Cool, someone is doing a new TAS.
First off you need to make sure you get a value of 2 in address 0055 after pressing start on the press start screen. This is the value that gives the shortest technodrome spawn and saves lots of time over the other 2 spawns. Approximently 1/4 of the frames should yield the desired value.
Going under half health is good, glad to see you did that, finding the places to take damage without losing much time is the trick. But another thing that can speed up boss fights is using the single suriken, it kills bosses in 1-3 less hit compared to bo hits I believe. I don't think being under half health increases the single suriken damage much if any but I still think it's faster than bo under half health.
Could you post a link to the emulator your using, I get a desync in the room before the first boss.
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Sorry Spider-Waffle, but I have already submitted ;p
Everything you mentioned is done in this submission though I suspect you will find a few ideas after watcing.
Actually, I was hoping to get some feedback from you on the run before I submitted, so free to give suggestions about the submissions. I am open to the possibility of making an improved version should any discoveries be made.
I am using FCEU .16. This version is specifically what I used. That happens to be a patched version that has a macro input function.
That was a pretty good run there. Glad to see the use of jumping to build verticle speed for falling faster and I was excited that used the mech knight's head for boosting like I mentioned.
Could you get suriken for the first level boss fights? Could taking damage in the first sewer let you kill bebop with 1 less hit?
I thought there were some places you could swung a weapon after landing to save frames when there were only 1 or 2 enemies on the screen. On the second floor of the second level, before the ladder, I think it's faster to jump to the platform instead of falling under it, then you can hit the top chainsaw guy with a suriken faster and also fall down sooner and throw a suriken at him while falling so you get to the next chainsaw guy sooner.
For the water part you should switch to leo first and mike last, this way when mike dies after getting missiles it will switch to don without having to do it yourself. When going up or comin down next to a wall you can move over the wall a little bit when you first come to it and you'll be partly in the wall so can you be a little farther forward when you come out of it. For example this should be done after getting the second bomb and coming down. This same concept works on the normal levels of the game and overheard view. End the water with mike at the correct health.
When you enter the first building of level 3 I think you should kill the first enemies instead of getting hit. If you could get tripple or single suriken in the first building it would save time where hit the mech knight. In the next building I wonder if actually killing the fire guy (first hit use suriken) before the ladder would be faster so that you can jump before the fall to the ladder. In the 3rd building I think it would be faster to kill the second fire guy with suriken first hit instead of running into him.
If you suriken the mech knight you could hit it sooner and not have to wait on the head as long. In room 2, at the first ladder down, if you face right when the screen scrolling down then hold left you will clear the platform below and land all the way on the bottom floor first. Then when climbing the ladder up you want to be all the way to the right on the ladder. In room 3 you can jump up the ladder with a mid hight jump if you clip over on the edge, same concept as the jump to get missiles early. For room 6 if you could get the health I would take the spike route. Also in room 6 when you kill the boomerage guy with the downward attack while he was above you, if you start that attack in the air you can slide forward on the ground while doing it. In room 8 you could the mid height jump plus clip to get onto the conveyer built that's moving right towrds the ladder quicker. In the spikey wall room you do the middle level differently than the other two, I would think one way would be faster.
In the last level after doing the warp glitch, on the next doorway you should have jumped before falling. Because of the way bisqwit times these this doesn't save any time but if you kill shredder while he falling he will die much faster and you see the credits sooner.
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Thanks for the comments. I knew that you would spot improvements to my run :)
Spider-Waffle wrote:
Could you get suriken for the first level boss fights? Could taking damage
in the first sewer let you kill bebop with 1 less hit?
In an ideal world I would get shurikens right away and use them for both fights but honestly I couldn't figure out how the random drops work. I would have ran basicbot in a few sections if I could have found the relevant ram address. Maybe I will try again sometime. Shurikens would reduce the bebop and rocksteady fights by 1 hit. Invulnerability time is 48 frames. So that would be a savings 96 minus the cost of manipulating shurkens.
