going for the Spore Spawn's Super Missile pack, when you reach the first bug pipe, do a knockback boost while shooting a Super Missile in the green door, go for the Super and when returning, charge the Spazer, and right before jumping over the pipes, release the beam and space jump full speed to the next room, then use a super in the block and mockball through the passage. If you guys find a way to make the door to open without the plasma, it would save time in the usual route too and maybe even more if you go for the Energy Tank above the Super Passage before going down (as Hero suggested), so when leaving that area you would be in full speed with the boostball.
Edit 2: Regarding the Super drops, it seems is possible to get another Super Drop from the Hopper right above the passage down to the PB. The idea here is to shoot up a Missile as late as possible, get the power bomb and quickly jump up, it seems Samus can catch the missile while it kills the Big Hopper, so you can use the Grapple to collect the Super.
Edit 3: Oh sh*t, forgot that you don't have the space jump in the usual route. :-p
Kago stuff:
Is there a run that currently uses the screw attack to pass the spike platforms? I don't think I've seen this done before.
I never saw any run using this too, but it's something i found sometime ago and was wondering if it was faster or slower.
hero of the day wrote:
Route change:
I have been contemplating a binstar cleanup route change too. No matter what I come up with, it always seems like the current route is the fastest possible way. Like you said above, your route idea would include another 10 second elevator ride. The improvements to be had in the cleanup would be awesome with the spring/screw/space stuff, but I don't know if it can make up for that extra elevator trip.
It seems hard to test if it would be or not faster, but if it was at least equally fast, i'd love to see a change. It seems that despite the boring elevator transition, it could be more entertaining to change the route and the way some rooms are cleared.
lxx4xNx6xxl wrote:
Reeve I think the fastest way for the Kago Room after the Kung-Fu Hunters would be what Saturn did in his GT Code TAS. Which is what I believe they were planning to do anyway.
I remembered that after i posted, but i was wondering if using the Screw Attack to go through the Spiked Platforms would be slower or just equally fast.
Edit: Btw, hero, doesn't the elevator ride cost 8sec and 30 frames? Also i was wondering if the route itself would be slower or despite the improvements possible by the new equipments, it would save some time...
BTW that's a great idea about the Power Bomb Reeve!!!! If it doesn't hit the door they can probably Morph and drop a Power Bomb and unmorph before the land instead of just landing and running to ball up to the Missile Pack. Also that way might reduce lag as well. This idea might even have use for console!!! I'll test if its faster for us in a few days and thanks for the idea!
Also about the room before Draygon. I think that would be slower then just grappling across honestly.
Thanks, Forensics! At first i didn't think about the Power Bomb stuff as a console trick, but yeah, it would save some time too, because when returning and space jumping, you wouldn't have to morph in mid air to land the power bomb and wait for it to open the door.
Regarding the CWJ stuff, yeah, thinking about it seems slower, but it looked cool in my mind! :-D
lxx4xNx6xxl wrote:
Anyway Reeve you've had some great ideas so far, keep it up!
I think i ran out of ideas now. :-p
Edit: It seems i was mistaken... here is another one:
Don't know if you guys considered this already, but: In Cp's movie, when he reaches the bubble room, he goes straight to the hiden missile with a CWJ. My idea is to avoid that missile and instead go straight up, and let the missile for after LN. Now, After collecting the Reserve Tank (Norfair clean-up), you guys usually leave the northwest room with a mockball getting a damage and going straight through the door, the idea is to keep that speed going straight to the missile, but When Samus reaches a certain position in the screen, land a power bomb in a way that it cleans the left pb shortcut, so you won't have delay. Basically this idea ocurred to me long time ago and was pointed for the realtime runners, thing is it seems it would work for TAS too, at least in my mind.
Edit 2: Go to "Edit 4:".
