Emulator: mupen64 re-recording edition V0.5.0
Graphics plugin: glN64 v0.4.1
Sound plugin: Jabo's DirectSound 1.6
Input plugin: TAS Input Plugin 0.6 (make sure mempack is turned on, or the movie will not synch)
RSP plugin: RSP emulation Plugin
Note: If the game does not look correct with the gln video plugin, use Direct64. Not all video cards work correctly with gln.
Note: Loading the run from a savestate will result in a desynch during the Twinrova battle. The cause of this is unknown.

Comments

This run aims to complete all dungeons/temples/Ganon trials as quickly as possible. I originally had the idea of TASing this run to see what kind of time could be achieved in an all temples/trials run which implements the recently discovered "TAS-only" tricks that wouldn't be seen in a modern any% run. One key element in this run is the use of sidehopping over backwalking, which has been proven faster in most cases. Supersliding is also one method of travel used over the current published run and is the fastest form of travel over long distances. The initial goal was to achieve sub-3:30, but with more tricks being discovered throughout the run I was able to achieve sub-3:00. A lot of hard work was put into this project, so overall, I'm very happy with the outcome of this run.

Common tricks and glitches used throughout the run

Superflipping

  • By shielding damage during a roll you can achieve a much longer distance with a precisely-timed backflip.

Supersliding

  • By rolling into a bomb and grabbing it/shielding the explosion, you can slide at a very fast speed. This is the fastest method of travel over long distances.

Infinite Sword Glitch

  • Interacting with an object while crouchstabbing will cause the sword to attack infinitely.

Bomb(chu) Hovering

  • If an explosive (or any damage) is shielded after a backflip/sidehop while the Infinite Sword Glitch is activated, you can gain distances in the air.
Note: Sidehopping as an adult is still fastest in most cases. Although the maximum speed of backwalking as an adult is faster than sidehopping, the slow acceleration of backwalking makes sidehopping faster in almost every case.

General Notes on the Run

Rupee Route

  • The main improvement over the previous rupee route is manipulating rupees from the plants outside of the sword maze. This allowed for a more direct path to the shop.

Inside the Deku Tree

  • A skulltulla boost through the vine wall made it possible to skip the first basement level and fall down to the room right before Queen Gohma. This trick skipped about half of the Deku Tree.

Spirit Temple as a Child

  • Superflips were used off of the enemies in the bridge room which skipped having to lower the bridge.

Dodongo's Cavern

  • Using bombchus allows for being able to complete Dodongo's Cavern without the Goron Bracelet. This has been proven faster than getting the Silver Gauntlets from the Spirit Temple in order to pick up bomb flowers.
  • A bombchu superflip was used instead of bombchu hovering to get the bombs early. This saved about 15 seconds.
  • Bomb hovering was used to skip to the block early and skip a large portion of the dungeon.

On the way to Hyrule Castle

  • A bottle is required for later in the game, and the cucco collecting is the fastest way to obtain one. Lots of manipulation was used on the cuccos to do this optimally.
  • A superslide was used to skip the owl outside of Kakariko instead of the standard slingshot/stick trick. This also allowed for a quick, straight path to the Market.
  • Zelda's Lullaby was learned at Hyrule Castle because it was required to complete most of the temples.

Pre- Inside Jabu Jabu's Belly

  • Picking up a cucco at Zora's River made it possible to skip playing Zelda's Lullaby at the waterfall.
  • By using a superflip off of a bombchu, it is possible to skip bomb hovering over King Zora. This trick saves about 20 seconds.
Note: A faster strategy was recently discovered in Zora's River that involved superflipping past the waterfall. This would save time by not needing to carry the cucco.

Inside Jabu Jabu's Belly

Note: The main path through the dungeon remained the same as the currently-published run, but a couple of tricks were used which resulted in it being much faster.
  • A superflip was used in the elevator room instead of using bombchus/bomb hovering. This saved a couple of seconds in the room, and also allowed for use of those explosives elsewhere.
  • In the room before Barinade, a bombchu was placed precisely to quickly activate the switch without having to climb the wall.

Pre- Temple of Time

  • After warping to the Desert Collosus, I plant the bean for use later in the game and use a deathwarp to return to Kokiri Forest.

Pre- Shadow Temple

  • The newly discovered superslide warp glitch was used to enter the Shadow Temple. With the infinite sword glitch activated, it was made possible to reach the graveyard boundaries and enter the temple.