Taking damage for the bebop fight won't help. Bebop has 72hp, don's bo hits for 15 normal and 16 when under health. Either way, it will be 5 hits.
I thought there were some places you could swung a weapon after landing to save frames when there were only 1 or 2 enemies on the screen.
The freakin bo lags so easily. Also, I tested many jumps and often couldn't get anyfurther forward progress by throwing my weapon. I didn't test thoroughly enough to tell if it were due to the type of jump or just lag from throwing the weapon but I could find any difference. Perhaps I should look into this more.
On the second floor of the second level, before the ladder, I think it's faster to jump to the platform instead of falling under it, then you can hit the top chainsaw guy with a suriken faster and also fall down sooner and throw a suriken at him while falling so you get to the next chainsaw guy sooner.
I'm pretty sure you can jump over to that platform.
For the water part you should switch to leo first and mike last, this way when mike dies after getting missiles it will switch to don without having to do it yourself.
Doh! You're right about that one. This would result in about 45 frames of improvement.
When going up or comin down next to a wall you can move over the wall a little bit when you first come to it and you'll be partly in the wall so can you be a little farther forward when you come out of it.
I couldn't get this to happen in the water section :/
For example this should be done after getting the second bomb and coming down. This same concept works on the normal levels of the game and overheard view.
At the 2nd bomb it wouldn't matter as you will hit the wall under that one, negating the savings.
When you enter the first building of level 3 I think you should kill the first enemies instead of getting hit.
This isn't to save time but to get exactly 7 health in order for the flying head to kill me. I couldn't get it down exactly in the water level because everything does 16 damage, meaning I can only have 16 when the level ends. The first enemy of this level does 9 damage which leaves me 7, the exact amount that the flying head does. It's beautiful how perfectly those numbers worked out ;) (note: The kight does 16 damage when he is in his full body, and his fire breath does 12 damage)
If you could get tripple or single suriken in the first building it would save time where hit the mech knight.
Once again, that might be wishful thinking. If I had them, It would save about 50 frames. So as long as I could manipulate them in less than that, it would save time. I guess I need to learn how the drops work.
In the next building I wonder if actually killing the fire guy (first hit use suriken) before the ladder would be faster so that you can jump before the fall to the ladder.
I tried. The invulnerability time of enemies (48 frames) prevents me from killing him without losing time. The time loss is greater than simply jumping over him.
In the 3rd building I think it would be faster to kill the second fire guy with suriken first hit instead of running into him.
Nope, I tested both ways. Taking damage was faster. Also, I need to take damage so that I can kill the next boss faster. Not getting hit here would mean taking one more hit else where (slower) or on the boss, resulting in having to hit him one more time. (Note, shurikens do 18 normal while doing 20 when under %50).
If you suriken the mech knight you could hit it sooner and not have to wait on the head as long.
I assume you mean the one during the rope section. I hit him when I do to manipulate him to be in the right place later. This section has far too many variables so I likely didn't do it optimally. But I did spend a long time on it and the run shows the best scenario of all my versions.
In room 2, at the first ladder down, if you face right when the screen scrolling down then hold left you will clear the platform below and land all the way on the bottom floor first.
Oh wow, you are right. That should save about 40-60 frames. Cool.
Also, this same concept seems to be useful in many other places. I should always face the opposite to the wall in order to be able to be inside the wall a few pixels. This could save a few frames here and there.
Then when climbing the ladder up you want to be all the way to the right on the ladder.
I am pretty sure that I am.
In room 3 you can jump up the ladder with a mid hight jump if you clip over on the edge, same concept as the jump to get missiles early.
Doh, I am aware of the trick but it didn't occur to me to use it here. Oops :(
For room 6 if you could get the health I would take the spike route.
Not sure this would be faster. Lag is also a major issue here.
Also in room 6 when you kill the boomerage guy with the downward attack while he was above you, if you start that attack in the air you can slide forward on the ground while doing it.