Edit 3: Another idea: It seems possible, i don't know if it would be faster. In the Brinstar Clean-up after WS, when you reach the big room (the one with the Charge Beam in the bottom) you guys go to the left passage, where there is a missile and a hidden passage to the a Power Bomb pack. My idea is to get to that room, quickly handle the two big hoppers, go down to the power bomb using the quick fall through the crumble block, get the PB and quickly walljump back, and go through the door using the last spike on the ground for a damage boost landing on the crumble block in the next screen. After the crumble block you just have to fall using the crumble blocks trick again and use a mockball under the block to land a power bomb when Samus start to fall to clean the passage to Spore Spawn's Super Missile and opening the yellow door to the E.T. I was afraid Samus would have not time enough to reach the bottom after falling through the crumble block (where the PB pack is) and come back, but with a realtime test i could fall and jump back (not collecting the PB pack), so i think it's at least possible if not faster.
Edit 5: Regarding that double kago room in Lower Norfair, i know it's possible to go up through the spiked platforms without taking damage (the damage here doesn't seem to be a problem anyway) using the Screw Attack, so instead of using the morph/springball, wouldn't it be faster to use the Screw Attack, so Samus wouldn't have to worry about the unmorph animation in the top of the room. I don't know if jumping is faster than springballing but this came up in my mind and could be tested if it wasn't yet.
Edit 4: hero of the day wrote:
That's awesome. The only concern here is that there might not be enough energy to do the shinespark.
I noticed that in Cp's run, after collecting Crocomire's Energy Tank, he dives in the lava (Saturn's trick to cross WS lake was not known at the time) and loses 77 points of health, also he left behind some 30 points of health by not using the shinespark/wrap around after killing Crocomire, and he reached Kraid with 50 points of health. It doesn't seem to me he stopped to refill, so if you get the same drops as he did and only avoid diving in the lava you would have 77+50 health points. In Cp's last smv he lost 74 health points for the shinespark, so, if you guys manage to find a way to make this shinespark stuff work, health could not be a problem at all.
Edit 5: Is this useful.
Btw, can anyone give me the microstorage link?
Edit 6 (last one, i promise): Regarding this smv i posted above, after some not very precise calculation, I found that it's useless, cause if not slower it would be at most equally fast but loosing more than twice the health.
Edit 7 (I'm a liar): I was thinking about a different route, seems possible but not doable. Also, of course i didn't test it to see if it's faster or not, i'm just throwing it here, as i said before, not worrying in beeing dumb.
The route would change actually after WS. My idea is to take the same route as the any% run when after WS going to Maridia and the X-Ray could be collected while going down the Brinstar Shaft. Also, due to lack of Health, the Maridia mainstreet missile would be taken after Lower Norfair/Norfair. After getting the Maridia mainstreet Missile pack, you guys would have to go up leaving Maridia and emerging on Crateria surface. Once in Crateria surface you would go collect the PB pack and enter the Gauntlet. After that you would proceed to Brinstar clean up, and then Blue Brinstar Clean up and going up to Crateria again as usual. Biggest problem with this route is that you would need around 530 health points for the two shinesparks (Cp had 5 Energy Tanks and 1 Reserve Tank, but was low in health) going for X-ray and back. Also, there would be less Energy Tanks (Doesn't seem much of a problem from Maridia on) and 2 Super Missiles packs less.
Edit 8: Thinking about the above suggestion, it may not be that hard to handle with the health situation. After reaching Pink Brinstar, there could be a way to get one big health of the cactis without delay. In the next room some crabs and bugs could be manipulated to give big healths too. In Brinstar Shaft there could be a way to get a big health from the small leach and maybe even use the unmorph animation to get one big health from the bug in the left pipe or something like that. After charging the shinespark, if done as in the last .smv posted by hero, some missiles could be used in the enemies to make them quickly drop some big healths too before activating the Shinespark.
If this route proves possible, there could be some interesting new strats for the clean-ups, as for example using Screw Attack for Northeast Landing Site PB pack, Enter the Gauntlet in full Speed using the spring Ball, get the two missiles behind the chozo holding the E.T with a spring blue Ball, spacing jump up in full speed after collecting that E.T below the Charge Beam, and using the springball to land a PB to open the Yellow dor leading to Blue Brinstar while keeping the speed to enter the pipe and collect the Missile Pack. This are the ones i remembered.
