Player (197)
Joined: 8/10/2013
Posts: 161
I've been working on routing this basically since August of 2014, so that when I start the real thing, I have everything all planned out, which I do, down to the exact egg and feather pickups. I also had to wait for a working emulator to be done, since the first backflip in SM doesn't work correctly on Mupen. Some of the route changes were found by others as well. Kaptainkohl is going to start making his own Banjo Tooie any% TAS, though not intended for submission here, mostly for swag like Gymnast did with his Wind Waker TAS. I've been showing my progress to other Banjo runners too, so they can check my WIPs. The route and progress wouldn't be where it is without their help so I am very grateful. Thankfully after MM, there's really nothing in TTC that I feel will trip me up. The only things I need to manipulate are blubber so I can grab the jiggy in the cutscene, and the blue jinjo at the start so I can collect it without actually pressing B to dive down into the water. Hopefully I can get that done within the next couple of weeks after I finish MM.
Projects: Banjo-Kazooie Any% with FFM
Joined: 8/1/2006
Posts: 428
Hyperresonance wrote:
Thankfully after MM, there's really nothing in TTC that I feel will trip me up. The only things I need to manipulate are blubber so I can grab the jiggy in the cutscene, and the blue jinjo at the start so I can collect it without actually pressing B to dive down into the water.
In case the manipulation doesn't work, you also have the option of a quickdive (A+Z at the surface)
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Player (197)
Joined: 8/10/2013
Posts: 161
I actually didn't know you could get that jinjo with the surface quickdive, that's neat. I redid the end of Mumbo's, but only managed to save one second. It's at least something, and I'm moving on now. Tonight I plan on at least finishing the lair movement up to entering TTC.
Projects: Banjo-Kazooie Any% with FFM
Joined: 8/1/2006
Posts: 428
Hyperresonance wrote:
I actually didn't know you could get that jinjo with the surface quickdive, that's neat.
Given that I don't have a working TAS environment, it's possible I'm mis-remembering.
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Player (197)
Joined: 8/10/2013
Posts: 161
I tested and you were right, you can definitely surface quickdive for that jinjo. Progressing through the lair right now, in the TTC puzzle room. The MM witch switch jiggy took me a little while to do but it looks solid.
Projects: Banjo-Kazooie Any% with FFM
Player (197)
Joined: 8/10/2013
Posts: 161
So while messing around on console, I discovered a way to get the blue jinjo underwater without pressing B and without it waving, but I am having a hard time getting it consistent and figuring out exactly how it works. First, I have done up to entering TTC and I have collected the first 4 notes in this order: bottom left, top left, top right, bottom right. From here, if you jump to the right off the dock and hold left, you can get "caught" on the fence/edge and sometimes you will sink deeper in the water than you normally would, collecting the jinjo in the process. In slowdown I have no problem getting Banjo stuck but I haven't been able to get him to sink deep enough. On console usually I can get it within 10-20 tries but it's hard to tell exactly what specific collision causes the deep sinking. If anyone could help me look into it, that would be much appreciated. I'll post my stuff here https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zh7kztmv5dpbxyv/AAAowNh1eSuZ2eV-59RMheYaa?dl=0 so anyone can try it. EDIT: Unfortunately after testing done by some Banjo runners on bizhawk, we concluded that this trick does not work on emulator due to some sort of physics phenomenon that only seems to exist on console. A BK runner, Benjacastellon, found a different way to produce what I found by fluttering against the fence, and it is relatively consistent now on console. We tried the same thing on emulator for hours to no avail. Additionally, it is not worth it to wait for the jinjo to wave. The jinjo cannot wave unless it is standing still, and because it follows Banjo in a circle as you collect the notes on the dock, it will not wave in time for this strategy to be faster. Back to the original way to collect the jinjo!
Projects: Banjo-Kazooie Any% with FFM
Player (210)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
Should've posted this a while ago: Since speed oscillates every two frames between a high and a low value, it looks like it is possible to force the high value two frames in a row by pausing. This buys some extra pixels on the CC Puzzle Early - No Shock pad attempt, but I wasn't able to make it work with brief testing. It's probably slightly more theoretically possible now. Also regarding Comicalflop's earlier points: - The 10th jiggy has an extra animation so it take a lot longer. - Hyper's explanation of speed is probably correct. Speed definitely does not care whether you are skidding or jumping. Thus the sprite contortion might be the best explanation.
Player (197)
Joined: 8/10/2013
Posts: 161
http://www.twitch.tv/hyperresonance92/v/20751988 Progress :) Don't feel like uploading but this should suffice Enjoy!
Projects: Banjo-Kazooie Any% with FFM
Joined: 2/28/2012
Posts: 160
Location: Philadelphia
Very nice progress!
Former player
Joined: 4/18/2015
Posts: 168
Location: Canada
That was great! :) I really liked the deathwarp used at the end and you did some really cool jiggy dance cancelling. Really entertaining overall! Can't wait to see how CC is going to look.
Player (197)
Joined: 8/10/2013
Posts: 161
http://www.twitch.tv/hyperresonance92/v/22951228 More progress, done up through the end of Clanker's. Hope I made a usually boring level enjoyable!
Projects: Banjo-Kazooie Any% with FFM
Tompa
Any
Editor, Expert player (2213)
Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1940
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
Well done! Like 50 seconds faster than the old TAS, you're crushing it!
Joined: 8/1/2006
Posts: 428
That honeycomb grab was a very nice use of an air backflip. --- IIRC one of the slopes around the edge of the purple jinjo pit allows an egg dive, which would save some time.