Not possible, you will make contact with him if you do this.
In room 8 you could the mid height jump plus clip to get onto the conveyer built that's moving right towrds the ladder quicker.
My thinking was that it didn't matter here but I forgot to consider the fact that the conveyor belt is moving to the right so I could get extra forward momentum. I suspect the extra momentum would be negated somewhat by extra lag though.
In the spikey wall room you do the middle level differently than the other two, I would think one way would be faster.
Impressive, I thought no one would notice that. ;p It was difficult to test but from what I could tell both methods were exactly the same frames.
In the last level after doing the warp glitch, on the next doorway you should have jumped before falling.
*thunk* Another oversight on my part.
Because of the way bisqwit times these this doesn't save any time but if you kill shredder while he falling he will die much faster and you see the credits sooner.
Arg, don't go and mention something like that. Now people will want me to do it that way ;p This method could mean a longer input time for a shorter avi time.
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http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2652/TMNT-bigshortcut%28almost%29.fcm
So close to an amazing shortcut. Using the scrolling glitch here takes me from room 02 all the way to the end of room 17 (last room before the boss). This would save me over 8000 frames! The only problem is a end up in a "hole" that I can't get out of. I doubt I can get out but if there was a way to would skip most of lv4 so it is worth checking out.
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http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2662/TMNT%20magnet%20glitch.fcm
Another glitch involving the magnets of level 4. The turtle immediately falls through the floor into the screen below. In this .fcm the screen locks up when I get to the screen below but in my first attempt I was somehow able to fall through the roof and walk around. I just wasn't able to reproduce it.
EDIT: After a thorough beating in the head, I fixed the link.
I messed with the magnets and was able to play around on the lower floor.
I would have tried the ladder trick, but I wasn't sure how to execute it.
Dead end. :(
Don't expect anything interesting to happen in the movie after I fall through the ceiling, by the way... probably should have trimmed that off before I uploaded. Oops.
wow, how does that magnet trick work?
I'm don't think you understood what I was saying about the second level, before second ladder. There's a chainsaw guy on the ladder platform you have to kill, there's a platform just right of the platform the chainsaw guy is on. You didn't jump to this platform, but fell below it. I think it'd be faster to jump to it, then you could get the chainsaw guy with a suriken right away. Also fall down sooner and throw suriken while falling to get second hit on him.
For the water level clipping idea you said you'd hit the wall in the next screen, but the idea is you'll be in wall party on the next screen and thus further to the right, this well let you advance to the right faster.
Also I forget to mention about the current before the tunnel of seaweed. I think you swam up high to avoid the current from spawning. If you have the current in the next screen you can advance to the right much faster. Did you try getting the current spawn?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
I can't get that magnet trick to work, I want to try it on all the magnets.
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It apparently isn't only the magnet that causes it. Notice the pizza on top of it. In that vid, lag causes the pizza to not spawn until you are being sucked into the magnet. It appears just as you glitch off of the screen. I think those 3 factors must be present for it to happen. Perhaps it isn't pizza specifically but any type of spawn (including weapon drops) that causes it.
I tried doing the glitch at the end of room 2, got an item drop and had max enemies plus the two laser on screen, item would never go away. Tried in another room with a pizza, got 5 robots in there, the pizza flickered but wouldn't go away. I guess you need a magnet too.
I have you got it work in a different place?
Tried some stuff with the up+down air attack glitch. I found it can make go up higher to get items if your don or raph, but I couldn't get to let me jump up to higher ledges, seems like some sort of warp though should be possible with it since it lets you go higher to get items above you.
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Raph posing on an old magazine
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It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the
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Bisqwit wrote:
"seems like some sort of warp though should be possible with it since it lets you go higher to get items above you."
Well right after I wrote this I had an idea for a place to try this, and well, ureka, it worked!
the missiles in level 3, well you can warp through the platform to grab them as raph, I could get to work with don but well try some more.