Shadow Temple

  • The Dead Hand was quickly defeated. This had to do with what frame he was last hit on. Had it been any earlier or later, he would've began a second cycle.
  • Instead of equipping the Hover Boots to clear the void, a bomb damage boost was used, which saved pausing twice to equip/unequip the Hover Boots.
  • A jumpslash through the fence skipped the majority of the Shadow Temple. This method is faster than using a superslide because it avoided pausing twice.
Note: Implementing a superflip would have saved a second or two over the damage boost.

Forest Temple

  • Instead of using a damage boost to skip the block room, it was possible, with precise angling, to use only the Hover Boots. This was much faster than the previous method, as it skipped two pause screens and a bomb.
  • A recently-discovered method to skip the Boss Key was used to reach Phantom Ganon without entering the basement or defeating any Poes. A superflip was implemented here to enter the boss room's loading zone, instead of the original superslide hover, which overall, saved two pauses.

Pre- Fire Temple

  • A much faster method to climb Death Mountain was used, instead of the old method of climbing the wall or going around the back side of the mountain. This saved around 15 seconds.
  • The Fairy Fountain is visited before the Fire Temple, because it is faster than going out of the way as a child to get to it, and it was on the way to the Fire Temple, anyway.
  • A superflip was used to just barely clear the lava pit in Death Mountain Crater. This saved two pauses over the other method for skipping the Beloro of Fire, which involved either a rock boost or a superslide hover.

Fire Temple

  • An issue in the Fire Temple was being able to get enough hearts when/where to be able to complete each room successfully without the Fire Tunic. Manipulating a bat to drop hearts in the lobby allowed the following room to barely be completed.
  • In the boulder maze, bomb hovering was used to reach the level above. This trick allowed for skipping multiple keys and rooms.
  • After obtaining the megaton hammer, it was possible to jump down and hit the switch directly with a precise time/angle. This was faster than jumping across to hit the switch, and it also looks much cooler.
  • By shooting Volvagia with just enough arrows, it was possible to quickly defeat Volvagia without the time running out due to not having the Fire Tunic. After the fight, the last bit of health was lost 6 frames before the portal cut scene activated. This allowed for a very fast deathwarp after the Fire Temple, as all health was gone upon being teleported back to Death Mountain Crater.

Pre-Water Temple

  • A lot of methods were considered to enter the Water Temple without the Iron Boots. The original hookshot/ocarina method ended up being the fastest.

Water Temple

  • Even though it was assumed possible to bomb hover through the boss door, a method was never actually discovered. After a lot of testing, a method was found, which saved around 90% of the temple. The method was to use short enough bomb hovers with the hover boots on, to stay close enough to the door to be able to jumpslash through it.

Pre-Spirit Temple

  • Getting the Fire Arrows after the Water Temple was necessary for completing the Forest and Shadow Ganon Trials. This was a much faster route than getting Din's Fire, and also saved a lot of time in the trials.
  • The bean planted in Desert Collosus as a child was used to go straight to the mirror shield. With a specifically-angled superslide, and correct timing of removing the Hover Boots, it was possible to land right on the top of the last seam.

Spirit Temple

  • Intensive manipulation was used during the Koume/Kotake battle, which forced one of them to stay in position for the entire duration of the first part of the battle. This allowed for her to continue attacking at the fastest possible rate while the other one could continue being attacked.
  • During the boss fight, bombs were used to slowly drain health. A final bomb is used while entering the portal to lose the last bit of health and use a deathwarp, just like the one after the Fire Temple.

Ganon's Castle

Note: Although there are a lot of pauses in the trials, it is still the minimum number of required pauses.
  • A superslide hover from the Torch Slug on the far platform in the Fire Trial allowed me to get to the exit in a much faster time. This allowed me to skip having to get a fairy to survive without the Fire Tunic.
  • During the castle escape some areas are very laggy but the amount of lag was minimized by various inputs such as holding Z and/or standing still.
  • By supersliding into the Ganon cut scene, the Master Sword was still useable. With the Master Sword, the first cycle is completable in three hits.

With thanks to...

Swordless Link, for constantly watching WIPs and looking for improvements. Also, for being a huge inspiration to do this run in the first place.