Edit 9 (probably the most edited post in history): I just realized that the suggested route has one more elevator transition than the usual route. It's a sh*t that the elevators cost so many in-game seconds.
If you have the energy, and if it is possible to charge the shinespark after defeating kraid and still enter the door on the first possible frame, then it seems like it saves about 30 frames. Compared to my old run anyway, but that could obviously be improvable.
Smv
Thanks for making it, and i liked the .smv's name.
Edit: I think i sugegsted this before, but i don't remember if it was tested or not, so i'll suggest again: Right after killing Kraid, charge a shinespark while the spikes in the ground are desapearing, enter the room in the right to get the Varia, back to Kraid's room but jumping through door transition, shoot a Super Missile in mid air and shinespark, so Samus goes over the pipe in the next room and reaches the door.
Oh yeah, thanks, actually it's in the next page. Well, you said you tested and the spikes keep in the way of Samus, so it was slower. That's a shame.
Anyway, had two other ideas: In the first Brinstar clean up (after Wrecked Ship), when going for the last missile, it seems it's possible to land a power bomb in mid air, between the first bug pipe and the two breakeable blocks in the left, so it will open the yellow door leading to Blue Brinstar. Doing that will allow to open the door faster when returning from Norfair and going for the Blue Brinstar clean-up.
The other idea is for the Missile pack before Draygon. The idea is to get some run-up in the previous run, do a very low jump through the door or after the door in a way that you can CWJ in the two blocks in the water. After that i don't know what would be better, to use the grapple blocks next to the missile or morph in mid to go further...
Health won't be an issue, as in a new run the WS attic will use the grapple technique to reach the crateria missile pack instead of the shinespark method.
Where was the video of this posted? I know I've seen it at some point but I can't seem to find it.
I think this is what you're talking about. Also, there is this trick Saturn posted in the same page long time ago.
Edit: Btw, it was in page 200 of this thread and i was looking for it too.
Edit 2: Regarding Wave beam, it saves time in the blue gate when going for Crocomire's lair, cause you can shoot in the downwest gate from northreast (when you enter the room), so when you get there you have no delay shooting a missile to open it from oposite side.
Edit 3: Would it be possible to go for Kraid After Maridia?
The only other room where two shinesparks are used is in Draygon's room, but the second shinespark doesn't even reach the wall. Though, thinking about it, maybe this trick could be used in console for PAL, so after the second shinespark on Draygon, Samus would recover fast enough to try another shinespark or something like that.
Edit: I think i sugegsted this before, but i don't remember if it was tested or not, so i'll suggest again: Right after killing Kraid, charge a shinespark while the spikes in the ground are desapearing, enter the room in the right to get the Varia, back to Kraid's room but jumping through door transition, shoot a Super Missile in mid air and shinespark, so Samus goes over the pipe in the next room and reaches the door.
Hero, regarding that same room i sugested the damage boost, i did a poor test just to see if it was faster or not and it was around 25/30 frames faster using the grapple, but you guys could probably make it faster. Also, after the damage boost and after shooting down (grapple can be used for that), if you shoot the grapple up from the very ledge you're falling, it's possible to reach the cable right above Samus and maybe get a damage that alow Samus to land next to the door. The problem is you would loose too much health in this room, also, maybe this last damage doesn't even work cause you would have to quickly turn around in mid air after destroying the block to have Samus facing right for the damage to the left. Another problem would be (i don't even know if this is possible) to manipulate the sparks in the cable, because in my test when i shot up the grapple was not connecting because the spark was not there. Anyway, maybe this last damage boost is not even possible or would not save time.
I'll try to test it, but I think he vanishes immediately if you use something greater than missiles on him. If it did work, that would save about 120 frames right there, as well as 12 missiles.