#EDIT* seems only raph can do this, this also works for getting the ropes. You can get some pizzas in stage 4 too this way but only works with raph.
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holy crap, you are awsome :D
Both of those will be siginificant time savers
As for the "magnet glitch", I have not been able to recreate it in any place but the one on the .fcm. and it only works on the fcm when approaching from the right.
EDIT:
just a thought. There are several places where the scrolling glitch could be done except you can't get the turtle to jump high enough. Could using raph & the up+down glitch be used to get his y pos high enough to do the glitch?
EDIT2:
probably more of a long shot, but could this be used to boost the turtles y position up enough to make it possible to initiate the scrolling glitch on 1 tile width walls (with open spaces). Probably wishful thinking, but this would allow scrolling in just about every screen.
I had the same idea but it's really not possible to get conclusion results without frame advance. How do you use frame advance on this emu?
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FCEU? I forget what the default key is for frame advance but you can reconfigre it to whichever key is convenient for you under "map hotkeys".
Frame advance is pretty simple, pause the emulator. Hold down the keys you want to press, and then press the frame advance key.
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here it is. My first WIP of v2. I just got to the dam(n) section. I am 34 frames ahead of my first run.
Oh, and I figured out how drops work. 03D8 keep track of the enemies you have killed. When it gets to 24 you have a chance of a random drop. The counter resets when you exit a building or sewer. So there isn't a good place to get drops until the 2nd level, and probably not again until the technodrome.
I didn't figure out any of the randomization but it is because once you get the value of 24, it is very easy to manipulate the drop that you want. Everything you do affects it, and you have about a %50 chance of getting a drop.
Looks pretty good. After beating the chain saw guy in the second sewer could you do an upward attack to kill the jumping thing instead of a jumping downward attack?
Did you ever find out if attacking while landing saves frames? There's a lot of places where you could have attacked sooner later to kill an enemy to make so you were still swinging when you hit the ground. And when you hit the ground before jump across gap at end of stage 2, there's only the arch attack from an enemy on the screen.
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Spider-Waffle wrote:
Looks pretty good.
Thanks :D
After beating the chain saw guy in the second sewer could you do an upward attack to kill the jumping thing instead of a jumping downward attack?
I don't see how that would be faster or slower than the downward attack. But I am pretty sure you can't hit him with the upward one (that is what I tried first).
Did you ever find out if attacking while landing saves frames?
I tested that extensively and never found a spot where attacking saved frames. There is a 1 frame slowdown on landing regardless.
I think you hit your head on the platform above when do that jumping attack and it slows you down. In the previous TASes they were able to do an upward attack for the kill.
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Level 3 finished.
Please pick it apart :)
I did the raphael up+down trick to get the missles and die quicker. That moment just looks like a complete breaking of the game :) The only downside was that the creatively orchestrated death I used last time had to be removed :(
Total, I am 330 frames ahead.
Alright, this is looking a lot faster. Well I still question the jumping attack in level 1, as it slows you down since you hit your head. You still didn't do the clip over after getting the second bomb, I think you did the clip over on all the other parts of the water level where it would help except for after the second bomb. You should end the water level with raph, not mike, then you won't have to pause again for raph later. And then I wonder if you should die as mike or leo. If you die as leo you'll be raph who you'll need to change to in level 4. The question is if being raph instead of don will lose more time than a pause. Raph can kill the flying enemies in one hit reguardless of health and can kill fire guys with suriken + normal hit, and you can get surkin right away. The only place I see where raph might slow you down is right after getting the suriken, you won't be able kill the fire sock while jumping over the fire guy, and maybe the first fire guy after the sewer if raph's reach isn't long enough, other than that though I think raph will be fine with the suriken. The second bulldozer that you face can be avoided if you move below it at the right time, it will just pass above you. Did you ever find out if facing the opposite way when falling down ladders helps? There's one ladder where that could have been used in the building after the sewer.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