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Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Is there any way these WIPs can be uploaded to Youtube as well? I can't get Twitch to play any of the movies
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Player (197)
Joined: 8/10/2013
Posts: 161
@jsmith I will try redo that room with an egg dive to see if it's faster. I had thought about that but neglected to try it for some reason. @comicalflop Absolutely. I can directly port the twitch highlights to my youtube channel later tonight when I get home from work. EDIT: I actually was able to upload them at work right now, they should be up shortly: TTC: Link to video CC: Link to video I should also mention that in Clanker's, without quickclimbing (or pole zipping, whichever you prefer), it might not have been possible to make the bolt cycle that I did (saving 7~ seconds), so thanks to JSmith for that idea from a long time ago to make sub 8 game time possible in this level :)
Projects: Banjo-Kazooie Any% with FFM
Samsara
She/They
Senior Judge, Site Admin, Expert player (2098)
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2821
Location: Northern California
For anyone interested and too lazy to check the published run, here are Sami's in-game times, followed by the current times of this TAS: MM - 5:08 (4:21, 47 seconds faster) TTC - 7:01 (6:15, 46 seconds faster) CC - 8:45 (7:54, 51 seconds faster) BS - 12:23 (11:43, 40 seconds faster) GV - 10:03 (9:31, 32 seconds faster) MMM - 9:22 (8:28, 54 seconds faster) Rest of Sami's times for future comparison: FP - 12:04 RBB - 9:37 CCW - 18:04
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family. Now infrequently posting on Bluesky
warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Player (197)
Joined: 8/10/2013
Posts: 161
Thanks Samsara :) I tested the egg dive strat in the purple jinjo room and it was around 3/4 of a second slower. Probably just because you have to go out of your way to do the dive deep enough for it to matter. I also tried getting into talon trot by the first note and then quickdiving which was faster than egg diving but still slightly slower than just rolling directly into the water. You simply don't get enough depth for it to be worth it.
Projects: Banjo-Kazooie Any% with FFM
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Thanks for the uploads, it's really enjoyable to see how far the optimization for this game has gone. Its also a relief to see my suggestions from 5ish years ago finally implemented :-) Speaking of which, years ago I first tested the pole-zipping on the palm trees in TTC, did you try to use the zip there? I saw you climb the trees slowly in your WIP. IIRC even jumping and using Z to grab the pole/tree again, even without zipping, is still faster than just slow climbing.
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Player (197)
Joined: 8/10/2013
Posts: 161
To be honest I actually didn't try it when I was in the middle of TASing TTC, but I just went back to retry that on the first tree and it was 2 frames slower to use A + Z. This is one of those weird situational tricks where the "pole" you're climbing has to be long enough and sometimes it's only faster to use it once, like I did on the pole in the lair. I also realized that there isn't a concrete pattern to it and sometimes you have to space your zips apart more like I did in Clanker's. I just tested on the green jinjo in TTC that I could have saved a frame on the pole by better zipping. Just one of those things you learn and improve upon the more you TAS. Also I wasn't sure who actually "found" pole zipping. I thought it was either JSmith or you Comic but either way its one of my favorite little tricks and it ended up saving a lot more time than I thought so far. EDIT: found on page 9 where JSmith suggested it :P
Projects: Banjo-Kazooie Any% with FFM
Joined: 12/1/2008
Posts: 32
Hey HyperResonance, Good effort so far, really impressed at the improvements from Sami's original run. Quick question - with Jiggy 7 on TTC inside Nippers shell, was it not possible to get hit by the crabs into the Jiggy and saving the Jiggy dance? Looks like it could save a few seconds if it's possible. - Airman
Of course we graduated cock, beer? ~ Joseph "Airman" Cooper from BASEketball.
Player (197)
Joined: 8/10/2013
Posts: 161
Unfortunately Jiggy damage cancelling doesn't work that way. You have to actually take damage on the same frame you touch the jiggy, so the damage cancel is not possible there. I also tried to land without getting hit by the crab but it wasn't possible with the movement that I used. The only reason the jiggy cancel works at the end of the level like that is because I died on the black crab. I definitely plan to make a lengthy description for the run submission because there are a LOT of tricks like that to be explained! I don't want people to be confused.
Projects: Banjo-Kazooie Any% with FFM
Joined: 12/1/2008
Posts: 32
Ah, righto that explains it. Well, I'm really glad you have put so much attention to detail in this I am looking forward to detailed explanation at the end! Thanks, -Airman
Of course we graduated cock, beer? ~ Joseph "Airman" Cooper from BASEketball.
Player (197)
Joined: 8/10/2013
Posts: 161
Just a little update. I am in BGS now, approaching the egg. The lair took quite a while because the movement is all strange stuff and was hard to optimize, and I started a new job this week which made me way too tired to work on this.
Projects: Banjo-Kazooie Any% with FFM
Active player (355)
Joined: 1/16/2008
Posts: 358
Location: The Netherlands
I hope your jobs gets you as enthusiastic as this TAS does :)
TASes: [URL=http://tasvideos.org/Movies-298up-Obs.html]Mr. Nutz (SNES), Young Merlin 100% (SNES), Animaniacs 100% (SNES)[/URL]
Player (197)
Joined: 8/10/2013
Posts: 161
Thanks! Yeah it's my first job after college so it's pretty exciting. So far in Bubblegloop I am up to the boots on top of the giant alligator. I progressed quickly through the timer switch section and the huts area because I knew exactly what movement to do, though flibbits took me a little while. This new area I am in I am unsure what movement is best so I have to try a few things out.
Projects: Banjo-Kazooie Any% with FFM