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Player (67)
Joined: 3/13/2021
Posts: 20
Location: Charlotte, NC
FractalFusion wrote:
Hello UnopenedClosure. Just wondering if you were planning to submit this, or you are still updating the TAS.
My first R2 TAS was submitted, accepted and published about a year ago. I have a rework in progress now that has an extra minute+ of savings already, and I'll make the commentary/overlay vid off of that, but that'll be ready whenever it's ready. The last WIP video I posted is below, although I've shaved an additional 25 seconds off since then Link to video
TAS noob. Completed: Pokemon FireRed/LeafGreen Round 2 In Progress/Backlog: Pokemon FireRed/LeafGreen Any% Reroute Pokemon FireRed/LeafGreen Beat All Trainers The Neverhood Any% NES Monopoly 1 CPU Glitchless
Post subject: FRLG Coop Diploma
Player (102)
Joined: 1/1/2022
Posts: 14
Location: Washington
After being extremely impressed by Mr.Wints Red/Blue Coop Diploma TAS (https://youtu.be/-ivGNZs_Mvw ) and investing, frankly, too much time in making a gen 2 version (https://youtu.be/u0KJD0IgNEw ), I've always thought about what a FRLG version would look like. Sadly, it doesn't seem possible to make atm because mgbahawklink isn't out yet (although I heard someone named alyosha made linking in a different emulator so maybe?), but it's still fun to think about the possibilities. So I did some rough routing and here's what I've come up with: FR route: https://pastebin.com/n5n2PRh6 LG route: https://pastebin.com/nN5Sg5eJ Here's some key takeaways: -Only one of the games needs to complete the e4 + champ, as the only kanto poke exclusive to the post game is Mewtwo. FR will be tasked with that, as I want the game that doesn't do the e4 + champ to get Porygon, and Porygon is much cheaper in LG than FR. As such, the entire tas will be bottlenecked by FR. -LG will be tasked with dashing to Celadon City, getting Eevee, trading it (and its starter, Charmander) to FR, and resetting. This is notably similar to what Mr.Wint did. The one difference is that this technically isn't required as we can breed Eevee for the third required Eevee. However, the problem is that breeding for Eevee is SLOOOOOOOOW. It's bad enough that it requires a wooping 35 egg cycles, but breeding isn't unlocked until the post game. This massive timesink in combination with how the run is bottlenecked by FR means that LG rushing to get Eevee and trading it away will not cost nearly as much time as FR breeding. -LG will rush to get Eevee by using Clefable, the fastest poke to do all of the fights up to Celadon. Although this means less exp for Charmander, Charmander can easily get the necessary exp later by doing fights on LG's second playthrough. It is also imperative for LG to get and trade Eevee ASAP, as FR needs to not evolve Squirtle until it trades it to LG (which will only be possible after LG resets). Squirtle can get through "just fine" unevolved until Surge so ideally, Squirtle is registered to both dexes before that. -Pickup candies are overall much faster than leveling up using weaker pokes. FR will catch Zapdos and use it for various fights, (while keeping an exp share on certain pokes that need exp) namely the elite 4 + champion, as using pokes that actually need exp for those fights is just too slow. However, FR will still use Dragonair for certain fights that it doesn't lose a significant amount of time on (aka, fights where it OHKOs everything, just like Zapdos would). The main concern atm is manipulating Dragonair. Dragonair is only a 1% fishing encounter and can be found at lvls 25-35. Thus, a lvl 35 Dragonair would be a 1/1000 chance. When you combine needing good natures, perfect special (and probably close to perfect attack), and hidden power psychic, it's not unlikely that manipping a lvl 35 Dragonair with all of those requirements is flat out impossible without a significant delay or even a S+Q. There are two ways I can think of to circumvent this issue: -Help menu. If it were possible use it to delay the rng call for IVs/Natures after the encounter + lvl calls are done (or vise versa), it would make manipping this thing a lot easier. However, I honestly doubt it's possible. -Skipping Hidden Power Psychic. Doing so would require a different exp route that results in Dragonair needing more candies. But it might just be needed to actually manip this thing.
Experienced player (674)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1772
Location: Brasil
sorry for the extremely basic question but what pokedex will you complete? national, kanto or some frlg variation of it?
TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Player (102)
Joined: 1/1/2022
Posts: 14
Location: Washington
KusogeMan wrote:
sorry for the extremely basic question but what pokedex will you complete? national, kanto or some frlg variation of it?
Kanto dex, anything else is impossible w/o multiple extra games
Experienced player (674)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1772
Location: Brasil
TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Skilled player (1736)
Joined: 9/17/2009
Posts: 4979
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"
KusogeMan wrote:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1973654509?t=0h59m47s new run by machwing using new glitch ACE for early finish, who's excited? https://docs.google.com/document/d/1atcW9i-FdKdhNsNqysDJbxMMjRJAE8fjF-x5nubXlG0/edit
A gen 3 game that isn't Emerald that has ACE? Nice! When was this discovered?