Any glitch-finders that helped find glitches used throughout the run.


mmbossman: Despite it's length, this run has received some very positive feedback from the viewers, and looks to be well done. The goals seem to be a little arbitrary, but they were discussed beforehand in the Ocarina of Time discussion thread, and they are easy enough to define, so I believe they warrant a new category.
However, the main question that has popped up is whether this should obsolete Guanobowl's run. After reviewing the thread a couple of times, and asking for various opinions on IRC, I still cannot find a significantly convincing argument to promote obsoletion. This run has entirely different goals than an 'any%' completion, and while it does contain an amount of similar material to the published run, there are enough differences present to warrant publication alongside the current run. Many of the arguments have centered around excuses to try and circumvent our current rule that prevents movies from being "unpublished", which I do not support.
Perhaps this decision will provide motivation to make a true 'any%' run update sooner rather than later. As for this run, I'm accepting it as an new "All temples and trials" category, to be published alongside the current any% run.

Bisqwit: Encoding… (It will take several days.) I'm not hereby deciding the obsoletion matter, though.


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Banned User
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mmbossman wrote:
You act like you're the first one to suggest unpublication. You're not. It's been brought up multiple times before, and been shot down before, by the administrator of the site. I, for one, am actually in favor of it for various games, but unless you can convince Bisqwit that it should be a viable option, you're just reviving old arguments.
You are missing the point, just for the sake of argumentation. This wouldn't be a pure unpublication. This submission would replace the existing video. That's it. We are replacing a published run with another one. The only thing is that in the future, when someone makes an acceptable any% run, it will not obsolete this submission.
I especially dislike this line: I disagree. Just because one video is unpublished will *not* open any can of worms. If someone requests unpublishing something else "because that Zelda run was also unpublished" you simply answer to him "that was an exception", and if he protests, just ignore him. We should ignore him, unless of course, it's you? And if I were to ignore you, you'd just start complaining about the Nazi regime here? Great system there, Warp.
Right. I am requesting the unpublication of a video because videos have been unpublished in the past, and thus I should be ignored. Yes, that's exactly what happened here. Good thing you are not arguing just for the sake of arguing.
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Warp wrote:
This wouldn't be a pure unpublication. This submission would replace the existing video. That's it. We are replacing a published run with another one.
To avoid further argumentation, I'd like to ask how this suggestion above is any different than a simple obsoletion?
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mmbossman wrote:
Warp wrote:
This wouldn't be a pure unpublication. This submission would replace the existing video. That's it. We are replacing a published run with another one.
To avoid further argumentation, I'd like to ask how this suggestion above is any different than a simple obsoletion?
As I said in my original suggestion, *in practice* it would indeed be an obsoletion. (Its just that a future any% would not obsolete this run because it's submitted under a different category.) I believe it's not even the first time when a movie has been obsoleted by another using a different category.
Player (121)
Joined: 2/11/2007
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Maybe just note in Guano's that it's technically deprecated at this point. The skips in that run, outdated though they are, do provide a significantly different viewing experience.
I make a comic with no image files and you should read it. While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free. -Eugene Debs
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alden wrote:
Maybe just note in Guano's that it's technically deprecated at this point. The skips in that run, outdated though they are, do provide a significantly different viewing experience.
Here. AKA decided that was wrong, so he removed such notes… twice. Whatever, I've given up on trying to reason with him. That run is deprecated, it surprises zero OoT experts since by this point it can be beat twice faster even in realtime, and thus it should be obsoleted ASAP, even if it takes another category to do that. Remind me, were we looking for reasons to obsolete it, or for reasons not to obsolete it?
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 10/15/2007
Posts: 685
Warp wrote:
superjupi wrote:
It's been stated clearly that some games really aren't suited to TASing, just due to the fact that they're incredibly boring to watch.
A perfect example of where the "should this movie be published?" question applies perfectly. The answer is: No, it should not be published because it's a very bad game choice.
And would the decision of whether or not the game is a bad choice be founded on..... entertainment?
Warp wrote:
If the only question is, "should this be published?" then you could supply any reason you wanted for publication. If you thought a run should be published because the author had the A button depressed for 20976 frames, which can be parsed as your birthday, you could cite that as your reason.
You are joking, right? That's fine, but I was being serious.
No, I was being serious, as well. You made the argument that people will flip the current poll question around to suit their needs at the time, and I'm saying that changing the poll question to, "should this be published?" would only be easier to abuse in that regard.
Kirby said so, so it must be true. ( >'.')>