Well, i asure you Phantoon doesn't desapear right after all particles hit him, but there's not much time for you to hit him again. I managed to hit him with one missile (or super missile) right after the Wave Beam Combo some time ago when i was making a phantoon two rounds with two power wave shield video for youtube, but the problem was that i had to be very close to him. The big problem is that you can only shoot a missile once all particles despear and they'll desapear once they touch Phantoon's body. After that there's just some frames to hit Phantoon and depending on how far you are from Phantoon, the missile may not reach him in time. The only way i see this working is if you manipulate the particles to touch Phantoon the way you guys did to Crocomire, and right before the particles reach him, you'll have to be running or jumping fast enough to give the missile speed to connect to him from far, so you can do something like stop on a dime and keep firering the last missiles and super while stutter walking in his direction. Well, again, i may be saying bullshit here.
Here is one .smv showing Samus hitting Phantoon with a Super Missile after the Power Wave Combo. Recorded with Snes9x 1.43 v17.
The ice beam would save so little time throughout the run, that it would not be worth the backtrack to collect it early. Getting the grapple early is a must though, so there wouldn't be the benefit of doing croc later either.
I see. Thinking about what forensics said and watching the run again i see that the grapple has much more potential, and the ice beam doesn't help much when you have to clean some areas. Thanks!
Eye of the beholder:
Good suggestions, I will try to answer what I can:
1. There isn't enough room to charge a blue suit here
Sorry i was not clear... i'm not talking about the platform you first land once you get to the bottom room, but jumping to the ground and doing a short charge, and then jump above the robot to do the mockblueball.
hero of the day wrote:
3. Not sure exactly which room you are referring to here. Can you please clarify? Landing in water here would be a problem due to lack of gravity suit.
The room right after the Energy Tank after defeating Phantoon, in the right side of the Ship. After collecting the Energy Tank, in the room next, Cpadolf clean the passage and jump, but then there's a eletric cabe in the way down and he does a turn around animation to avoid getting pushed. If you avoid that damage, you can get a damage from the eletric cabe below and get a backward boost, and then in the middle of the boost you quickly cancel it in the right position to shoot the breakeable cabe to reach the bottom of the room. After this room is the one with spiked moving platforms and water, and lots of spikes in the ground, and it will lead to the mainstreet WS room.
Edit: Ok, watching again i realized you can use the grapple to inflict damage on Samus even if she is invulnerable, right? So you can still use the turn around animation in the eletric cabe and still use the grapple to inflict damage on Samus in the cabe below, so you use the Backward Boost to reach the breackeable block, shoot it and fall to the bottom.
Edit 2: this Is a .smv of the room I'm talking about with the damage boost, realtime made. It was found by SnUfFiT86 and posted in m2k2 forum. To make this .smv SnUfFiT86 used snes9x 1.53.
Edit 3: Btw, can't really ice beam be picked up when heading to Wrecked Ship? I know you would have to backtrack to that area to go for the Tower missile, and maybe entering the pause menu, but it would enable the option to visit Crocomire's area later, maybe even after beating Ridley, making it faster by the use of Spazer, Space Jump and Spring Ball. The Ice beam would, of course, be used to glitch through the ceiling when going for the Spring Ball.
Edit 4 (I hope so): After Phantoon, there's the rooms with the robots and then comes the main room and Samus is on her way to the First Super Missile pack on the right... Isn't it possible to shoot a slow beam, run armpumping to catch the beam and mockball in a speed that the door opens?
Interesting idea, so you could lay the pb when mockballing under the Chozo and you can mockball with high speed straigh to the second missile pack too. It would be great if you had enough missiles to open the door to the Reserve Tank area, so when going for the Brinstar Clean-up you could shoot a slow beam and run and jump straight through the door, mockballing under the chozo statue (if the jump was even possible). It seems your idea wouldn't be hard to test. One negative point, as far as i could notice, is the long room with that crabs in the ground and the flyers comming to you. You wouldn't have missiles to handle all the enemies and would have to just mockball through the crab.