Emulator Coder, Judge, Experienced player (694)
Joined: 2/26/2020
Posts: 770
Location: California
The discovery was from luckytyphlosion just a couple of days ago. Although in reality, luckytyphlosion more just discovered a way to trigger the same mail glitch that the other gen 3 games had, by abusing Recycle. It can do ACE in FRLG as mail slot 255 ends up being within Pokemon box data (compared to R/S which is just in the middle of map tile data, and so far that corruption is mostly useless). Move ACE was originally intended to be used (as that's been known about since forever), although luckytyphlosion also discovered later on that you can perform ACE by swapping Pokemon in the PC box menu (tl;dr glitch species name has funny buffer overflow that corrupts a function pointer that's called when swapping Pokemon).
merrp
She/Her
Player (20)
Joined: 7/31/2019
Posts: 56
KusogeMan wrote:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1973654509?t=0h59m47s new run by machwing using new glitch ACE for early finish, who's excited? https://docs.google.com/document/d/1atcW9i-FdKdhNsNqysDJbxMMjRJAE8fjF-x5nubXlG0/edit
I know I am :) Planning to pick this up this weekend or at least start doing initial research and seed-searching. For TAS we don't need the in-game trade as a corruption target or for Recycle: my plan is to get Clefairy to level 29 for Metronome -> Recycle using normal leveling and a small army of Meowth for Pickup strats (you need 7 pokemon anyway unless you do the double battle glitch multiple times which idk will save time). Clefairy can also be the corruption target and I'll be able to manip one that can be corrupted into one of the glitch species that can trigger grab ace, so no need for EV counting, you're just making a run straight to Celadon for mail. Box name payload will probably be custom and input-based like Emerald's, because the credits are a good place to do postgame input and I definitely want to include some this time!
Post subject: Any% Glitched
merrp
She/Her
Player (20)
Joined: 7/31/2019
Posts: 56
Link to video Initial WIP for Any% glitched. Looking to get feedback on anything that I missed or can improve, besides what I already know has to change. The way this works is, I start out looking for Clefairy encounters ~70k RNG cycles into the run, for all 2^16 possible RNG seeds. This is the rarest event I have to manip so I figured it would be nice to narrow the pool as much as possible to start. Some constraints on this Clefairy:
  • It has to have Lonely or Naughty nature
  • 31 speed IVs, and 30-31 Attack IVs
  • 2-31 Sp. Attack IVs, for some Water Pulse KOs late in the run
  • Good HP, Defense, Sp. Defense IVs don't hurt; With better ones than I got I can take slightly more damage from the Mt. Moon trainers.
Then I take all of those TIDs and filter for a pretty standard Squirtle I think:
  • Mild or Rash nature
  • 13-31 Attack IVs
  • 31 Sp. Attack IVs
  • 14-31 Speed IVs
Then I take all those Squirtle and test Easy Chat word combinations that, combined with the TID and SIDs, can turn Squirtle into a glitch species capable of causing ACE later. I was left with a list of about 23 TID seeds that work, so I just picked the first one I could get. This will change in the next iteration because I'm going to grab the Magikarp from the salesman in the Route 4 Poke Center, and that will increase the target cycle for Clefairy. I also have to track Squirtle's friendship throughout the run, as certain values won't work for any combination of words, that's not too bad really. The way the actual glitch works, and the reason for using Clefairy, is as follows:
  1. Meowth consumes a berry (acquired via Pickup). The actual berry doesn't matter, it can be a status berry, HP, etc.
  2. Clefairy, holding mail, is switched into the same slot.
  3. Farfetch'd uses Knock Off on Clefairy. This removes its mail, but normally it would just be restored at the end of the battle.
  4. Clefairy uses Metronome -> Recycle, recycling the berry that Meowth consumed in the same slot (item usage data like this is tracked per battle position.
  5. Now Clefairy no longer has mail, but mail slot 0 is permanently filled.
  6. Giving mail to the rest of the party, when we give mail to what would be the seventh mail slot, we end up editing Box 3, Slot 1 of the PC!
  7. Deposit Squirtle and corrupt it with specially-chosen words, turning it into a glitch species with a really long name.
  8. When swapping, its glitch name will overwrite the function called to finish the swap, and this points into storage data.
  9. Slide through to box names and ACE
Huge thanks to luckytyphlosion (for discovering this Recycle interaction), gifvex, and BluMagma for their help in working out all of this. So, how to improve this (there's a lot; but redoing it now that I have a draft won't take long):
  • Picking up Magikarp from the salesman is faster than catching a pokemon, with the added bonus of letting me access faster RNG advances due to the extra cycle incurred every frame after entering a Pokemon Center.