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And what percentage of the audience can be considered "OoT experts"? Probably higher than that of the general population, but still low I believe. And yes, I remember the there-and-gone-again note, just wanted to throw it out there again :) It should be obsoleted ASAP but by a legitimate replacement. Edit: replying to moozooh
I make a comic with no image files and you should read it. While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free. -Eugene Debs
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alden wrote:
And what percentage of the audience can be considered "OoT experts"? Probably higher than that of the general population, but still low I believe.
Check the amount of pages on SDA's Zelda topics, and the amount of views on any given OoT trick uploaded on YouTube. The crowd following OoT tricking/sequence breaking is huge, and there's a high chance any interested user would check some of the more popular recently uploaded YT videos before watching Guano's run. The exact reason why it should be obsoleted now is that OoT is a very popular game. The published run aims for speed (as such, it has to beat unassisted records in the comparable categories), yet it is dramatically outperformed by newly discovered knowledge, thus lowering the expectations from the site in general ("meh, I've seen better on YouTube" and so on). So far the only reason it hasn't been obsoleted is that there hasn't been a worthy replacement, but now there is. I'd say it wouldn't be so important with a game like, say, Jaws, which is rather obscure.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
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That should just be motivation for a new any% to be finished. And a note to be added. Despite the perception of a "huge" OoT audience, I would still argue that the majority of the audience of this site is not, and would appreciate seeing the old one.
I make a comic with no image files and you should read it. While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free. -Eugene Debs
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alden wrote:
That should just be motivation for a new any% to be finished. And a note to be added.
Yeah, we've seen how well both have worked so far. >_>
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Mitjitsu
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My motivation isn't exactly to "take another run down". It's more motivating to do a game or category that hasn't been done yet, than it is to obselete something. Still, thats no excuse to rush production and get it finished ASAP, we've already seen the dire consequences of that.
Joined: 7/1/2008
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Satyrium wrote:
Optimal =/= Entertaining.
i generally derive entertainment from seeing things done precisely. though i do agree that entertainment is far too subjective a criteria, optimization alone is not a good way to judge either. movies need a balance of the two, i guess. Moozooh: the rule about beating existing times really only applies to times that existed at the time of publication, does it not? when Guano's run was published, it was the fastest of it's kind. just because it can be improved doesn't mean it should be taken down asap.
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AKA wrote:
My motivation isn't exactly to "take another run down". It's more motivating to do a game or category that hasn't been done yet, than it is to obselete something. Still, thats no excuse to rush pruduction and get it finished ASAP, we've already seen the dire consequences of that already.
I guess I meant "finish it well as soon as possible" which is different than just rushing. My point still stands that deleting the old movie doesn't really solve anything and is effectively lowering the net entertainment opportunities for the majority of people. OK I'll stop going on about this :)
I make a comic with no image files and you should read it. While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free. -Eugene Debs
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Satoryu wrote:
Moozooh: the rule about beating existing times really only applies to times that existed at the time of publication, does it not? when Guano's run was published, it was the fastest of it's kind. just because it can be improved doesn't mean it should be taken down asap.
It's not so much in the context of a rule by this point, as it is in the context of a TAS being KO'd by an unassisted run competing under the same rules, and staying like that for years. This is something that shouldn't happen. Moreover, it's not like the published any% is flawless in regards other than route/major glitching; it has its own share of all kinds of other inaccuracies as well. If you know/remember, it was originally meant to be a test run, which ended up being submitted and published due to overwhelming feedback. In retrospect, I can't tell that has been a bad decision, but the fact that it's so outdated and still published in the any% category definitely doesn't benefit the site in any way. Popular games need their content refreshed, and it's a good idea for a cutting-edge site like TASVideos to stay up to date with that.
alden wrote:
My point still stands that deleting the old movie doesn't really solve anything and is effectively lowering the net entertainment opportunities for the majority of people.
Is it? Consider that no-one would bother downloading it via BitTorrent at this point, granted it's been uploaded to every possible video hosting service, and that's about the only advantage its published status has now for those who are lazy or ignorant enough to not know about/search for faster alternatives. There are all the ways to watch it for those who really want it, but otherwise Bloobiebla's movie has all that + more + better.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Mitjitsu
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moozooh wrote:
Popular games need their content refreshed, and it's a good idea for a cutting-edge site like TASVideos to stay up to date with that.