If it had been possible to pre-open the door you could have done a blueball into the next room and destroyed the bomb blocks with your bluesuit, but unfortunately you don't have enough missiles at that point. It might still be possible to do the blueball even if you have to open the door with a super, but that would be at a much lower speed (and would be a bit tricky since you have to get to a certain speed to pass through the gates at all, even with armpumping).
Unfortunatelly, that damn missile pack under the bridge can't be collected without triggering the damn gate if so... Leaving the room after collecting it would be too slow unfortunatelly...
Edit: Watching Wrecked ship some ideas came to my attention, and as i don't know if it was tested or not i thought it would be better to share them and not worry about beeing dumb.
1: When going to to Phantoon's lair, in the bottom of Wrecked Ship, Samus drop a Power Bomb to break the block in the small passage leading to the Eyed door. Isn't it faster to do a Short Charge to break the block with a blue ball?
2: After collecting the 2nd Super Missile pack, instead of landing a PB to break the above block, Isn't it faster to use a Short Charge and blue ball?
3:In the room after collecting the WS Energy Tank, isn't it faster to avoid the damage in the eletric stuff and instead get a damage boost from the below eletric stuff to make Samus fly straight down to the water?
Edit 2: In the Landing Site, instead of stopping, and jumping on the Ship to release the diagonal shinespark, isn't it faster to just keep going till after the ship and release the shinespark from there?
Edit 3: This one goes for any% run. When leaving LN, in the top of the 3 red ki-hunters room, start to charge a shinespark there and while going through the door in a way that you can use it in the next pilars, so you don't have to lay two bombs and the power bomb to clean them all.
Edit 4: After the Blue Brinstar clean up and after the Super Missile pack in Crateria, there's a Missile pack in the left but a lot of blocks in the way which are cleaned using a PB, can a Blue Ball be used there or there's not enough space to charge a shinespark?
Do the wraparound shots require charge, or does it also work with uncharged wave?
Iirc, behemoth used a regular shot (not charged) to open the blue brinstar e-tank left door in his realtime run...
Tub wrote:
If charge+wave is acquired early, has anyone tested wave-PB combos against phantoon to sneak in some damage before the missiles start hitting? Will he just disappear before you can stunlock him? Or could you possibly time the wave-PB combos so that they hit at the same time as the final super missile?
It's possible to hit phantoon with missiles after the power wave combo, at least i did hit one missile on him. Don't know if the power wave combo could be delayed in a way that Samus go far enough from him to start the doppler effect, but i think it would not be possible to time the power wave to hit phantoon with the last super toghether, because if the power wave particles are on screen, samus would not be abble to shoot the missiles.
Something else I thought would be cool, would be if we use the ridley KO grab to trigger a free shinespark. It would require doing a CF right before he dies, but getting a free shinespark would save over 85 frames on the time spent charging one up in the etank room.
I didn't even know you could do that. Can you get charge in that room and then let him grab you for a free Shine Spark?
He wants to use a Cristal Flash right before Ridley dies, so the Power Bomb would trigger the death animation and he would grab Samus, cancelling the CF animation and giving a free Shinespark, like Draygon, if i understood correctly, but if this is right than he would waste time not jumping on Ridley right after the final hit. One thing that would be cool though, if the CF is really faster, would be to manipulate Ridley to grab Samus as soon as she lands the power bomb for the CF, and then manipulate him to bring Samus to the exact position to trigger the CF, so you would save time by not having to wait Samus to enter in the CF animation, though, as Ridley would already be with Samus in his claws, i don't know if samus would still have the free Shinespark.
One idea I had was to delay getting the r-tank and the 3 missile containers in the area where the first super missile pack is collected until the green binstar clean up session. This would allow samus to use power bombs on the wall behind the rtank chozo statue when getting the missile tanks. It might prove faster for in-game purposes.