  • I don't need to teach Clefairy Doubleslap; I originally intended to use it to KO the Mt. Moon trainers quicker, but it didn't save time.
  • Better defensive stats on Clefairy means I have more damage leeway versus Misty and the bridge rival.
  • Faster RNG advances means less real time waiting for an Abra encounter frame.
  • Most level 14-16 Meowth can survive an Ember from Ninetales or Rapidash, get burned, cure the burn via Rawst Berry, and be KOed by the other enemy's Ember. This saves a turn.
  • I forgot that you can run in all parts of the Underground Path lol.
  • It's possible switching to Fast speed text could be faster:
    • Upsides: Still investigating it, but I've heard that Mid speed text loses 1 frame per textbox. As to how many frames I actually lose over this run, I'm not sure.
    • Downside: Complex battle manips are more difficult and costly. In this run there's a bunch of places I want to manip the enemy's move and my own separately by slowing down or speeding up text; I can't do that with Fast text. Help menu costs about 18 frames to open and close for that, so I'm not sure which is faster overall
  • Gifvex discovered that using multiple mail word entries, you can actually create a pokemon in the empty slot of Box 3 Slot 1, give it a Super Repel, swap its moves, and acquire a glitch species. This would mean I don't have to catch a seventh pokemon, but it might not be faster than using Squirtle, I will have to test it.
  • Faster RNG advances from entering a Poke Center means less time to wait for the RNG to land on Recycle and the KO move for the double battle.
  • It also means way easier pickup manips for the 3 Rare Candies I need to get Farfetch'd to level 21.
  • luckytyphlosion helped me optimize the staged ASM payload that I enter, saving some frames.
  • The only other Recycle user is the ingame trade Mr. Mime, Mimien, who is all-around better to use than Clefairy, but takes 2 minutes to go and get it, so I'm not sure if it will be faster.
With all of this implemented soon, I expect this could save about a minute or maybe more. I'll be doing some postgame input as well via the ACE payload, since I wasn't able to publish it for Emerald. Hopefully this explanation is helpful and this WIP isn't too suboptimal, but let me know ! Thanks :)
Editor, Expert player (2071)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
merrp wrote:
  • It's possible switching to Fast speed text could be faster:
    • Upsides: Still investigating it, but I've heard that Mid speed text loses 1 frame per textbox. As to how many frames I actually lose over this run, I'm not sure.
    • Downside: Complex battle manips are more difficult and costly. In this run there's a bunch of places I want to manip the enemy's move and my own separately by slowing down or speeding up text; I can't do that with Fast text. Help menu costs about 18 frames to open and close for that, so I'm not sure which is faster overall
I remember that mkdasher for the current TAS used Fast speed text, with the downside not being bad enough to stay with Normal. One of the explanations is that, once faster RNG advances are accessed by entering a Pokecenter, moving the cursor around the move select screen in battle manipulates the RNG advance. Of course, in the current TAS, the opponent's move hardly ever comes into play due to how often everything is OHKO, so I'm not sure regarding your current plan.
Skilled player (1736)
Joined: 9/17/2009
Posts: 4979
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"
I almost forgot. Assuming no use of ACE, can this glitch save time for the round 2 of elite four? Can you corrupt pokemon into your PC to count as 60 Pokemon for the national dex? Or corrupt some flag, all without ACE?
Emulator Coder, Judge, Experienced player (694)
Joined: 2/26/2020
Posts: 770
Location: California
If you want to apply the same full completion rules to Round 2, that itself would prohibit corrupting Pokedex/event flags (although I don't think that's possible anyways in this context?) Corrupting Pokemon in the PC would not register them in the Pokedex, you actually have to "obtain" the Pokemon. The best you can do in this regard is create new Pokemon as eggs, then hatch those eggs, which requires a minimum of one egg cycle per egg, so around 26 seconds of biking per egg? And that's on top of the time you're mucking around trying to create the egg and the egg hatching animation. Also keep in mind you have to limit this to the Kanto dex, while you technically can fill entries in the national dex, these entries are hidden and don't count for the 60 mons needed to actually unlock the national dex. At which point catching most of the mons would just be faster. There's probably more benefit in using glitch move names to trigger instant win conditions if anything, or using them to catch an opposing trainer's first Pokemon. There is also the limited use-case of creating a Silph Scope to skip Rocket Game Corner, and maybe you can go generate some HMs? Although this is more of an exception, as most key items used to progress actually do not check if the item is present in bag, rather they just check an event flag that's set at the normal event which you obtain said key item (so no you can't go to Sevii Islands early nor skip any of the Sevii Island sidequest stuff).
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