The reason why there hasn't been an update to the run is because of a steady stream of improvements and discoveries. There's been about 6-7 significant discoveries which have been made over a lengthy period. At least now there is only about 2-3 theoretical improvements left, with only one of them being realistically possible* * That statement will mostly likely turn out to be incorrect :P
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AKA wrote:
At least now there is only about 2-3 theoretical improvements left, with only one of them being realistically possible*
And what are those?
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Anyone else see the irony of saying that the movie is entertaining despite an entire hour of it?
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Yes. Hence why I brought up that point a few pages ago.
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Heh. I guess you did. I sort of lost the point of that paragraph the first time I read it I guess.
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Cpadolf wrote:
AKA wrote:
At least now there is only about 2-3 theoretical improvements left, with only one of them being realistically possible*
And what are those?
The most likely one would be to enter the fishing pond without the scarecrow song. The idea was to use a tektite hover + superflip, simalar to the method used to escape Kokiri. SL, Blooblebla, Me and Kazooie have all tried and failed. The closest anyone got was Blooblebla If it was possible it would save between 1-2 mins The other theoretical improvement would involve beating Ganondorf without light arrows. In order to currently beat him we must have the Shadow and Spirit Medalions (which we can trick the game into we thinking we do) as well as obtaining magic which requires Zelda's lullaby, and sit through a 7 min cutscene to get the light arrows and rainbow bridge cutscene. Skipping the rainbow bridge isn't a problem since you can bomb hover to Ganon's Castle, but it would require detouring at the start of the adult segment in order to get bombs. In order to get bombs we'd need to use RBA. There is also a wild theoretical improvement where if you were to obtain warp songs and manipulate RBA and play a warp song in a specific area you could warp straight to the credits. Sadly these relevant addresses are well out of reach using conventional and known methods and can only be done using a Game Shark.
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From an ambivalent position: A reason to not obsolete Guano's run - It has different goals than this run. Guano's aimed to complete the game the fastest, and did so using *all of the tricks known at the time. (*debatable ad nauseum, at least attempted to catch all of them) A reason to obsolete Guano's run - The Current submission has more similarity to Guano's than any fastest completion run will contain (using all currently known tricks). A fastest possible completion will not attempt a **single level which is present in Guano's run. (**as far as I understand, from watching fastest runs) In short: Different goals, same spirit. Up to the judge to decide which is a factor for obsolescence. Hopefully this is impartial enough to help make the judging decision.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
upthorn
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DarkKobold wrote:
A reason to not obsolete Guano's run - It has different goals than this run. Guano's aimed to complete the game the fastest, and did so using *all of the tricks known at the time.
You forgot that Guano's run has a unique aspect (JXQommentary) which will be lost to new viewers forever when it is obsoleted. Edit: Oh, you said "A reason", not "reasons". And actually weren't trying to be exhaustive. Sorry. Edit2: For what it's worth, if I were a judge, the course of action I would take is to accept this and delay publication until Guano's is obsoleted. Because the goals are different enough from pure fastest completion to merit side-by-side publication, but this run is not different enough from the currently published fastest completion to merit side-by-side. And the TAS length is longer, so that argues against obsoletion. Just my two cents though.
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upthorn wrote:
For what it's worth, if I were a judge, the course of action I would take is to accept this and delay publication until Guano's is obsoleted.
The problem is that the new run that would obsolete Guano's is far from completion. That'd be an incredible amount of time for it to be delayed.
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Maybe you should rush the improvement, assuming you want this run posted that badly.
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AKA wrote:
Cpadolf wrote:
AKA wrote:
At least now there is only about 2-3 theoretical improvements left, with only one of them being realistically possible*
And what are those?
The most likely one would be to enter the fishing pond without the scarecrow song. The idea was to use a tektite hover + superflip, simalar to the method used to escape Kokiri. SL, Blooblebla, Me and Kazooie have all tried and failed. The closest anyone got was Blooblebla If it was possible it would save between 1-2 mins The other theoretical improvement would involve beating Ganondorf without light arrows. In order to currently beat him we must have the Shadow and Spirit Medalions (which we can trick the game into we thinking we do) as well as obtaining magic which requires Zelda's lullaby, and sit through a 7 min cutscene to get the light arrows and rainbow bridge cutscene. Skipping the rainbow bridge isn't a problem since you can bomb hover to Ganon's Castle, but it would require detouring at the start of the adult segment in order to get bombs. In order to get bombs we'd need to use RBA. There is also a wild theoretical improvement where if you were to obtain warp songs and manipulate RBA and play a warp song in a specific area you could warp straight to the credits. Sadly these relevant addresses are well out of reach using conventional and known methods and can only be done using a Game Shark.
Good screenshot!
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