Interesting idea, so you could lay the pb when mockballing under the Chozo and you can mockball with high speed straigh to the second missile pack too. It would be great if you had enough missiles to open the door to the Reserve Tank area, so when going for the Brinstar Clean-up you could shoot a slow beam and run and jump straight through the door, mockballing under the chozo statue (if the jump was even possible). It seems your idea wouldn't be hard to test. One negative point, as far as i could notice, is the long room with that crabs in the ground and the flyers comming to you. You wouldn't have missiles to handle all the enemies and would have to just mockball through the crab.
hero of the day wrote:
I also had the idea of getting the charge beam early. Though it would only be beneficial if the wave beam was also collected. It would allow wrap around shots in the WS attic, croco area, and the landing site when going through the acid gauntlet en route to the etank. Getting the charge beam early costs like 5 seconds.
I thought about the wrap-around shot on crocs lair before for TASers when i found it myself, as i couldn't charge the shinespark in the small terrain where croc die, but thought it wouldn't be benefitial because, for example in Cpadolf's run, he had to handle with health management and a shinespark would only cost more health... regarding the gauntlet wrap around... are you talking about opening the gauntlet door beeing next to the northeast door of the landing site? If so, when testing it in realtime, it proved to be only 1 second faster than jumping and speedbolling the blocks in the gauntlet entry and then spacejumping through the room, but maybe it could be faster in a TAS, finding a way to open the gauntlet door faster than we do. Also you would need more health there too, wouldn't it be a problem? Regarding the Attic room, it seems sexy, but as you have to go to the left to kill all enemies anyway and the last ones are close to the door, it seems it wouldn't be faster than the strat Cpadolf used, unless you are going to use that speedball strat, using the grapple in the eletric tube to gain height and reach the door... These three Wrap around doesn't seem to save the 5 seconds you will loose collecting the charge beam, but i could be wrong anyway.
hero of the day wrote:
Getting the wave beam early would be nice, but I am really struggling to see how it would save any time. It would require much more time at the pipe bugs in order to survive the heated rooms before and after the wave beam. Also, the way the current run does it is very seamless, as dropping down from the speed booster area and going back up is another 5 seconds lost. The main time saved with having the wave beam would be on the gold torizo and maybe 1 second saved on draygon+botwoon. The wave gates can all be open almost as fast using missiles now, so I cannot think of any other reason for having the wave beam early.
Added to the time you'll loose collecting the charge beam early it will be 10 seconds of loss. It could be used to kill Ridley faster if you guys would go for a Norfair one trip, but as you stated that one trip would be slower mainly due to the bosses fight, so i can't see either another use for Wave Beam.
Regarding the wrap around shot, it can be used to open the left door of the blue brinstar energy tank area, when comming back from the invisible bridge. You can shoot diagonally to the right in a certain position when falling down, but i don't it could be usefull. Also, it's possible to use a wrap around shot in that Norfair room after croc, the one with grapple blocks, and a missile in the left, next to a super gate, but again it could be useless.
hero of the day wrote:
Something else I thought would be cool, would be if we use the ridley KO grab to trigger a free shinespark. It would require doing a CF right before he dies, but getting a free shinespark would save over 85 frames on the time spent charging one up in the etank room.
Didn't know the KO grab would give a free shinespark like Draygon... That would be cool to see, but you would have to save some supers you would use in Ridley...
Also, i mentioned collecting the early powerbomb in pink brinstar before, which would save time on high-jump area (if you're going there before speedbooster) and could be used to open the bubble room shortcut, but it seems it would not be an interesting idea.
I should have said something dumb here, as i'm not familiar with TASing.
Edit: I remembered now that most of the time the early power bomb saves is from not having to go for a second trip in Kraid's area.
I was thinking the same. Having only Spazer would really make the fights slower and the best place to loose time is in boss fights unfortunatelly.
A team to improve the 100% run would be awesome and i think the run would be as fucking good as the new RBO you guys came out with. Also, i said that before, i think every new run for this game should be made by a Super Metroid TAS Team, that would warrant the craziest result.
Hum... yeah, i thought it would be just some frames faster if it would even be faster.
Now, does anyone have plans on improving the 100% run? Maybe using that "One trip to Norfair" route... Still don't know if Norfair would be faster or slower in just one trip though due to lack of equipment. Anyway, i'm just curious...
